Review Good Bad and Ugly vs GWS - Rd 7 2021

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Pilchard_Adams

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Just watched the game, some how managed to avoid all scores and social media until this morning. Why when we win and I watch the game late can I not manage this!

Our midfield got pummeled. We have an AA defender, a guy who couldnt get a game last year and half the supporters thought should be delisted soon, and a delisted half forward Lion who was supposed to just be depth as our main mids. These go with McHenry, Schoey, Sholl, Hately, Berry with an average experience of 12 games and 20 years of age.

This was against Taranto (pick 2), Hopper (pick 7), Kelly (pick 2), Perryman (pick 14), Ward (pick 19), Whitfield (pick 1), Tom Green (pick 10). Average age of 26 and average games experience of 108 games.

There is only so much our mids can do at this stage of their career. They need a Sloane type to lead them.

Its also disappointing young 2nd game defender Murray can provide a better target in 1 quarter than most our forwards could for the entire game.
 

BRL121

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Since BACCS suggested that Mackay was actually one of our best players, I took the time to watch all of his involvements on Stats Pro (which you can do here if you are interested). I'm talking every single disposal. Also watched several other players I was interested in.

David Mackay
- Had 9 touches in the first quarter. Most of them, with the exception of a handball to a stationary Doedee under immediate pressure, were regulation 30m passes in the back half under no pressure at all, or very short (1-2m) handballs
- In the second quarter he had one really nice link up play on the wing which led to a mark just outside 50
- Had zero impact on the game whatsoever in the 3rd quarter. 2 disposals, one of which was a 30m kick from basically the defensive goal square.
- Had another really nice one-two run and carry on the wing in the final quarter, led to a scoring shot
- 4 of his 7 last quarter touches were in junk time, beyond the 25 minute mark. One of these was an absolute shocker of a kick inside 50

My assessment watching the game was that Mackay had no impact on the game. Watching his involvements again I now understand why. He only had two decent involvements outside deep in defensive 50 for the entire match. His disposals inside D50 were as regulation unpressured chips as you'll see. Not clangers or turnovers, not many hospital handballs, just simple vanilla touches. His two "run and carry" moments were really good, but he didn't have anywhere near enough of them

Elliot Himmelberg
- Had an excellent hitout to advantage in the first quarter
- Dropped an uncontested chest mark in Q1 which caused a stoppage instead of a push inside 50
- Kicked an inside 50 over Tex's head
- Didn't have any involvement in the game between half time and 20 minutes into Q4

He was anywhere from woeful to completely invisible

Jackson Hately
- Had an excellent tackle inside 50 in the first quarter which wasn't rewarded
- One of his supposed "turnovers" in the first quarter was actually an effective kick to a one on one contest with Taylor Walker where Walker didn't mark the ball. Harsh
- Got run down embarrassingly in the first quarter, lack of awareness
- Another one of his turnovers was a kick under extreme pressure with no Crow anywhere near him in support
- Nice effective inside 50 in the second
- Kicked into the man on the mark going for goal on the 50. Embarrassing
- Did not touch the football from the end of Q3 until 20 minutes into Q4

His outside work wasn't too bad, often was in a good position and got very nice separation from his opponents to our advantage. His major issues so far are a lack of winning the ball at stoppages. None of his involvements were at stoppages, now the footage doesn't show blocks or pressure acts but it does show all possessions and tackles. Had maybe 3-4 inside midfield involvements in the entire game. That needs to lift, but I think there's enough to persist with. His "turnovers" were judged harshly on the stat sheet in my opinion

James Rowe
- Marked an inside 50 kick from Seedsman but it was called "play on" and he shanked the snap. Harsh umpiring call
- Hit the post from point blank range. Like literally he was on the goal line
- Had one or two what I'd describe as 'regulation' disposals in the defensive half of the ground

My biggest issue with his game is that he only had one crumb inside 50 for the entire match. He is a small forward and his only involvements were basically uncontested outside receiver disposals outside 50. He needs to crumb packs and kick goals. Terrible game

Some other more brief thoughts

Andrew McPherson

Got a lot more of the ball on the wing than David Mackay surprisingly and more forward half kicks by a rough look. However he didn't have the nice run and carry moments that Mackay provided twice. The majority of his involvements were regulation disposals in the defensive 50. Had a few decent intercepts but his major issue was his work under any pressure. Had zero tackles. I think his game was judged harshly by some (including me) on here and I wouldn't be surprised to see him survive, but only just. Definitely has a lot to work on with his game.

