Opinion Going the tank

[Grand Uncle Horace]

No. (You need to bribe harder... I accept cash, money transfer, chocolate, beer...)

Instead... how about you give some sound logical reasoning and debate (i.e. your opinion) as to why you believe the premise of this thread is ridiculous/crap?

Ya ratbag GtG! You are suckering me into playing in this fetid, poisoned pond.

Tanking for a draft position is a cyanide laced poisoned chalice. Look at the Clubs who did this. Carlton and Melbourne, (Richmond before their unrelated recovery) are ghosted and marked by the indelible stain of disgrace. Both are teams continue to yap at the heels of history.

When we were a rubbish team in the early 90s we received (not earned) three high picks from memory. How did our selections of Rocca, Gaspar and Grant help our Club? As it turned out none were champs and one ended up in legal trouble for being an animal.

If there is such a thing as a "bloods culture" (and I subscribe to the idea there is), it means the Club from from boot studder, through the coaches and the players tries their utmost at all times.

I am no one eyed fan of Horse but I do not believe for a moment he would consider selections or game day moves that do not (in his view) enhance our chances of winning.

I detest that we are losing and I expect any person connected with the Club would be similarly appalled. It is very difficult to break a culture of losing and that is a challenge for the Club at the moment.

Any kid who is picked in the first round has a lot of talent. We have picked up some wonderful champs of our Club who were late round picks (hi there Goodesy) or came to us via the Rookie draft. Sure I would like a Walsh or a Rowell in our colours but it would be pointless and self defeating if they came via tanking. Whether we get pick 3 or 7 we will get a good player, if we select well.

For me tanking is corrosive of all the good things I love about sport and our Club. Tanking is at the deepest basement of sport. It is a trap door away from systematic use of PEDs.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I think it's more the title of the thread rather than it's contents that I find offensive.

Nothing wrong with discussing the silver lining of a down season.

And I guess, although I personally find it distasteful, it's possibly legitimate to even hope for further losses if the benefits of that silver lining outweigh the shorter term disappointment.

But the suggestion that our club deliberately set out to lose games in order to gain draft picks which is illegal, immoral, unsportsmanlike and against everything our proud club stands for simply fills many of us with disgust.

So, given that the thread title amounts to "Incitement to Engage in Match Fixing" which is a crime, it would be wise for Mods to change the title and perhaps to watch carefully the comments that are made in this thread.

Absolutely spot on BfB, down to your comments about the title which I registered soon after it was first posted.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

I can most certainly see where the terminology rubs some the wrong way (me included)... The idea we would support not trying to win and deliberately "match fix" is disgusting to me. It is one of the most insulting premises I think I've read on here for a while... And I've read some pretty pathetic stuff.

"Going the tank" sounds dirty. It sounds sinister. It sounds nothing like the values our club has found success with... However... it is (unfortunately) a term which encompasses an obviously often-used strategy within the competition which doesn't seem to break any rules. Things such as clubs "experimenting" with positions, structures, line-ups (with a true view that the "Win" isn't important) has been happening for as long as the draft system has been in place... And "tanking" is the common term utilised in describing such strategies (even when it is within the rules).

So, while I (like you) despise the idea we aren't giving 100% &/or supporting a loser mentality... I also can see how "going the tank" is the common catch-cry of those clubs trying to plan ahead and try things they otherwise wouldn't had finals been in the frame... And how that strategy doesn't seem to be against the current AFL rules at all (given how common a strategy it has become).

Whilst I understand your response, offence has now shifted in meaning from "objective" to "subjective", with the priority being how a term or phrase is understood, rather than intended.

So even leaving aside the legalities, which I stand by, if enough people are offended by the expression, should it not be avoided?

And I don't think there's much doubt about Sth Melb Dimmies meaning in the post above mine.

PS: You did specifically ask for this.

 

[SGBeach]

So, while I (like you) despise the idea we aren't giving 100% &/or supporting a loser mentality..

Thats the thing... the players are giving 100%. No-one is trying to lose.. The Swans culture still stands tall and proud.

 

[barry fu]

BFB and B52 are Bang on!

We all know other teams mindless minions trawl through these threads.
All having great access to social media, via The World Wide Web, and these things can spread like witless wildfire.
As seen in the collingwood betting scandal saga.

