Review Good Bad and Ugly vs GWS - Rd 7 2021

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CrowBloke

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Seriously. What do people expect from a guy who has played 20 AFL games in fits and starts.
I can answer that. I don't expect him to star, because of his inexperience.
He makes good position, can jump; both terrific assets. However, I do expect him to hold more of the marks that he gets both hands to as well as the chest marks that bounce/fumble out. He and Frampton have hands of concrete. I have more confidence in Thilthorpe after only 2 games than I have in those two.
I expect him also to kick better for goal from 30-35m out.
I expect him to do the basics well. For reasons beyond me, he doesn't.
 

TubbsFarquhar

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The midfield is a bigger issue than Himmelberg, Tex, Frampton, etc.

17 clearances for the game is ******* dire.

Our small forwards who don't kick goals and don't apply pressure are also a bigger concern.
Two of Rowe's main knocks in the SANFL were his lack of second efforts and defensive pressure and we're seeing that on full display. He's illustrated that he's a clever goal sneak but, if he wants to make it at this level, he needs a stint in the SANFL to get his deficiencies up to scratch because he's way off the mark right now.
 

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Geoffa32

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Creates a huge issue because he gets beaten outright and is easy to run off. Will we rest him and try to get him right again or will we play him into the ground. Pretty confident it'll be the latter.
I wouldn't mind us trying to get him the Coleman in his Final season.

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Apsaalooke

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Yep. That’s the one area that frustrates me too. The fact is he has a great ability to get his hands to it, which means he reads the play and flight of the ball well.

what I dont understand is how he can be so clean below his knees (ie one touch pick ups) but then drop these marks. It tells me it’s in his mind not lacking the ability to grab the ball.
Exactly, he's shown he can grab marks when he put on the Wayne Carey show last year. So unless he's injured or there's some other factor involved which caused him not to be an automatic selection this year behind even Billy, it's in his head. Not a great ask to play to your full potential - I'm sure that's what the coaches expect of him too.
 

WeedsMullet84

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Watching the replay today.

- Himmelberg absolute cement hands. Hugely concerning that we have 2 tall forwards in Berg & Frampton who simply can’t take a grab (in the AFL), and Fog who can’t find any consistency.

- We’re getting better at supporting run through the midfield (, but we’re still struggling to do it with any consistency from the backline, which is why we’re tending to just bomb it out of D50 and hope for the best. GWS and other good teams do it so well with their support and run. Our forwards in McAdam, Himmelberg and Rowe were often caught ball watching. We HEAVILY rely on McHenry to close down space.

- Jackson Hately is a concern. Big bodied mid who doesn’t use his weight and seriously lacks any genuine pace to support contents when we turn the ball over (he was ok on the offensive). Saw minimal defensive run. For anyone playing at home, skip to 11 minutes to go in the 1st Q. We’ve coughed the ball up our F50. Hately is running back and literally isn’t even watching the play running back. Whitfield just waltzes past him, takes a mark and gets an easy I50.

- murdered at the clearances/stoppages

- DMac was more than serviceable, and deserves to get an extra week while Hamill is out. Was our best player to half time.

- Played the conditions poorly, and didn’t adapt as quick as GWS. Overcooked kicks when we were with the wind, and didn’t get enough on kicks when we were against it.

- Our tackling technique has deteriorated. Just unable to lock in tackles yesterday, GWS able to release the ball far too easily.

- McPherson just gradually lost confidence yesterday. Lacked quality coming out often D50 and seriously faded with his defensive efforts. Has to be sent back to the SANFL

- Couldn’t keep our feet. GWS constantly kept theirs and kept themselves in the contest.

- our F50 entries have returned to junk status. Bombing it up forward is just a return to 2020 Crows. We desperately need Sloane back so that this releases Laird & Keays in the midfield chain going forward. We looked so good at the beginning of the season when we had those two having the time to give quality I50 kicks to leading forwards.

- we had all the hallmarks of a young team down on confidence. We will all want impulsive wholesale changes, but it’s this sort of experience that these players need. And a Showdown is exactly the type of game we need our younger players to have as experience under their belt.

Edit: Hately not as bad as 1st thought. He honestly gave about 5 clear options and got burned by crap kicks every single time. Gave a bit more than Berry who was ineffectual so for me it’s Berry that makes way for Sloane.



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feenix67

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I'd expect him to be able hold at least a modicum of the overhead marks he gets his hands on, that's got SFA to do with 20 AFL games or a 100 AFL games, that's a basic skill he should have developed by now if he's ever going to.
We've seen before that he needs continuity. People need to cool their jets on the Berg imo
 

feenix67

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Nope, we are in dire needs of another tall forward, Himmelberg and Frampton aren't up to it going forward if we're being honest.
Nah. I reckon Berg is a bit like Jack Darling. Confidence player. Him and Riley up forward will be a good combo. Just need to keep playing them.
 