Shane McAdam

About as bad as Rowe but should have had at least one goal to his name after his tackle inside 50 that Walker chose to play on from. Had zero impact on the game up until late in the 3rd quarter

Nick Murray

Was decent defensively, better than I thought. Played mostly on Finlayson who had basically no impact on the game. I don't understand why we played him forward given that in my opinion he was solid defensively and worth persisting with in that role. Originally thought we should drop him and while I don't think he has many tools to make it long term at AFL level I'd give him another shot next week

Jake Kelly

Watched the Toby Greene highlights for this match as Greene had 10 score involvements. Absolutely towelled Kelly up, and it wasn't in the air, it was in positioning and ground level work. Kelly was constantly trailing Greene, letting him slip away at stoppages. Greene is an incredibly smart footballer and you really see that in these highlights. There were a couple of moments where Kelly got the spoil in but Greene torched him at ground level. Now to be fair, Kelly wasn't always on Greene (Smith and Mackay were even worse on him). GWS/Greene were also smart in trying to drag Kelly as far up the ground as they could so that Kelly couldn't have impact inside D50 as the third man in for spoils

Also to be fair to Kelly, he was quite good whenever he wasn't on Greene. He's very effective at coming off his man and helping out team mates, as always had tidy disposal in and out of defensive 50, tackles hard and never gives up. A couple of times he made the perfect decision to come off his man and help out Butts and Doedee. But Greene was the wrong match up. IMO Doedee should have played on Greene and Kelly on Himmelberg
On McPherson, watching him until just before halftime, it seemed that most of his disposals, which were mainly unpressured, were passed lace-out to oppo chests. You have made no comment on that: was that not in your footage?
 

Geoffa32

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Since BACCS suggested that Mackay was actually one of our best players, I took the time to watch all of his involvements on Stats Pro (which you can do here if you are interested). I'm talking every single disposal. Also watched several other players I was interested in.

David Mackay
- Had 9 touches in the first quarter. Most of them, with the exception of a handball to a stationary Doedee under immediate pressure, were regulation 30m passes in the back half under no pressure at all, or very short (1-2m) handballs
- In the second quarter he had one really nice link up play on the wing which led to a mark just outside 50
- Had zero impact on the game whatsoever in the 3rd quarter. 2 disposals, one of which was a 30m kick from basically the defensive goal square.
- Had another really nice one-two run and carry on the wing in the final quarter, led to a scoring shot
- 4 of his 7 last quarter touches were in junk time, beyond the 25 minute mark. One of these was an absolute shocker of a kick inside 50

My assessment watching the game was that Mackay had no impact on the game. Watching his involvements again I now understand why. He only had two decent involvements outside deep in defensive 50 for the entire match. His disposals inside D50 were as regulation unpressured chips as you'll see. Not clangers or turnovers, not many hospital handballs, just simple vanilla touches. His two "run and carry" moments were really good, but he didn't have anywhere near enough of them

Elliot Himmelberg
- Had an excellent hitout to advantage in the first quarter
- Dropped an uncontested chest mark in Q1 which caused a stoppage instead of a push inside 50
- Kicked an inside 50 over Tex's head
- Didn't have any involvement in the game between half time and 20 minutes into Q4

He was anywhere from woeful to completely invisible

Jackson Hately
- Had an excellent tackle inside 50 in the first quarter which wasn't rewarded
- One of his supposed "turnovers" in the first quarter was actually an effective kick to a one on one contest with Taylor Walker where Walker didn't mark the ball. Harsh
- Got run down embarrassingly in the first quarter, lack of awareness
- Another one of his turnovers was a kick under extreme pressure with no Crow anywhere near him in support
- Nice effective inside 50 in the second
- Kicked into the man on the mark going for goal on the 50. Embarrassing
- Did not touch the football from the end of Q3 until 20 minutes into Q4

