- Jul 5, 2014
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Haha dont get too smart... I will dob you in ad a close contact for communicating with me.... You too lebbo lolMGA? enjoy your corona
Golf Golf Clubs/Equipment Discussion.
- Thread starter Vincent Chase
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- Jul 5, 2014
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To rub salt further into the wound i hit tbe balls like s**t lmaoMGA? enjoy your corona
Wally Walpamur
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The thing that gets me with fittings is that people are fitting based off say 5 swings each with a few drivers, same with irons, off a mat based off numbers from a Trackman or Foresight.
A proper fitting should be done outside off turf, with the help of a Trackman or Foresight, and where you can see the ACTUAL flight of the ball, not a generated flight. The fitter should have a good selection of shafts, not just the stock ones offered.
A proper fitting should be done outside off turf, with the help of a Trackman or Foresight, and where you can see the ACTUAL flight of the ball, not a generated flight. The fitter should have a good selection of shafts, not just the stock ones offered.
hawkman
Hall of Famer
Spend an extra $30-50 dollars a week playing an extra round or a couple of trips to the range will probably help more. Especially over summer when evening golf is possible
Just a quick reminder that Steve Stricker is currently 5th at the Waste Management Open despite playing a 2008 model iron.
Someone better tell him he needs to get professionally fitted for the latest season gear including trying out a bunch of new OOM shafts.
Someone better tell him he needs to get professionally fitted for the latest season gear including trying out a bunch of new OOM shafts.
People forget or don't realise that pro's get paid to use the new gear, not because it makes a significant difference to their game.
TennisPlayerAndy
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The difference between a set of blades made in 2021 and 2001 would be negligible.
The ‘distance’ comes from manufacturers jacking the lofts down to make it seem like your 7 iron is carry 165+ as standard. what they don’t tell you is that it’s four degrees stronger than conventional.
hawkman
Hall of Famer
Which forces you to then by a gap wedge or 2 to get something close to the older PW
I can almost guarantee you that iron has been tested against others to see which performs best for him, thats pretty much a given on tour. There isn't a pro out there who isn't havent their equipment checked even if they are playing older stuff they are comfortable with.
Yes there is contracts and marketing involved, but no pro is playing without testing the best equipment available for them to ensure they are maxing out their game.
And if his swing and performance hasn't changed since 2008, the custom fitting he had back then probably worked really well
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Taking opinion out, the actual data suggests an increase in performance the majority of the time after a custom fitting vs off the rack. A custom fitting doesnt need to be overly complex either, it could be trying some different heads or shaft flexes and maybe some different sized irons.
Effectively under the same conditions (inside mats on a simulator) if you are hitting the custom fitted clubs better than your current set that they compare against, its unlikely that wont translate when out on the course.
While that's true, the point is that this proves that the older equipment is really no much better ( if at all) then the new stuff. I agree that there will be advancements from time to time, but a blade is a blade and Nicklaus was hitting 300+yard drives in the late 60's.
I'm not sure if it proves it. Its an example but its also possible it's an outlier. Not only that, but pros are probably good enough that they could swing a broom stick and hit it well. Most of us amatuers definitely benefit more from the club helping us out.
If I walked into the store tomorrow and hit a 1980/1990/2000/2010/2020 driver and irons, I'd have a really confident prediction my results and consistency would be an upward trend as the clubs got newer. It's not just distance, but feel, forgiveness, spin, etc.
This is the thing for me with fittings Scrap and why I'm still hesitant to commit. For an amatuer learning and changing their swing, it's very possible that the swing might change day to day or week to week, including fairly big variations in club path and speed. I know on different days I've seen my iron swing vary from high 60s to low 90s.
I guess that's why you pay for the good fitters because you hope they can work around this.
The way to increase distance, with irons, is to increase your swing speed and hitting the ball out of the middle of the club. Off centre hits 'may' benefit from weight dispersion or something but I would be pretty impressed and surprised if an iron from 1980 with the same specs as one from 2020 hit the ball any significant distance differently. I have a set of 1990 Mizuno's. MS-11's I think, and there's no massive difference in distance to my 2018 MP-18's, although I don't know the specs of the clubs, I'll look them up at some stage to see if there's any difference in lofts. Loft change is the only meaningful way that club manufacturers can make a difference in irons. What was a 5 iron in the past is now a 6 or 7 iron.
Ball technology is what has made the biggest difference in this regard. a 1980 ball compared to a 2020 ball will be a huge difference.
Drivers will have an increase in distance for the average over this time period, I would guess somewhere around 10% increase in distance. Off centre hits will be much better with a 440cc head than a 200cc persimmon driver, no doubt about. But both persimmon and metal drivers, if hit out of the middle, will go about the same distance for the average golfer. There's tonnes of YouTube videos trialing exactly this. Manufacturers are now limited to the size of the head and the 'spring' in the material used to make the club, there's literally nothing left to make the ball go further.
Shafts in drivers also help to be more consistent which will increase overall distance averages.
But as I've said before, golf is a mental game mostly and if you think that your clubs are helping then that's half the battle won. There's no doubt incremental differences have occurred overtime but without a shadow of a doubt the biggest difference you can make to distance is swing speed.
