Going Forward (The Future)

[Blacky]

On replay he couldnt even out run roughead

We played too many sore/injured players

Yep. We limped into a GF

The hysteria is bewildering

 

[The King!]

Yep. We limped into a GF

The hysteria is bewildering

Problem is people already doubted Parker in a big game, so now thats twice, similar for Tippett who never regained fitness


Despite all this we should of won anyway

 

[miggs]

Yeah gotta admit that was a clanger from caesar88 surely you weren't serious?

 

[Neverwas]

Do you think Oriordan (sp??) is up to it. He has speed ...

Yep!

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[Neverwas]

George Hewett will improve a lot next year I feel - he was a bit down on form over the last month, but he is still very young and has a lot of upside. I wonder where his future lies in the team - he is a confidence player, whose best football in ressies was generally on the ball. Maybe he will get some time in midfield next year at AFL level to see if he can handle it.

George is still growing and will be stronger and fitter next year. It's also notable that unlike Heeney and Mills he didn't need a break during the year. Reckon he'll be playing at another level in 2017.

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[Neverwas]

cant kick over a jam tin

Saw him kick several goals from about 60m in the ressies.

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[Neverwas]

True, but you do have to be in it to win it and our list isn not the Titanic like Hawthorn.
I'm supremely confident that whoever replaces Mitchell should he decide to leave will play in more grand finals going forward than he will.

He stood up in the 2012 GF and he was killing it in the Freo final last year and would have won us the game if not injured. He has a good record in big games and is defenitely no proven failure.

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[Tuco]

I'm hoping Talia puts in a cracking preseason and wins back the group with his work ethic.

Could be an important cog for us next year.

 

[mcs095]

George is still growing and will be stronger and fitter next year. It's also notable that unlike Heeney and Mills he didn't need a break during the year. Reckon he'll be playing at another level in 2017.

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I had seen a lot of him in reserves in 2015 where he came on really quickly (indeed one game down here in Canberra he was absolutely immense), so there is huge potential for improvement. He is still only 20 and will only get better. You only have to see the improvement in Lloyd this year to see what some more experience can do to help a player improve - I have little doubt that George will take a lot from this year and improve significant again going into 2017.

The potential improvement available in so many of the younger guys (Aliir, Hewett, Naismith, Mills, Heeney, Papley) shows we still have huge upside to improve a lot in 2017 - and that's without the thought of hopefully (big hopefully there) the successful return of Sam Reid, and you never know with AJ, nor any trades/draft picks that may surprise.

 

[J_Moore]

What we need is a classy kick in the midfield.

The guy I thought was unlucky to not get the norm smith was bontempelli. He was a class above everyone else in the middle with how he used it.

He's not fast. He's not Kennedy-esque strong. He's not an amazing outside runner. But he hits targets under extreme pressure. The only guys who look capable of doing that for us are mills or Heeney. They need to do it from next year.

Jesus, look at that kicking. Accurate and direct.

Lloyd bloody loved it.

Interestingly, most of those are 'uncontested' kicks, mid-chain, though I suspect his agility and smart movement helps make them uncontested.
That's what we need around the packs, and what Hannebery, despite his fitness and courage, isn't quite giving us.

Could Mills? I reckon he's more likely than Heeney, tbh.

 

[CD__]

Could Mills? I reckon he's more likely than Heeney, tbh.

Think they're both capable, but at this (very early) stage of their careers I'd say Mills might have better vision and more willingness to pull the trigger on those corridor kicks.

 

[J_Moore]

Think they're both capable, but at this (very early) stage of their careers I'd say Mills might have better vision and more willingness to pull the trigger on those corridor kicks.

Bont's very early stage, too. I reckon if you've got that ability, you've got it early.

 

[CD__]

Bont's very early stage, too. I reckon if you've got that ability, you've got it early.

Yeh he is but he's been exposed to significantly more midfield time than Heeney and Mills put together. Neither of them may ever be able to do what the Bont does but very few keen, Pendlebury is the only other obvious off the top of my head.

 

[hybrid o3]

Do we think it's likely that Mills will play in the midfield more next year?


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[RW]

The positive from the loss (if there is one) is that we now know exactly what we need to do to improve - since the things that let us down on the big day were things which have already been spoken about on the board, for the most part:

1) Lack of pace - quick sides have been our Achilles this year, no surprise that Johannisen carved us up on the day.
2) Our defence struggles when the ball hits the deck - they have had a super year, but unfortunately we came up against a side that could exploit this weakness.
3) Run from the back half - I'm not sure how you measure dare as a stat, but the good sides have to be able to turn defence into attack. Aliir and Jones will help.
4) Forward structure - I actually think this has improved from last year but shockers from Richards, McGlynn and Rohan didn't help.
5) Heart - As per SouthSwans' rant. Too much emphasis on 'professionalism' and 'knowing what is required'. This might win you a lot of home and away games but grand finals like that are won on heart and playing the game like it is your last. We should know that from 2005 and 2012.

