Preview Gold Coast vs Essendon, Carrara, Saturday 14/07/18 @ 7:25 PM

Who will have more handballs?


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katana

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what does baguley have to do to be dropped? i'd love to know. he's comically bad. man they invented a whole bullshit role of 'forward without any attacking asset' just to keep him in the team. meanwhile, long runs around picks up almost 20 touches, shows some class in his first game in 2 years and gets shoved out straight away. and all this is while the team is out of finals contention.

worsfold really doesn't do himself many favours.
 

DapperJong

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what does baguley have to do to be dropped? i'd love to know. he's comically bad. man they invented a whole bullshit role of 'forward without any attacking asset' just to keep him in the team. meanwhile, long runs around picks up almost 20 touches, shows some class in his first game in 2 years and gets shoved out straight away. and all this is while the team is out of finals contention.

worsfold really doesn't do himself many favours.

Bag 13 touches and a goal, Long 17 touches. Really not that far apart.
 
There is a fascination with youth on here.

I get that some want form to be rewarded earlier but we also hang it on the club when a young player comes in and is dropped shortly after.

There is a large section of posters who want the kids to get a free ride where senior players must be used as last resort
Anything outside this is apparently a double standard and doesn't give the kids a fair go.

Basically they aspire to for us to become the Dees from the time they were regularly were flogged by around 100

Let’s pick the best team available and then once we are no chance for finals it is open slather on playing the kids? Whatdoyareckin?

I'd prefer the kids earn their spot and learn what it takes to win, rather than learn how to get flogged each week.
 

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DapperJong

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and the stats don't lie!

even on that pointless comparison, it's still about 30% more of the ball. also one guy has played 100 games and is 31. which is kinda relevant i feel

Pointless hey? I guess stats don't grind axes.
 

calyam

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Woosh hinted at it earlier in the year, the players and coaches sat down and established a plan for how they werw going to approach this year. This hirearchy structure has been implememted so each player knows where they fit (its also not uncommon).

Players at football clubs have credits, they have done for 100 years. Just because there is not immediate change doesnt mean that players arent moving up and down within this structure.
Green is one that appears to have lost his place and langford one that has earnt his. Coaches may be asking for certain things to be demonstrated and we arent privy to the circumstances surrounding players (francis being one).

Dont torture yourself over the selections otherwise you are going to resent the club and not enjoy games on the weekend if you are focusing solely on who you want out there.

An underlying depth chart, whether stated implicitly or explicitly, would be pretty common across AFL clubs. What likely differs is the fluidity of that depth chart or hierarchy.

There is some evidence that Essendon's hierarchy is too rigid. Players have credits but poor performance doesn't seem to erode those credits as fast as could reasonably be expected.

Take Travis Colyer, for example, he has been injured for much of the season. He played a few average VFL games (3 games, 18 disposals and 1 goal a game) and then was rushed back into the seniors as though he was a star or structurally important player. In doing so he leapfrogged a number of better performed players who, due to youth, sit lower on the hierarchy that has been created. He comes into the senior team and is immediately a liability, performing at a level that is well below AFL-standard. Colyer is still consuming credits from all the way back in 2015.

Or another example: Mark Baguley. His form early in the season was dreadful and his performance against Collingwood on Anzac Day was among the worst I've seen from an Essendon player. He was a small defender who had lost the ability to defend anyone. In this case we tossed this hierarchy out the window to protect a player who was no longer capable of playing consistent AFL football. Since then Baguley has played a few good games (Cats and Giants being the highlights) but has otherwise performed about as well as you'd expect from a 31-year old who has little to offer but effort. His back-to-back performances against West Coast and North Melbourne arguably tested the depths of that earlier Collingwood game. If he was 10-years younger he would have been dropped immediately after even one of those performances but Baguley continues to chew up credits generated back in 2016.

Or Josh Green. Statistically there was evidence that he was among the worst players in the league over the second half of last season. His impact measures were below what you'd expect from a raw 18-year old kid who is not yet ready for senior footy. Yet he was, until recently, basically guaranteed a spot in the best-22. Had any young footballer been playing at that level they would have been dropped almost immediately and deservedly so.

The point isn't that youth should always play or that a players track record at the highest level shouldn't matter. It is simply that the standards applied to younger players and borderline often sub-standard older players are so wildly different. Why is someone like Colyer rushed back to the seniors? Why is Baguley safe from criticism? Why is Green still on an AFL list? Why is Langford required to do so much more to justify selection than someone like Myers despite broadly similar performance at AFL and VFL level?

The reality is that Essendon hasn't achieved anything in 15-years. A sizable number of our senior players who are protected from scrutiny, who are effectively guaranteed a spot in the team unless they are injured, have never achieved squat. A rigid depth-chart undermines competition and success. We shouldn't become Melbourne, getting rid of all senior players and just playing youth, but there is also little value to the Essendon approach either. Selecting Baguley or Colyer or Green doesn't help us win games. Selecting younger players performing well at VFL level in their place won't lose us any games. But at least the latter group might have a future at AFL level and aren't simply cashing a pay check.
 
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Sep 28, 2007
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There is a large section of posters who want the kids to get a free ride where senior players must be used as last resort
Anything outside this is apparently a double standard and doesn't give the kids a fair go.

Basically they aspire to for us to become the Dees from the time they were regularly were flogged by around 100



I'd prefer the kids earn their spot and learn what it takes to win, rather than learn how to get flogged each week.
You don't think there might be a middle ground somewhere?
 