But let's not lose sight of the fact the most important factor in golf is distance control and accuracy, not maximum distance. Who cares if you hit a 7 iron 180m if you miss the target every time? I hit my PW 110m, last comp there was a nearest to the pin, the pin was 109m by my rangefinder, I hit the ball 1.4m from the pin. That is much better golf than hitting a SW 100m, as impressive as that is.
Good post Bicco, especially that last bit about distance control.
The only big change I would say is my game improvement irons have a much wider sole than irons of yesteryear. There's a lot of meat at the bottom of the club and centre of gravity is in a different spot to help the ball launch better/higher.
This is only helpful on the long irons though where mid-high HCs can have trouble launching the 3-5 irons.
Mine are also strong in loft (28 degrees for a 7 iron as a reference). I've taken the "4" (19 degrees so is actually a 3 iron) through 6 out of the bag because I can't hit them well. Swapped them out for a 3 and 4H which has made a big improvement in confidence and output. I feel good about hitting the hybrids off s**t lies or around the greens in heavy rough.
Should we have a "what's in your bag?" thread to discuss set composition and all that stuff or keep it in here?
The only big change I would say is my game improvement irons have a much wider sole than irons of yesteryear. There's a lot of meat at the bottom of the club and centre of gravity is in a different spot to help the ball launch better/higher.
This is only helpful on the long irons though where mid-high HCs can have trouble launching the 3-5 irons.
Mine are also strong in loft (28 degrees for a 7 iron as a reference). I've taken the "4" (19 degrees so is actually a 3 iron) through 6 out of the bag because I can't hit them well. Swapped them out for a 3 and 4H which has made a big improvement in confidence and output. I feel good about hitting the hybrids off s**t lies or around the greens in heavy rough.
Should we have a "what's in your bag?" thread to discuss set composition and all that stuff or keep it in here?
Yes many parts I agree with. But distance isn't the only thing that can improve, a lot of work is done on helping ams with launch and forgiveness on off centre hits is probably the biggest one. In just about every review you'll see them talk about they didn't hit a club anywhere near well or centre but it still goes well. Thats great for most golfers. That might show an increase in average distance which is all that matters. There's no point flushing 1/20 if the rest dont get off the ground, the average distance is certainly helped on course which means overall the newer clubs are going further on average and with more consistency, partly due to that forgiveness. There's exceptions to every argument though, granted.
Interesting thought on distance vs accuracy. In a perfect world you have both, but how "long" do you think you need to be to play good golf? Id consider "good" to be a bogey golfer or better. Obviously that's all relative.
hawkman
Hall of Famer
If you are accurate you don't need to be long at all to be a bogey golfer. Just need to be somewhere near the green in 2 with a good lie. So even a 400m par 4 if you are 60-80 metres short but on the fairway, you would probably feel confident of still walking off with a 5.
I think on some holes you need to have distance to be in a good scoring position. Not being able to go 200+ on some long par 5s will make it tough unless your short game and putting is very good. Having said that, strokes inside 100m will continue to be the difference between good and bad scores.
IMO, accuracy is far more important than distance. Playing off the short grass makes the game much easier. Putting is 1st, then short game, then accuracy, then distance control, then distance.
I'll give a comparison that may not be relevant on modern T20 cricket, but Bradman hit six 6's in his test career. That is significant because he tried to completely remove a form of dismissal and he was the greatest run scorer (by Average) in the history of the game and statistically the most dominant sportsman in the history of sport.
How does this compare to golf? What almost never, ever gets discussed about Nicklaus or Tiger is how good they were at putting. A good short game keeps you in the contest. If you can get up and down from 100m you'll beat everyone.
An 18 handicap theoretically is on in 3 and 2 putts, if you can one putt on half of the holes you become a single figure handicap. It's that significant.
The way to 1 putt is to hit a great shot in to about 10 feet or less.
If you hit a crap tee shot, then punch it out say 30m and then hit a good iron in, you're still putting for par. I'll tell you now the pro's make those putts more often than not and they get the chance from a good approach shot.
Putting, chipping and wedge-7i are what we need to be practicing.
A cricketer hitting 2x 6's from his 1st 2 balls and then getting out is pointless when chasing a decent score.
Smashing a drive down the middle, then missing the green, fluffing the chip and 3 putting isn't going to get you a good score in golf. Most of our div 3,4 and 5 pennant team are blokes 50 and over. All single figures that don't miss.
I'd still rather be lucky though
Speaking of equipment, there's only one thing that's used on every shot and that's the ball.
1. What's your first choice ball?
2. What other balls will you play if needed?
3. Do you play second hand/refurbished balls or only new?
4. How did you find your ball? (e.g. was it through some sort of fitting/testing/trial or did you just pick one up, play well and go with it?)
5. Do you think the price of premium balls is justified in their performance?
6. Would you consider trying/using other balls?
For me:
1. Srixon Z Star
2. Yep, often I will play whatever I come across as I get given second hand balls. My other likes are Callaway Supersoft, Srixon Q Stars and Pro V1s (but I never buy these new)
3. Yes, I often buy from Lost Golf Balls, etc and play near Mint or Excellent grade, and only buy new balls when they're on sale. I still lose a few a round.