 

[melbournehammer]

Bit over the unmeasurable heart statistic. I know you've watched the game again. The period before picken kicked the goal to make them 7 points up in the last was played at the extreme of endeavour with the maximum of heart. the problem was we had no way of retaining possession and some of our kicks (nick smith and tom papley im looking at you) were just horrible.

I think skills, dare and exhaustion were the problems when the game was in the balance. We had lots of desperation and heart.

 

[RW]

Bit over the unmeasurable heart statistic. I know you've watched the game again. The period before picken kicked the goal to make them 7 points up in the last was played at the extreme of endeavour with the maximum of heart. the problem was we had no way of retaining possession and some of our kicks (nick smith and tom papley im looking at you) were just horrible.

I think skills, dare and exhaustion were the problems when the game was in the balance. We had lots of desperation and heart.

That's a fair comment. Watching the replay the Dogs played like men possessed at times so not sure if we could have kept up with them anyway.

 

[The King!]

Jesus, look at that kicking. Accurate and direct.

Lloyd bloody loved it.

Interestingly, most of those are 'uncontested' kicks, mid-chain, though I suspect his agility and smart movement helps make them uncontested.
That's what we need around the packs, and what Hannebery, despite his fitness and courage, isn't quite giving us.

Could Mills? I reckon he's more likely than Heeney, tbh.

is there a similar graph for swans mids?

 

[caesar88]

Yeah gotta admit that was a clanger from caesar88 surely you weren't serious?

I was referring to one game only. Obviously I would not want our best players in the reserves but who knows maybe for round one it might be the kick up the ass Horse needs to give. It would just set the tone for the season and hopefully make our boys a bit more ruthless. I recall Clarkson being called crazy when he sent Roughead to the reserves a few years back.

 

[miggs]

I was referring to one game only. Obviously I would not want our best players in the reserves but who knows maybe for round one it might be the kick up the ass Horse needs to give. It would just set the tone for the season and hopefully make our boys a bit more ruthless. I recall Clarkson being called crazy when he sent Roughead to the reserves a few years back.

you feeling ok? that post was under 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 words long

 

[caesar88]

you feeling ok? that post was under 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 words long

It's my day off. My finer works send everyone into meltdown

 

[bedford]

you feeling ok? that post was under 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 words long

Your not wrong, can't believe it. Hanners in the ressies, god help us. Not going to waste capitals on this one.

 

[Mick Oxlong]

is there a similar graph for swans mids?

 

[J_Moore]

is there a similar graph for swans mids?

Champion Data would have one. But they only release one for the best-rated player in each game, generally.

If you tweeted at @AFLPlayerRating asking for a specific player you might get one, I reckon. I've seen them fulfil a few punter's requests over the season.

 

[Kiama Chris]

t the risk of torching the thread I'd like to think about the way forward:
1) Captaincy - Macca needs to step down if he doesn't retire. We lacked direction quite a bit in the heat of the GF. It's tough to ask someone who spends all their time in the engine room like JPK or Parker to provide the leadership. Reg has been a special this year in the backs. Lots of opinions on this one. Mills in 2 years.
2) Preseason - a lot of guys who were a bit spuddy in the ressies last year really stepped up. Whatever we did, do it again
3) Gameplan - take a look at what the Dogs did in their last three games. Look at HOW they beat those teams, not just us. They used a lot of lateral running as well as ball movement and pulled our midfield defence apart.
4) Cattle - another poster (sorry) has mentioned the need for a few bigger bodies in midfield. Couldn't agree more. Can/should Rampe make the switch? In any case we should not be looking at mids under about 85kg. With the capacity to build big tanks. Another young ruckman to come up behind the existing group. Another leading forward if we can't use X that way. First few games he really made a difference. Do we really need another HBF or KPD? Newman is coming through. We're not a million miles off.
5) Experience - the young guys will have benefited from this experience. They need to keep their enthusiasm. This was NOT a replay of 2014 when we shat ourselves.
6) That said, we have shown a shortage of resilience in the face of aggressive pressure. If I knew how to fix that I could make my fortune but there needs to be a real coaching focus on it. You play as you train.