Review Good/Bad: Inaccurate Crows vs St Kilda

Who played well against St Kilda?

  • Sam Berry

  • Luke Brown

  • Jordan Dawson

  • Tom Doedee

  • Darcy Fogarty

  • Will Hamill

  • Jackson Hately

  • Mitch Hinge

  • Chayce Jones

  • Ben Keays

  • Rory Laird

  • Shane McAdam

  • Ned McHenry

  • Lachlan Murphy

  • Nick Murray

  • Josh Rachele

  • James Rowe

  • Lachlan Sholl (sub)

  • Brodie Smith

  • Jake Soligo

  • Kieran Strachan

  • Riley Thilthorpe

  • Taylor Walker


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MrBarry

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Watching the golf too mate :)

I'm not Fogs biggest fan but the hate is over the top here. His first quarter was very good pushing up the ground. Spent long periods on the bench and the delivery into F50 was diabolical. He was definitely not our worst.

I wonder, whe we picked RT over LM in the draft, whether we thought we were getting a strong marking forward, a ruckman/forward or a strong running forward who could run his opponent around? Because right now, LM looks the more natural forward by a mile.

RT is further along than LM in nearly all statistics for basically same number of games played...
 

George Kramer

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McHenry kicks that goal and we win I reckon.

We’ve got major list and development issues.

Clearly we are short:

A KPD
A developing decent ruck, we don’t have one on the list, how can that be?
Midfield, well what we are putting out is poor. Hopefully Soligo, Taylor and Pedlar can come on. Soligo looks a player, reckon he would be a quality inside mid. Toughness, burst of speed, good skills and seems a smart footballer.
Key forward. We have Thilthorpe, Gollant will be a third tall, we need another one.
Small forward. Hopefully Rachelle moves into the midfield eventually, but we need more than one. McHenry, Rowe and Murphy aren’t good enough. Hopefully Newchurch might be.

But basically for a rebuilding side we’ve got a lot of work to do because of our drafting and poor development
 

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John Who

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Kick straight and we win that. Pure and simple.

The positives to come out of the night for me were most of the youngsters - getting more game time and growing in confidence and experience. Rachele needs a rest.

Obviously negatives revolve around our skills.

Disappointed for Tex. he was soundly booed by the st Kilda crowd, and his opponent was clearly being a grubby little twat and it got under Tex’s skin. Hated that all we could hear on the tv coverage was the st Kilda cheers squad. Seriously, wtf was that?

I’m happy (this year) for us to show effort in games like this, but not bring home the points. We need a better pick in the draft.
Putting emotions aside, I think last night’s game was a good result in a rebuilding year. We contested well until literally the last minute of the game. The kind of game that will bring the team more confidence, not weaken team morale. Of course, assuming we can kick more accurate in future games!

The forwards all had stinkers with the kicking for goals. Particularly when at the other end, the Saints forwards were nailing theirs. Frustrating, but not a bad result.
 

MRB37

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McHenry kicks that goal and we win I reckon.

We’ve got major list and development issues.

Clearly we are short:

A KPD
A developing decent ruck, we don’t have one on the list, how can that be?
Midfield, well what we are putting out is poor. Hopefully Soligo, Taylor and Pedlar can come on. Soligo looks a player, reckon he would be a quality inside mid. Toughness, burst of speed, good skills and seems a smart footballer.
Key forward. We have Thilthorpe, Gollant will be a third tall, we need another one.
Small forward. Hopefully Rachelle moves into the midfield eventually, but we need more than one. McHenry, Rowe and Murphy aren’t good enough. Hopefully Newchurch might be.

But basically for a rebuilding side we’ve got a lot of work to do because of our drafting and poor development
Not just a ruck, but one who has some athleticism and a good vertical leap. Stop with the big, lumbering dudes.

I think Rowe will be OK as a small, he's smart and generally fines a target by foot inside 50 if he gets it.
 

CrowBloke

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Kick straight and we win that. Pure and simple.
Nicks made the same point several times, in his presser.
He was as upbeat as you usually are :), wanting the boys to work harder and stay positive. I liked that.
Soligo, who looks to have it, said as much in his post-game interview.
Work hard, stay positive. It's a good message, but he also said that they've worked very hard on their goalkicking and practised thousands of shots @ goal.

P.S. Fwiw, I think there was much more to the loss than that. Please read my next post.
 

FullyBigKPro

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Reckon this will be the first draft where we go into with absolutely clear NEEDS

1 x KPD
2 X A Grade mids who are 185+, solid pace, can kick and have good decision making
1 x Ruckman
1x Project KPF

Thought Berry and Soligo looked good from the young brigade.