Mutineer

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Nah. I reckon Berg is a bit like Jack Darling. Confidence player. Him and Riley up forward will be a good combo. Just need to keep playing them.
The only comparison between Himmelberg and Darling is they're both on an AFL list, that's where it begins and ends.
 

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ltdamn

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I was only able to watch highlights of the game yesterday, but one thing that is noticeable to me since roughly halfway thru the North game is that if we don't win the contest we are going to concede a goal. How many did GWS kick yesterday without a player between the goalkicker and the goal, or on the very last man? I think I counted about 5 in a row at one point.

Our pressure has fallen away significantly in the last few weeks and we don't have the skills by foot or hand to let that happen and still win games.

Also, our fitness is still not AFL standard, even with the players doing their own training before the official pre-season. Something in that department has to give.
 

feenix67

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The only comparison between Himmelberg and Darling is they're both on an AFL list, that's where it begins and ends.
Similar marking averages at the same stage of their careers. I'm happy to revisit at seasons end and admit defeat if that's how it plays out. I'd like to see it play out though.
 

Golumless

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I was only able to watch highlights of the game yesterday, but one thing that is noticeable to me since roughly halfway thru the North game is that if we don't win the contest we are going to concede a goal. How many did GWS kick yesterday without a player between the goalkicker and the goal, or on the very last man? I think I counted about 5 in a row at one point.

Our pressure has fallen away significantly in the last few weeks and we don't have the skills by foot or hand to let that happen and still win games.

Also, our fitness is still not AFL standard, even with the players doing their own training before the official pre-season. Something in that department has to give.
I'm not knocking this part just yet. We're looking to play a high pressure game, which requires a lot more than just AFL standard fitness to back up week in week out, and there are a lot of players (especially now), who just don't have the preseasons under their belt to do that.
 

hey shorty

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I'm not knocking this part just yet. We're looking to play a high pressure game, which requires a lot more than just AFL standard fitness to back up week in week out, and there are a lot of players (especially now), who just don't have the preseasons under their belt to do that.
And when you're always chasing, it means you've gotta work harder.
 

GreyCrow

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skip to 11 minutes to go in the 1st Q. We’ve coughed the ball up our F50. Hately is running back and literally isn’t even watching the play running back. Whitfield just waltzes past him, takes a mark and gets an easy I50.
Firstly it is on him to do the right things

But I wonder if he has too much info in his head - and being a new player at the club and in the team - is trying to follow the instructions to the letter and forgetting about football instinct

I saw him at the U18s and he was ok - played back of the pack and a step behind which allowed him to work forward when he had it

I would persist with him for now as I think he just needs to have confidence that he wont be dropped then confidence in doing the 1st thing and not think about it too long
 

Jirkago75

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If the kick to Mcadam was beautiful he wouldn't have had to dive for it.
Mackay played the EASIEST position to play on the field it is 100% his job to intercept the marks and lay tackles, also to rebound forward. He should have gained more possessions, not including kick-ins and frees from being in the right place at the right time.
With Smith locked down he needed to step up and have a big impact. With all his 'experience ' and ' leadership ' this should have been easy for him.
As others have said though he shouldn't be playing when we are rebuilding. He adds nothing.
It’s easy to say that he played the easiest decision but who else did that?? No one, he was the only one to provide run. Nicks has made a plan in his head that he must play X number of experience to help them learn. If it’s Mackay or Kelly or whoever, just deal with it and stop stressing if Mackay plays or not. Rebuilds take time unless you want to be Melbourne or Carlton and take 10+ years
 

Scorpus

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Since BACCS suggested that Mackay was actually one of our best players, I took the time to watch all of his involvements on Stats Pro (which you can do here if you are interested). I'm talking every single disposal. Also watched several other players I was interested in.

David Mackay
- Had 9 touches in the first quarter. Most of them, with the exception of a handball to a stationary Doedee under immediate pressure, were regulation 30m passes in the back half under no pressure at all, or very short (1-2m) handballs
- In the second quarter he had one really nice link up play on the wing which led to a mark just outside 50
- Had zero impact on the game whatsoever in the 3rd quarter. 2 disposals, one of which was a 30m kick from basically the defensive goal square.
- Had another really nice one-two run and carry on the wing in the final quarter, led to a scoring shot
- 4 of his 7 last quarter touches were in junk time, beyond the 25 minute mark. One of these was an absolute shocker of a kick inside 50

My assessment watching the game was that Mackay had no impact on the game. Watching his involvements again I now understand why. He only had two decent involvements outside deep in defensive 50 for the entire match. His disposals inside D50 were as regulation unpressured chips as you'll see. Not clangers or turnovers, not many hospital handballs, just simple vanilla touches. His two "run and carry" moments were really good, but he didn't have anywhere near enough of them

Elliot Himmelberg
- Had an excellent hitout to advantage in the first quarter
- Dropped an uncontested chest mark in Q1 which caused a stoppage instead of a push inside 50
- Kicked an inside 50 over Tex's head
- Didn't have any involvement in the game between half time and 20 minutes into Q4