His outside work wasn't too bad, often was in a good position and got very nice separation from his opponents to our advantage. His major issues so far are a lack of winning the ball at stoppages. None of his involvements were at stoppages, now the footage doesn't show blocks or pressure acts but it does show all possessions and tackles. Had maybe 3-4 inside midfield involvements in the entire game. That needs to lift, but I think there's enough to persist with. His "turnovers" were judged harshly on the stat sheet in my opinion

James Rowe
- Marked an inside 50 kick from Seedsman but it was called "play on" and he shanked the snap. Harsh umpiring call
- Hit the post from point blank range. Like literally he was on the goal line
- Had one or two what I'd describe as 'regulation' disposals in the defensive half of the ground

My biggest issue with his game is that he only had one crumb inside 50 for the entire match. He is a small forward and his only involvements were basically uncontested outside receiver disposals outside 50. He needs to crumb packs and kick goals. Terrible game

Some other more brief thoughts

Andrew McPherson

Got a lot more of the ball on the wing than David Mackay surprisingly and more forward half kicks by a rough look. However he didn't have the nice run and carry moments that Mackay provided twice. The majority of his involvements were regulation disposals in the defensive 50. Had a few decent intercepts but his major issue was his work under any pressure. Had zero tackles. I think his game was judged harshly by some (including me) on here and I wouldn't be surprised to see him survive, but only just. Definitely has a lot to work on with his game.

Shane McAdam

About as bad as Rowe but should have had at least one goal to his name after his tackle inside 50 that Walker chose to play on from. Had zero impact on the game up until late in the 3rd quarter

Nick Murray

Was decent defensively, better than I thought. Played mostly on Finlayson who had basically no impact on the game. I don't understand why we played him forward given that in my opinion he was solid defensively and worth persisting with in that role. Originally thought we should drop him and while I don't think he has many tools to make it long term at AFL level I'd give him another shot next week

Jake Kelly

Watched the Toby Greene highlights for this match as Greene had 10 score involvements. Absolutely towelled Kelly up, and it wasn't in the air, it was in positioning and ground level work. Kelly was constantly trailing Greene, letting him slip away at stoppages. Greene is an incredibly smart footballer and you really see that in these highlights. There were a couple of moments where Kelly got the spoil in but Greene torched him at ground level. Now to be fair, Kelly wasn't always on Greene (Smith and Mackay were even worse on him). GWS/Greene were also smart in trying to drag Kelly as far up the ground as they could so that Kelly couldn't have impact inside D50 as the third man in for spoils

Also to be fair to Kelly, he was quite good whenever he wasn't on Greene. He's very effective at coming off his man and helping out team mates, as always had tidy disposal in and out of defensive 50, tackles hard and never gives up. A couple of times he made the perfect decision to come off his man and help out Butts and Doedee. But Greene was the wrong match up. IMO Doedee should have played on Greene and Kelly on Himmelberg
Green would have towelled up anyone.


He and Dusty the two best players in the game right now.


Have to check out that tool on the AFL app.

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CrowBloke

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On McPherson, watching him until just before halftime, it seemed that most of his disposals, which were mainly unpressured, were passed lace-out to oppo chests. You have made no comment on that: was that not in your footage?
Thanks for that.
I noticed same during the game, but there's been so much praise for McPherson in here I thought I must have got the player wrong.
 

Scorpus

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Green would have towelled up anyone.


He and Dusty the two best players in the game right now.


Have to check out that tool on the AFL app.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
He probably would have. It was crazy how often Kelly would spoil Greene in the air but then at ground level Greene would get 5m of separation in seconds through burst pace. What a player to watch
 

hey shorty

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He probably would have. It was crazy how often Kelly would spoil Greene in the air but then at ground level Greene would get 5m of separation in seconds through burst pace. What a player to watch
We, and most clubs, don't have a player that matches up all that well with him. Super strong in the air, on the deck and in the contest.... Fantastic lateral movement too.
 

Scorpus

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On McPherson, watching him until just before halftime, it seemed that most of his disposals, which were mainly unpressured, were passed lace-out to oppo chests. You have made no comment on that: was that not in your footage?
He did it twice and one of them wasn't that bad. His other three turnovers were a free against, a kick inside 50 to a contest which our forwards stuffed up, and a pressure kick out of defense to a contest.

One of his turnovers was a shocker but outside of that most of his 16 disposals were regulation uncontested passes
 

Betts are off

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Ok, I'm really REALLY ready for Sloane and Crouch to come back in the side now.