Dawson worth every cent and should be wining our BnF.
 

CrowBloke

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Re: Nick's presser, there were a few things that worried me. The Crows had lost a winnable game, but Nicks was smiley and upbeat. They played exactly how he wanted them to play, he said :oops: .
Nicks blamed the poor goalkicking, only, but it was an aberration, not a trend. He said that on the night they knew "exactly" where they lost the game. For him and his charges, that was it. The one thing.

Someone reminded him about the contested ball; he conceded the point (so it wasn't just about the goalkicking).
Someone else reminded him about defence, but Nicks said they all played well, commended Murray in particular (I thought Brown looked lost at sea again --- his stop-think-look-think technique is a slow-down momentum-killer, and Jones was awful. Without Doedee and Dawson back there, we'd have been mauled).
Someone else asked him about Strachan; Nicks loved his game, but to my eye scrawnie Strawnie gets bodied off the line in ruck contests far too easily and he did not appear to run into defence all that much, not even to block off holes that King led into.
And so on.

It's not "only" the goalkicking. It's their kicking in general, all over the ground. Footpasses that either miss their mark, or worse, land on grateful opponents' chest, thwarting and wrong-footing our defence often. Bomb after bomb into the F50, where contested, clean-handed pack marks by our forwards are a rarity.
I cannot remember such a poor-kicking Crows side.
Listening to Nicks, one would think the game is called Effortball. It's not.
 

Jeffcrowe

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Watching the golf too mate :)

I'm not Fogs biggest fan but the hate is over the top here. His first quarter was very good pushing up the ground. Spent long periods on the bench and the delivery into F50 was diabolical. He was definitely not our worst.

I wonder, whe we picked RT over LM in the draft, whether we thought we were getting a strong marking forward, a ruckman/forward or a strong running forward who could run his opponent around? Because right now, LM looks the more natural forward by a mile.
Fog hasn’t had a shot on goal for 2 weeks he’s been back , ‘his first quarter was good pushing up the ground ‘ - good for what ?

It’s the over the top Thilthorpe analysis that’s surprising me , first game back after no footy at any level , 2nd year player and showed some signs … also should have kicked 3 goals
 

Jeffcrowe

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Re: Nick's presser, there were a few things that worried me. The Crows had lost a winnable game, but Nicks was smiley and upbeat. They played exactly how he wanted them to play, he said :oops: .
Nicks blamed the poor goalkicking, only, but it was an aberration, not a trend. He said that on the night they knew "exactly" where they lost the game. For him and his charges, that was it. The one thing.

Someone reminded him about the contested ball; he conceded the point (so it wasn't just about the goalkicking).
Someone else reminded him about defence, but Nicks said they all played well, commended Murray in particular (I thought Brown looked lost at sea again --- his stop-think-look-think technique is a slow-down momentum-killer, and Jones was awful. Without Doedee and Dawson back there, we'd have been mauled).
Someone else asked him about Strachan; Nicks loved his game, but to my eye scrawnie Strawnie gets bodied off the line in ruck contests far too easily and he did not appear to run into defence all that much, not even to block off holes that King led into.
And so on.

It's not "only" the goalkicking. It's their kicking in general, all over the ground. Footpasses that either miss their mark, or worse, land on grateful opponents' chest, thwarting and wrong-footing our defence often. Bomb after bomb into the F50, where contested, clean-handed pack marks by our forwards are a rarity.
I cannot remember such a poor-kicking Crows side.
Listening to Nicks, one would think the game is called Effortball. It's not.
Great point re Straughan in defence . Poor Murray was exposed to so many one on ones with King that just shouldn’t happen

I’m wondering if Straughan fault or Ryder was himself dangerous , in any case it was great play by the saints and King / Ryder
 

CrowBloke

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Bad

Slipping over for no reason.

How is this still tolerated by our coaches?

Wear the right boots or you don't play
Was also mentioned to Nicks. He brushed it off with a smile.
 

Minor Threat

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Yeah I get it. Effort, tried hard, some positive signs, blah blah blah. But really, I’m just sick of losing now. Sick of almost wins followed by hidings. Be patient? I think fans have been patient for 24 years and will need to be patient even longer. It’s the same thing year after year.
 

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Bearded Clam

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So reading through this…

Good to see last nights game being blamed on the usual players.. And again another week with little to no mention of the elephant in the room..

Our two supposed “gun” midfileders… our lists “Oliver and Petracca” (one of which is according to some in here is probably in with a chance for the brownlow).

158B401E-8B46-4502-BF78-79ACEE1442EA.jpeg
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Another game… another heap of scrappy garbage dished up from these two.. kicks directly onto the chests (or to the advantage) of the opposition, kicks to the moon, field passes to the feet of their team mates, errant and unnecessary handballs, missed tackles and opponents that seem free to do as they please..