He was anywhere from woeful to completely invisible

Jackson Hately
- Had an excellent tackle inside 50 in the first quarter which wasn't rewarded
- One of his supposed "turnovers" in the first quarter was actually an effective kick to a one on one contest with Taylor Walker where Walker didn't mark the ball. Harsh
- Got run down embarrassingly in the first quarter, lack of awareness
- Another one of his turnovers was a kick under extreme pressure with no Crow anywhere near him in support
- Nice effective inside 50 in the second
- Kicked into the man on the mark going for goal on the 50. Embarrassing
- Did not touch the football from the end of Q3 until 20 minutes into Q4

His outside work wasn't too bad, often was in a good position and got very nice separation from his opponents to our advantage. His major issues so far are a lack of winning the ball at stoppages. None of his involvements were at stoppages, now the footage doesn't show blocks or pressure acts but it does show all possessions and tackles. Had maybe 3-4 inside midfield involvements in the entire game. That needs to lift, but I think there's enough to persist with. His "turnovers" were judged harshly on the stat sheet in my opinion

James Rowe
- Marked an inside 50 kick from Seedsman but it was called "play on" and he shanked the snap. Harsh umpiring call
- Hit the post from point blank range. Like literally he was on the goal line
- Had one or two what I'd describe as 'regulation' disposals in the defensive half of the ground

My biggest issue with his game is that he only had one crumb inside 50 for the entire match. He is a small forward and his only involvements were basically uncontested outside receiver disposals outside 50. He needs to crumb packs and kick goals. Terrible game

Some other more brief thoughts

Andrew McPherson

Got a lot more of the ball on the wing than David Mackay surprisingly and more forward half kicks by a rough look. However he didn't have the nice run and carry moments that Mackay provided twice. The majority of his involvements were regulation disposals in the defensive 50. Had a few decent intercepts but his major issue was his work under any pressure. Had zero tackles. I think his game was judged harshly by some (including me) on here and I wouldn't be surprised to see him survive, but only just. Definitely has a lot to work on with his game.

Shane McAdam

About as bad as Rowe but should have had at least one goal to his name after his tackle inside 50 that Walker chose to play on from. Had zero impact on the game up until late in the 3rd quarter

Nick Murray

Was decent defensively, better than I thought. Played mostly on Finlayson who had basically no impact on the game. I don't understand why we played him forward given that in my opinion he was solid defensively and worth persisting with in that role. Originally thought we should drop him and while I don't think he has many tools to make it long term at AFL level I'd give him another shot next week

Jake Kelly

Watched the Toby Greene highlights for this match as Greene had 10 score involvements. Absolutely towelled Kelly up, and it wasn't in the air, it was in positioning and ground level work. Kelly was constantly trailing Greene, letting him slip away at stoppages. Greene is an incredibly smart footballer and you really see that in these highlights. There were a couple of moments where Kelly got the spoil in but Greene torched him at ground level. Now to be fair, Kelly wasn't always on Greene (Smith and Mackay were even worse on him). GWS/Greene were also smart in trying to drag Kelly as far up the ground as they could so that Kelly couldn't have impact inside D50 as the third man in for spoils

Also to be fair to Kelly, he was quite good whenever he wasn't on Greene. He's very effective at coming off his man and helping out team mates, as always had tidy disposal in and out of defensive 50, tackles hard and never gives up. A couple of times he made the perfect decision to come off his man and help out Butts and Doedee. But Greene was the wrong match up. IMO Doedee should have played on Greene and Kelly on Himmelberg
 
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moogerfooger

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I like how on Mackay's stat sheet it marks every stat bar one in red as "below average". His goal tally of zero is marked green to denote "above average".

Seemingly the less he does, the better.
 

Crowbots are dead

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We looked exactly like what we are, the team that finished bottom last season and spent the last 4 years actively avoding drafting class midfielders, now comprised of a handful of ok to good veterans, a bunch of high effort but workmanlike young mids, and a good looking young KPF, papering over the cracks of a series of horrendous draft and development blunders.

Moving onto a topic not as often discussed, I don't see why we continue to persist with Nick Murray ahead of other options. Getting picked like that and making a debut was a nice story, but what is it about him that keeps getting him ahead of players we drafted much, much higher, and theoretically have developed for much longer? He strikes me as one standard football player, a replacement on our list for Hartigan who isn't as good because he lacks the blistering closing speed that made Hartigan useful on the Robbie Grays of the league. Why then are we playing him over McCasey, or Worrell?
You are focusing on Murray as a problem?? I thought that he has actually shown a bit and is worth preserving with
 

StonesThrow

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Nope, we are in dire needs of another tall forward, Himmelberg and Frampton aren't up to it going forward if we're being honest.
So last year didn't happen? He was consistently clunking those marks in the second half of the year and looked a completely different player (an afl player). That was about 40% of his afl games to that point.

I don't know why we wouldn't just show a bit of patience to see if he can regain that.
 

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