4. I think I bought first based on price, then after trying some different balls I found on the course I've found my preferences. I have never done any sort of testing in a sim or on the range to fit my golf ball.
5. No. Especially for the top priced balls (mainly Pro V1 I'm looking at you), heaps of data suggests you can balls for half/3 quarters of the price like the Vice/Snell/other brands that have just as good performance for a fair % cheaper. For someone like me who loses 2-3 balls a round it's a no brainer.
6. Yep, I'm still "looking" for my one stop shop ball. I'll play different balls within a round sometimes, one day I'll settle on one and play it for a few months but I'm still trying to find my perfect ball compared to price.
1. What's your first choice ball?
2. What other balls will you play if needed?
3. Do you play second hand/refurbished balls or only new?
4. How did you find your ball? (e.g. was it through some sort of fitting/testing/trial or did you just pick one up, play well and go with it?)
5. Do you think the price of premium balls is justified in their performance?
6. Would you consider trying/using other balls?
For me:
1. Srixon Z Star
2. Yep, often I will play whatever I come across as I get given second hand balls. My other likes are Callaway Supersoft, Srixon Q Stars and Pro V1s (but I never buy these new)
3. Yes, I often buy from Lost Golf Balls, etc and play near Mint or Excellent grade, and only buy new balls when they're on sale. I still lose a few a round.
4. I think I bought first based on price, then after trying some different balls I found on the course I've found my preferences. I have never done any sort of testing in a sim or on the range to fit my golf ball.
5. No. Especially for the top priced balls (mainly Pro V1 I'm looking at you), heaps of data suggests you can balls for half/3 quarters of the price like the Vice/Snell/other brands that have just as good performance for a fair % cheaper. For someone like me who loses 2-3 balls a round it's a no brainer.
6. Yep, I'm still "looking" for my one stop shop ball. I'll play different balls within a round sometimes, one day I'll settle on one and play it for a few months but I'm still trying to find my perfect ball compared to price.
Good post and something that people can overlook, even putting can be affected by your choice of ball.
1. Still working that out - starting to use more premium balls after a recommendation during a lesson (Pro Vs, TPs, Z-stars, Chromesofts) to see which one is best. My budget Callaways weren't doing much in the short game in terms of spin.
2. One of those listed in question 1
3. Mostly second hand but in good condition.
4. During a short game lesson with a pro. Some also felt better than others off the face.
5. Yes, to an extent. Premium balls are usually very durable so should last a long time unless you lose it. Can you get similar performance from a cheaper ball (i.e. Z-stars vs Pro V) - yes.
6. Yes, I'm open to trying different balls to see but wouldn't want to have a choice of 4 or more.
Wally Walpamur
Norm Smith Medallist
- Sep 23, 2016
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Did everyone else get the email from Golf Box to shop the Bettinardi 'The Hive' putters?
Man, they are some gorgeous putters with a price to match.
Man, they are some gorgeous putters with a price to match.
PaddyMcClunkin
All Australian
- May 31, 2016
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The PGA tour is showing how big of an advantage distance gives you in golf.IMO, accuracy is far more important than distance. Playing off the short grass makes the game much easier. Putting is 1st, then short game, then accuracy, then distance control, then distance.
I'll give a comparison that may not be relevant on modern T20 cricket, but Bradman hit six 6's in his test career. That is significant because he tried to completely remove a form of dismissal and he was the greatest run scorer (by Average) in the history of the game and statistically the most dominant sportsman in the history of sport.
How does this compare to golf? What almost never, ever gets discussed about Nicklaus or Tiger is how good they were at putting. A good short game keeps you in the contest. If you can get up and down from 100m you'll beat everyone.
An 18 handicap theoretically is on in 3 and 2 putts, if you can one putt on half of the holes you become a single figure handicap. It's that significant.
The way to 1 putt is to hit a great shot in to about 10 feet or less.
If you hit a crap tee shot, then punch it out say 30m and then hit a good iron in, you're still putting for par. I'll tell you now the pro's make those putts more often than not and they get the chance from a good approach shot.
Putting, chipping and wedge-7i are what we need to be practicing.
A cricketer hitting 2x 6's from his 1st 2 balls and then getting out is pointless when chasing a decent score.
Smashing a drive down the middle, then missing the green, fluffing the chip and 3 putting isn't going to get you a good score in golf. Most of our div 3,4 and 5 pennant team are blokes 50 and over. All single figures that don't miss.
I'd still rather be lucky though
A big reason Tiger won so often was his length. Coming in with shorter clubs means approaches landing closer which means more putts getting holed and better scores.
Would you rather hit a 5 iron from the fairway or a 9 iron from the rough?
Strokes gained stats show us the 9 is better almost every time.
- Jul 5, 2014
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I was just reading a piece of paper junior got with his Mizuno irons and about caring for them. It said apply a light coat of lubricating oil before use. Anyone done that before?...I havent.
Is it to avoid rust?