Granted we are not playing against midfield scrubs these last 3 rounds, but wowser's we have been shown up when its counted. I like our young mid's and think they are developing nicely, but Saturdays performance (as well as the last 2) showed that we need some guys in the middle who can just straight up win a hard footy against the flow.
 

hey shorty

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He did it twice and one of them wasn't that bad. His other three turnovers were a free against, a kick inside 50 to a contest which our forwards stuffed up, and a pressure kick out of defense to a contest.

One of his turnovers was a shocker but outside of that most of his 16 disposals were regulation uncontested passes
I think people can understand biting off a hard kick on the 45... But those easy misses are what we've bemoaned Kelly, Mackay and co doing for years.

He's better than that
 

Betts are off

Norm Smith Medallist
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BTW, how much does Tom Greene look like Dangerfield from the neck down? After his second goal I thought I was looking at his clone.
 

jackster83

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He did it twice and one of them wasn't that bad. His other three turnovers were a free against, a kick inside 50 to a contest which our forwards stuffed up, and a pressure kick out of defense to a contest.

One of his turnovers was a shocker but outside of that most of his 16 disposals were regulation uncontested passes
I really like the Moose but he's not been the same since Heeney towelled him up.

One of Hinge/Milera would be handy right now.
 

Scorpus

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I think people can understand biting off a hard kick on the 45... But those easy misses are what we've bemoaned Kelly, Mackay and co doing for years.

He's better than that
He is absolutely better than that.

But what I found interesting whatching these highlights is that clearly for some people, one or two moments in the entire game can influence someone's opinion on the player. Even happened with me.

For example McPherson had 16 touches but only maybe 2 or 3 of those were bad turnovers. Did those have an impact? Absolutely, but he wasn't that bad otherwise. Not great, but not stinker level bad.

Mackay had 2 exceptional run and carry moments but did not much with the rest of his touches. Conclusion is he was in our best players probably based on those moments without assessing the rest of his game

For me it was Himmelberg. I swear he dropped more than one mark but actually he only flubbed one, he just went missing the rest of the game.
 

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Bearded Clam

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The issue is where is the next Rory Sloane (or someone even better) coming from?

We can't just rely on him carrying our midfield forever. Keays is good, but badly needs support.
The problem is our four best mids currently are sloane, laird, keays and mcrouch (once he returns from injury)...

all four are nowhere near elite or classy mids and, whilst keays looks pretty quick., the rest are slow.

all four are workhorse types. we need two of them at most.

We need two elite classy mids with speed to join them. We’ll hopefully get them at the end of this year and next year.
 

hey shorty

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He is absolutely better than that.

But what I found interesting whatching these highlights is that clearly for some people, one or two moments in the entire game can influence someone's opinion on the player. Even happened with me.

For example McPherson had 16 touches but only maybe 2 or 3 of those were bad turnovers. Did those have an impact? Absolutely, but he wasn't that bad otherwise. Not great, but not stinker level bad.

Mackay had 2 exceptional run and carry moments but did not much with the rest of his touches. Conclusion is he was in our best players probably based on those moments

For me it was Himmelberg. I swear he dropped more than one mark but actually he only flubbed one, he just went missing the rest of the game.
Yep that's generally spot on. It's why people think what they do about our Tom Lynch really.
 

Scorpus

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Anyway I would actually highly recommend watching these extended player highlights in Stats Pro. Became available about a day after the game. Each involvement is labelled with stuff like "effective kick" or "turnover" so you can understand how the player got their stats
 

footy4ever

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How many did GWS kick yesterday without a player between the goalkicker and the goal, or on the very last man?
I was spewing this far and wide at the game. Absolutely pathetic! That's a coaching issue, or it's plain dumb as usual Crows football/players.


oh and Doedee, love him, but...try to keep on your feet more often. Saw a few times of launching for the spoil or mark, even in a one on one, and immediately going to ground while his oppo is on his feet getting the ball.
 

jackster83

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It's amazing how many injuries are across the league right now. We've been smashed but we aren't alone.
The other issue we've got is underdone players. Guys like Cook, Davis and Pedlar aren't in any condition to be considered for selection.