“But, but, but… look how many touches they got!!”..

Our forwards kicking at goal was deplorable last night and we wouldve won if they hadve kicked straight but when is the penny going to drop in regards to the absolute shite these two keep dishing up week in week out?..

Easier to blame the forwards and defenders i suppose..
 

Bearded Clam

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Gees Keays is a momentum killer, he just can’t kick
Laird is no better..

One that stands out from last night was his, under little pressure, 20m field kick to a leading Rachele.. that basically landed on Rachele’s toes making it near impossible for him at full flight to pick up..

Which also prompted a comment on the game day thread of “geez Rachele needs a break”!!…

Yep.. It was Rachele’s fault… had nothing to do with yet another garbage kick by Rory.
 

CrowToon

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Totally agreeing with criticism of Keays' kicking. He is protected from criticism because of his effort and endeavour but my god he should never kick.

I will also make the point that I have a lot of faith that next season goes better. This season we have (mostly) stopped the blowouts. We have picked up some wins but we have lost ALOT of winnable games. Winnable not because we went in favourites but because we played our way into them.

I don't think we are close to diabolical if we are doing that. A bit more experience and composure and we win them.

Were we 6 and 4 off the back of a couple of better decisions in key moments of at least 3 games we look like we are tracking nicely.
 

CrowToon

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I also feel that a player like Fogarty was made for a sub role. He is probably only going to give you a quarter and a half of sustained effort but should he get in the zone, he could do big damage.

Though admittedly where in the past he has had those sections of a game where he has looked good, this season has been lacking even that.
 

CrowBloke

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... kicks directly onto the chests (or to the advantage) of the opposition, kicks to the moon, field passes to the feet of their team mates, errant and unnecessary handballs, missed tackles and opponents that seem free to do as they please..
Good post.
I don't think Laird and Keays are as good as many claim, nor quite as dire as you said.
Most of the team kick and handball poorly, with Dawson the standout exception.

Kicking/handballing/marking/tackling are all fixable, or at least improvable, aren't they? Don't our Coaches have to get them right before elaborate structures, zones and game plans can be enacted?
 

WaynesWorld19

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What about supporting our defenders on their I50 kicks from set plays ?

Or did he have his hands full with Ryder ? Not sure what to think , just never saw him in the hole making it hard for King etc

Murray was ok but has no support aerially , lots of one on ones to battle
Strauchan obviously has things to learn .....however he is far superior to ROB

Is it any coincidence, our midfielders have had more clearances since Strauchans's inclusion ? .....or it simply the exclusion of Crouch & inclusion of Hately that has been the difference

When firing ROB would be better than Strauchan .....however those have been so few as to render Strauchan far more consistent, even with just 5 games under his belt ....and in comparing the two, experience or inexperience has to be factored in
 

Jeffcrowe

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Strauchan obviously has things to learn .....however he is far superior to ROB

Is it any coincidence, our midfielders have had more clearances since Strauchans's inclusion ? .....or it simply the exclusion of Crouch & inclusion of Hately that has been the difference

When firing ROB would be better than Strauchan .....however those have been so few as to render Strauchan far more consistent, even with just 5 games under his belt ....and in comparing the two, experience or inexperience has to be factored in
Don’t really have a huge opinion on ROB vs Straughan . Think both are below average rucks , happy for Straughan to get another game next week and see if there’s any progression

But point remains - Murray was left to the slaughter last night and can’t even say it was Straughans fault for not getting back in the hole more as he had to deal with a dangerous Ryder. Just was interesting
 
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Scorpus

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I don't agree with the criticism of our coaching and structure.

We were all over St Kilda in the first half especially, we had more inside 50s, more scoring shots and broke even or won the main midfield stats.

What more can the coach do than get us into a position where we have more inside 50s and more shots at goal?

We lost because we kicked 15 behinds. Half of those we absolutely should have kicked. We do that and we win.
 

Crow till I die

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I'm pretty positive in that I think we're on the right track.

The last two weeks we've had good chunks of the game (tonight it was most of the game) where we were the better team against strong opposition.

We lack a strong marking forward and a KPD (even with Butts back).

Effort and game plan is there. Execution is not, but that gets better with experience and a few different personnel (we need a few more Dawsons).

As an aside, Saints fans were pretty cocky tonight after the game. Some of the were being real campaigners.
They had every right to be cocky considering its not often a side wins a really close one when they themselves have one of those nights in front of goal whilst the opposition have an absolute shocker themselves. 19 out if 20 times st kilda lose that game. This was the 1 time in 20 they got lucky