balmainforever
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I loved Super Impose as a horse, but no way is he in the same league as Vain, Rising Fast or Dulcify
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GOAT Horses and/or Performances
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iluvparis
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Probably Tier 2.5 to be honest. Happy to chuck him in 2 given he would have walked in a third Cox Plate had he stayed in Oz.
iluvparis
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BC won over as many distance as the best ever - and did so in the strongest country for that particular division worldwide.
Also she's a she.
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All I'll say about the longevity and distance arguments is Usain Bolt is a far better athlete than Michael Phelps.
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Madness
iluvparis
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Tier One
Phar Lap
Black Caviar
Tier Two
Kingston Town
Tulloch
Carbine
Bernborough
Makybe Diva
So You Think
Peter Pan
Tier Three
Might and Power
Manikato
Ajax
Wakeful
Vain
Tier Four
Rising Fast
Todman
Sunline
Northerly
Galilee
Tobin Bronze
Dulcify
Sky High
Tier Five
Saintly
Octagonal
Lohnro
Edits: SYT +1, Vain +1, Sky High -1, Peter Pan added, Saintly and Octagonal dropped to a 5th tier, Lohnro added.
I'm sure there a few who we'll want added to the 5th tier now...
Phar Lap
Black Caviar
Tier Two
Kingston Town
Tulloch
Carbine
Bernborough
Makybe Diva
So You Think
Peter Pan
Tier Three
Might and Power
Manikato
Ajax
Wakeful
Vain
Tier Four
Rising Fast
Todman
Sunline
Northerly
Galilee
Tobin Bronze
Dulcify
Sky High
Tier Five
Saintly
Octagonal
Lohnro
Edits: SYT +1, Vain +1, Sky High -1, Peter Pan added, Saintly and Octagonal dropped to a 5th tier, Lohnro added.
I'm sure there a few who we'll want added to the 5th tier now...
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How can Bernborough be in tier two when he hasnt won any of the major races
By that logic how can BC be in tier one
Been following nags since 1987.
Best 5 australian in my lifetime are:
Black Caviar
Rubiton
Saintly
Vo Rogue
Maykbe Diva
Best 5 australian in my lifetime are:
Black Caviar
Rubiton
Saintly
Vo Rogue
Maykbe Diva
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Caviar was a sprinter that won all the best sprinting races more than once. This horse was winning Caulfield stakes and such, races that come hand in hand with starts at the big three for example
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I will give you the reason why Saintly is not as good as Vo Rogue. Lets Elope, Naturalism, and even Surfers Paradise and horses of that era.
The horse to take a line through all this is Mahoganag (sorry Mahogany) and Durbridge.
Durbridge raced at his peak against all the good 1990 horses and finished just behind them all the time. Then they all retired at the same time and and Durbridge dominated as a 7 year old and his only postilion was Mahogany who couldn't get near him. Mahogany was the equal of Octaganag (sorry Octagonal) going by the Cox plate where they met, and Ogtagonag was the equal of Saintly and Filante.
Thats why i rate the era of the 1990s much better than the so called classic crop of 1995 1996.
I forgot about Rubiton.. he was a goody, but raced against nothing. loved him all the same.
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if a horse gets rated american horse of the year in an era where American races where thriving i think he deserves to go in there somewhere
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_(horse)
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There is a list of the greatest 50 horses which might prove a fair guide for this exercise
1. Carbine
2. Tulloch
3. Phar Lap
4. Kingston Town
5. Wakeful
6. Bernborough
7. Black Caviar
8. Ajax
9. Manikato
10. Makybe Diva
——————————————
11. Vain
12. Rising Fast
13. Peter Pan
14. Malua
15. Sunline
16. Todman
17. Might And Power
18. Tobin Bronze
19. Gloaming
20. Poseidon
——————————————
21. So You Think
22. Galilee
22. Gunsynd
24. Shannon
25. Sky High
26. Chatham
27. Crisp
28. The Barb
29. Eurythmic
29. Grand Flaneur
—————————————–
31. Super Impose
32. Redcraze
33. Tranquil Star
34. Dulcify
35. Northerly
36. Octagonal
37. Saintly
38. Surround
39. Amounis
40. Better Loosen Up
——————————————-
41. Flight
42. Vo Rogue
43. Heroic
43. Wenona Girl
45. Dalray
46. Delta
47. Comic Court
47. Strawberry Road
49 Lohnro
50. Takeover Target 9
Some horses missing like Sobar Light Fingers and a few others
1. Carbine
2. Tulloch
3. Phar Lap
4. Kingston Town
5. Wakeful
6. Bernborough
7. Black Caviar
8. Ajax
9. Manikato
10. Makybe Diva
——————————————
11. Vain
12. Rising Fast
13. Peter Pan
14. Malua
15. Sunline
16. Todman
17. Might And Power
18. Tobin Bronze
19. Gloaming
20. Poseidon
——————————————
21. So You Think
22. Galilee
22. Gunsynd
24. Shannon
25. Sky High
26. Chatham
27. Crisp
28. The Barb
29. Eurythmic
29. Grand Flaneur
—————————————–
31. Super Impose
32. Redcraze
33. Tranquil Star
34. Dulcify
35. Northerly
36. Octagonal
37. Saintly
38. Surround
39. Amounis
40. Better Loosen Up
——————————————-
41. Flight
42. Vo Rogue
43. Heroic
43. Wenona Girl
45. Dalray
46. Delta
47. Comic Court
47. Strawberry Road
49 Lohnro
50. Takeover Target 9
Some horses missing like Sobar Light Fingers and a few others
iluvparis
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Stop reading when BC wasn't even in the top 5
Also Comic Court only two places above Lohncat
Plz
Also Comic Court only two places above Lohncat
Plz
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thats not my list. i dont agree with it either. its a list of horses that could be considered
Have an issue with people claiming definitive answers about horses they never saw race.
HTF would anyone know how good The Barb or Malua was?
Opinions based on race records are fine but to even compare horses I saw live in the 80's to current day is pointless.
Everything is different, tracks, bias, feed, opposition, rules.
Unless you were aware of the standard of opposition, its a guess.
seth
HTF would anyone know how good The Barb or Malua was?
Opinions based on race records are fine but to even compare horses I saw live in the 80's to current day is pointless.
Everything is different, tracks, bias, feed, opposition, rules.
Unless you were aware of the standard of opposition, its a guess.
seth
iluvparis
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Even though there is
On this, he got given something like 68kg in the Caulfield Cup and had a terrible run. Was then short favourite for the Melbourne Cup but broke down in the Mackinnon
iluvparis
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That's another good point that the difference between our current handicap and those in Europe are that the latter are still genuine handicaps. Most of our handicaps are just like qualities these days - and the Diva was thrown into her third cup by historical standards (look at the weight jumps Peter Pan our Phar Lap copped).
For example - if Frankel had run in the Royal Hunt Cup - which is the famous straight mile handicap at Royal Ascot - he would have been topweight with 78.5kg compared to the winners 59.5 (the top weight carried 62.5).
For example - if Frankel had run in the Royal Hunt Cup - which is the famous straight mile handicap at Royal Ascot - he would have been topweight with 78.5kg compared to the winners 59.5 (the top weight carried 62.5).
Is Phar Laps record that special?
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