The mid season draft can't come quick enough.
 

WeedsMullet84

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Thanks for that.
I noticed same during the game, but there's been so much praise for McPherson in here I thought I must have got the player wrong.
I think you're bang on with McPherson. Had a really poor moment not chasing his player on the weekend and Rankine just looped the ball over to the player he was marking who went on to kick a goal. I'm sure the vision would have been played back to him.

BTW, No wonder Worrell has decided to stick around for the next few years. I believe his missus has moved here from Victoria and seems to be settling in pretty well with the WAGS here in Adelaide...
Now I’ve seen it all on this on this board. Thanks bigfooty.
McPherson, to the eye, has had a poor 2 weeks, IMO, but hardly worth dropping.
Other posters and I have been saying this since Round 2.
 

Geoffa32

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Anyway I would actually highly recommend watching these extended player highlights in Stats Pro. Became available about a day after the game. Each involvement is labelled with stuff like "effective kick" or "turnover" so you can understand how the player got their stats
When I have time I want to check out Keays and Murphy.

My two best players, before watching that.

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For example McPherson had 16 touches but only maybe 2 or 3 of those were bad turnovers. Did those have an impact? Absolutely, but he wasn't that bad otherwise. Not great, but not stinker level bad.
McPherson did a couple of ordinary kicks in the first half, similar to some of his errors in previous games.

Seemed just a lack of care to me. Kicking into the wind there needs to be a bit more punch/speed on the ball.

After half time I thought he was better. Took more care and played ok.

Hopefully he gets back on track permanently because he's a keeper imo
 
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How many did GWS kick yesterday without a player between the goalkicker and the goal, or on the very last man? I think I counted about 5 in a row at one point.
Our defensive action right across the field broke down completely at times in this game. First time this season we've really been opened up.

GWS were able to run and move the ball with speed, minimal pressure on the ball carrier.

Left our defenders exposed, running back towards goal, too much space to protect.

I think it was just a young team hitting the wall to a degree. Maybe the six day break and deflating loss last week contributed but we just didn't seem as intense around the ball.

Hopefully can regroup this week because there really weren't any positives from the weekend. Win or lose, you want to take some good things out of each game and see some signs of progress.
 

LC40

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The other issue we've got is underdone players. Guys like Cook, Davis and Pedlar aren't in any condition to be considered for selection.

The mid season draft can't come quick enough.
How is the mid season draft going to be a fix. We pick up one player who was originally available in the main draft but wasn't taken.
We aren't taking a quality player from a current AFL list.
Sure they might be a handy at best but all this draft really does is stuff the lower leagues clubs.
The most probable result is the Crows pick up an extra SANFL squad player.
 

DJ75

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Just watched the game, some how managed to avoid all scores and social media until this morning. Why when we win and I watch the game late can I not manage this!

Our midfield got pummeled. We have an AA defender, a guy who couldnt get a game last year and half the supporters thought should be delisted soon, and a delisted half forward Lion who was supposed to just be depth as our main mids. These go with McHenry, Schoey, Sholl, Hately, Berry with an average experience of 12 games and 20 years of age.

This was against Taranto (pick 2), Hopper (pick 7), Kelly (pick 2), Perryman (pick 14), Ward (pick 19), Whitfield (pick 1), Tom Green (pick 10). Average age of 26 and average games experience of 108 games.

There is only so much our mids can do at this stage of their career. They need a Sloane type to lead them.

Its also disappointing young 2nd game defender Murray can provide a better target in 1 quarter than most our forwards could for the entire game.
This was interesting.
Tex is obviously injured. He has also NEVER been that pack marking guy. Yet we consistently ignored all other players in an attempt to bomb the ball on Tex's head. So weird.

Thilthorpe got sucked in by his opponent. Every aerial contest, Thilthorpe ended up with only one arm in the air as he was grappling with his opponent with the other. His opponent would have loved that. Needed to just focus on marking and not pushing his opponent. Will have been a big learning game for him.

Himmelberg was awful. Got his hands to it a few times, but couldn't hold anything.

Murray did what young defenders often do when thrown in attack - he just jumped at the ball. Didn't worry about his opponent and didn't get caught up in wrestling or trying to make initial contact (like Tex did all day). He just jumped at the ball. Loved it.
 

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