I saw it somewhere, it must be fair dinkum....
Nah me mate said so, his sauce said so....

Do we really want our club and chair, to come out and clear the air, as Inward Edward Everywhere had to?

Gamble responsibly.

 

[Olian]

It's irrational for the Swans to be aiming to win games at this point.

I'd argue none of the teams in the bottom 5 aren't aiming to win games at the moment, as poor performance is actually rewarded in the current AFL boom/bust lifecycle.

The absolute best outcome is as follows:

- Pick a team on Thursday to be non-competitive. Play the kids, play guns out of position, give the veterans some send-off games.
- Have a brave, competitive loss to give the fans hope next season.
- Get a massively improved draft position
-
-
-
- Profit

Well Carlton and St Kilda both have care taker coaches and are in the lower rungs of the table. I’d argue they are trying to win.
Even the Suns were two minutes from knocking off the Bombers.

The belief that by getting an unknown 18 year old will turn around the clubs fortunes seems a high risk.
I hope we win the next two games as that is the best outcome and that Gold Coast get a priority pick.

A clubs culture is built on trying to win games not losing games in the hope of gaining access to a better draft pick.

 

[GotTheGoodes]

Ya ratbag GtG! You are suckering me into playing in this fetid, poisoned pond.

Tanking for a draft position is a cyanide laced poisoned chalice. Look at the Clubs who did this. Carlton and Melbourne, (Richmond before their unrelated recovery) are ghosted and marked by the indelible stain of disgrace. Both are teams continue to yap at the heels of history.

When we were a rubbish team in the early 90s we received (not earned) three high picks from memory. How did our selections of Rocca, Gaspar and Grant help our Club? As it turned out none were champs and one ended up in legal trouble for being an animal.

If there is such a thing as a "bloods culture" (and I subscribe to the idea there is), it means the Club from from boot studder, through the coaches and the players tries their utmost at all times.

I am no one eyed fan of Horse but I do not believe for a moment he would consider selections or game day moves that do not (in his view) enhance our chances of winning.

I detest that we are losing and I expect any person connected with the Club would be similarly appalled. It is very difficult to break a culture of losing and that is a challenge for the Club at the moment.

Any kid who is picked in the first round has a lot of talent. We have picked up some wonderful champs of our Club who were late round picks (hi there Goodesy) or came to us via the Rookie draft. Sure I would like a Walsh or a Rowell in our colours but it would be pointless and self defeating if they came via tanking. Whether we get pick 3 or 7 we will get a good player, if we select well.

For me tanking is corrosive of all the good things I love about sport and our Club. Tanking is at the deepest basement of sport. It is a trap door away from systematic use of PEDs.

I completely & thouroughly agree with you 110%.

Brilliant post mate.

 

[GotTheGoodes]

Thats the thing... the players are giving 100%. No-one is trying to lose.. The Swans culture still stands tall and proud.

And long may that continue.

 

[scaryness]

Well Carlton and St Kilda both have care taker coaches and are in the lower rungs of the table. I’d argue they are trying to win.
Even the Suns were two minutes from knocking off the Bombers.

The belief that by getting an unknown 18 year old will turn around the clubs fortunes seems a high risk.
I hope we win the next two games as that is the best outcome and that Gold Coast get a priority pick.

A clubs culture is built on trying to win games not losing games in the hope of gaining access to a better draft pick.

Little bit different as Brett Ratten wants a job, and Carlton don't have their draft pick so they actually have no incentive to lose.

Horse has his job and Swans have their draft pick.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Little bit different as Brett Ratten wants a job, and Carlton don't have their draft pick so they actually have no incentive to lose.

Horse has his job and Swans have their draft pick.

So 1 + 1 = 8?

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

You guys are all assuming that if we get Pick #2 then we’d use it.

Can’t you see the currency in swapping that for a legit inside mid, which we’re desperate for?

 

[The King!]

You guys are all assuming that if we get Pick #2 then we’d use it.

Can’t you see the currency in swapping that for a legit inside mid, which we’re desperate for?

why would a legit inside mid come to a side that can’t decide if it’s rebuilding or not

 

[LukeParkerno1]

You guys are all assuming that if we get Pick #2 then we’d use it.