You don't think there might be a middle ground somewhere?
What I posted was the middle ground, with kids earning games and getting to play.
Of course it's not taken that way by the "Waaah, why aren't we tanking?" brigade. (No I'm not including you in that group)
 
I realise it’s rudimentary and omg another spreadsheet but does anyone ever look at the second page of the Essendon List spreadsheet ‘2018 (by role)’ (that tracks selections, injuries, omits, emergencies, rests)? It’s all about the hierarchy and that’s been reasonably clear at least since Woosha was signed up to coach us.

Fact of the matter is someone has to play in the 22, and a bunch ton of players are injured or simply not ready. Of the forwards, the only ones not getting a game at the moment are Daniher (injured), Stewart, Stringer (injured), Laverde (returning from injury), Begley (injured), Houlahan (rested), Merrett and Green. So if you pull Baguley or Colyer out, one of Merrett and Green are next cabs off the rank, most likely.

Of the midfielders, Fantasia is also most likely playing more forward this week just so we don’t have to use Merrett or Green. Mutch didn’t play at either level last week, Clarke can’t kick, let alone goals. Mynott is not known as a forward, never played it at VFL level as far as I can recall, so to throw him in as an AFL forward is probably going to scare the bejeezers out of him. The last option here is Jake Long, whom everyone expected to be delisted after last week at least going by his melt-riddled player thread.

The last four options are KPDs, Hartley, Zerk-Thatcher (rested), Francis and Ridley (who stand 198, 195, 193 and 192cm respectively). (Ambrose, Gleeson and Redman are injured.) Francis’ situation is thoroughly explained in his player thread, Ridley has been playing defence all year and recently returned to the VFL after a knee injury that saw him miss three games.

So basically we’re down to Merrett, Green, Mutch, Clarke, Mynott, Hartley and Ridley. Most of them hardly count as forwards and certainly don’t count as small forwards.
 

BrunoV

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There is a fascination with youth on here.

I get that some want form to be rewarded earlier but we also hang it on the club when a young player comes in and is dropped shortly after.
We just see the ommitted next to their name we dont see the fatigue, physical toll, personal problems, not playing role during structure, not following instructions or just not ready that the club monitors.

No the club is not infallible, yes coaches make errors and have favourites, but they also have access to much more data than we do to make decisions.
So when the club does something i dont understand instead of take the position they have made an error and my way is right i take the position that there must be some bit of imformation i dont have. That seems the most logical stance to take.



Can't do it. Won't do it.

Maybe if the group wins a flag but not sitting well outside the 8 with a percentage of less than 100 while giving games to crap players and continually making a mockery of objective 'selection integrity'.

Worrying about what coaches know when their decisions seem to fly in the face of common sense is just excusing them for incompetence.

It's really up to Daniher and a few others again to make everyone else look good.
 
Can't do it. Won't do it.

Maybe if the group wins a flag but not sitting well outside the 8 with a percentage of less than 100 while giving games to crap players and continually making a mockery of objective 'selection integrity'.

Worrying about what coaches know when their decisions seem to fly in the face of common sense is just excusing them for incompetence.

It's really up to Daniher and a few others again to make everyone else look good.
*yawn*
 

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Can't do it. Won't do it.

Maybe if the group wins a flag but not sitting well outside the 8 with a percentage of less than 100 while giving games to crap players and continually making a mockery of objective 'selection integrity'.

Worrying about what coaches know when their decisions seem to fly in the face of common sense is just excusing them for incompetence.

It's really up to Daniher and a few others again to make everyone else look good.

But im not entirely sure what you want out of them?
We had a horrendous start to the year and probably picked the worst year to put ourselves so far back (it being so even).
But these crap players have been doing very well the past 6-8 rounds with everyone on the same page. Putting together one of the more consistent blocks of form and gamestyle in a number of years.
We have played youth all year and given people a crack be it through injury or form.
Ridley went out with injury but was also starting to fade.
Clarke had a poor game and was dropped to work on his craft but was rewarded for his form.
Redman would still be in the team except injury.
Francis there are many other reasons why he isnt in the senior team just yet.
Guelfi-playing
Langford- broke the door down and is in the team and is performing.
Long rewarded with a game on the big stage, dropped for the better player in that position.
Laverde - injuries and poor form.

What is so wrong with this team?
This "flys in the face of common sense" you speak of sounds eerily like "what i want to happen"

We have a pretty good setup in the lower league that is performing well and developing. There is nothing wrong with developing at a lower level. Green has lost his place in the team, Bags was moved forward to set standards because he is a heart and soul type player and gives the effort the coaching group wanted the rest of the team to give in that first quarter of the season. People want a spot in the side? You train and you put in the effort consistently that Bags is and you can have his spot.

Football clubs very rarely use the stick as much as supporters or fans want them to. They are more likely to take a paitient approach because this is the long game and it is the better tool.

Anyone would think the club is an absolute basketcase the way people carry on about selection every single week.
 
We’re 5-2 last seven weeks, taken it up to top eight teams with our reigning b&f All Australian out pretty much whole season with his injury and one of our leading mid out as well.

Last week we played large part of the match with three injuries.

Think we’re over thinking some of this selection stuff.

Before last night we were in virtually same situation as Crows, 7-8 with around mid 90%. They’re not exactly lying down and giving kids a go.

Coaches clearly believe that a few are still not ready, happens all the time
 

eDPS

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Talk about ruining a leisure passtime by getting bogged down with hierarchy lists or depth carts or spread sheets..

Just go, eat a hot dog a cheer a goal!

Worry less about what is out of your control = enjoy your footy viewing more.

Go team.

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