Can’t you see the currency in swapping that for a legit inside mid, which we’re desperate for?

The top 2(3) selections are all mids we are crying out for. If we don’t use the pick better be a very good player (and not some defender!)

 

[ashep]

As others have said, happy to give some veterans a rest and play the kids for experience, but once you cross the line, it's 100% effort.

If we've got a kick after the siren to win it, I'll be praying it goes through, draft implications be damned.

 

[Jewelsbon]

As others have said, happy to give some veterans a rest and play the kids for experience, but once you cross the line, it's 100% effort.

If we've got a kick after the siren to win it, I'll be praying it goes through, draft implications be damned.

Your last paragraph is the difference between tanking and doing the best thing for the next season and for the players health.
I can live with playing kids, getting the older players off to surgery early etc, but all selected players not giving 100% is simply disgraceful and unacceptable.

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

Your last paragraph is the difference between tanking and doing the best thing for the next season and for the players health.
I can live with playing kids, getting the older players off to surgery early etc, but all selected players not giving 100% is simply disgraceful and unacceptable.

This is exactly my point. Jorse is tanking masterfully at the selection committee and through player position.

I’m never going to cheer for poor player effort.

But by setting the swans up for a loss on Thursday night; and setting us up for brave losing performances, it’s the most rational approach for a coach with a new 4 year runway.

Also.

Consider we’ve got a $3.9m hole in the salary cap which will be filled be either an old fat slow Bud, or nothing.

We need the best, cheap kids we can get, as soon as possible.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

This is exactly my point. Jorse is tanking masterfully at the selection committee and through player position.

I’m never going to cheer for poor player effort.

But by setting the swans up for a loss on Thursday night; and setting us up for brave losing performances, it’s the most rational approach for a coach with a new 4 year runway.

Also.

Consider we’ve got a $3.9m hole in the salary cap which will be filled be either an old fat slow Bud, or nothing.

We need the best, cheap kids we can get, as soon as possible.

Geezus you talk s**t.

 

[Tedeski]

We have one win left in us.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

We have one win left in us.

C'mon Ted... I count two comprehensive wins!

 

[The King!]

This is exactly my point. Jorse is tanking masterfully at the selection committee and through player position.

I’m never going to cheer for poor player effort.

But by setting the swans up for a loss on Thursday night; and setting us up for brave losing performances, it’s the most rational approach for a coach with a new 4 year runway.

Also.

Consider we’ve got a $3.9m hole in the salary cap which will be filled be either an old fat slow Bud, or nothing.

We need the best, cheap kids we can get, as soon as possible.

Where’s 3.9 million from?

 

[Olian]

Where’s 3.9 million from?

I think they are referring to the last 3 years of his contract. The last year of his contract is still a $1m. So we should be able to afford a decent player to fill the gap.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I think they are referring to the last 3 years of his contract. The last year of his contract is still a $1m. So we should be able to afford a decent player to fill the gap.

Think there may be a marketing component in there as well that is outside the cap.

People who complain about his contract may have forgotten he was unders in the early years of the contract. There is no doubt in my mind that Buddy has been the best buy we have made since Plugger.

 

[Corpuscles]

Just curious...

How would you experts here detect tanking? Even if, it was intended?

Would it be
Slammed in the centre clearances?
Atrocious missed shots at goal?
Silly fumbly handballs resulting in turnover?
Repetitive poor kicks turnover?

etc etc

Welcome to the consistent end of 2019.

On the other hand if McLean (Knoll or Amartey or whoever) win over Gawn and their midfield!
You know Smash 'em in clearances, then I reckon you'll be whinging about cheated out of pick 2 or 3?
Or heralding the new ruck messiah?

Go the Dees!

 

[RW]

If the ladder positions stay as they are, and the Suns get the priority pick that they want, then I believe we will get pick #5.

I'd be happy with that, as our last pick #5 turned out pretty well.

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

I think they are referring to the last 3 years of his contract. The last year of his contract is still a $1m. So we should be able to afford a decent player to fill the gap.

No. If Buddy doesn't play in any of the last few years of his contract, we still take the hit on the salary cap. So our total cap is effectively reduced by the amount due to Bud that year.

There's no way we can afford to buy in other guns unless you start playing with allocations from McVeigh, Smith, Reg, etc.