Review Good, Bad, Ugly v Collingwood

[from the begining]

I'd love to know the stats for hitout direct to opposition?

Ok firstly yes, id love a hit-out to disadvantage number and a neutral number. However i got sick of people using statistics to justify what anyone with any football knowledge can see, when someone has a range of hits which is 9 to 12, it becomes very very easy to shark ruck taps, additionally when opposition is bigger/ more experienced this piles on the differential (its also why Dawson has been great in midfield as he can help nullify these shortcomings). So let me be a hypocrite and use statistics to prove a point, and why using averages is a floored argument.

Averages for some ruckman, HOA, Obrien - 28%, Darcy - 27%, Draper - 28%, English - 33%, Grundy - 32%, Goldy - 38%, pittonet - 41%, Frampton - 25%.
Knowing averages hide a multitude of sins, lets look at games where ROB outperformed his average two stand out, GWS and Port at 39% and 37%, but also against Flynn and Lycett. Remove these games from averages and Rob is now at 24%, which is below Framptons %, this also doesn't account for his 50% ruck tap win %.... like where the hell do the other 25% of his winning taps go??

Food for thought also, against Frampton who is a second class ruckman, RoB averaged 21% hit out to advantage, from a 67% winning tap %...... let that and the fact some of those winning taps where unopposed on the wing sink in.

Me personally, id rather Straughn or others, win less taps, same tap to advantage for a young team who likes to be on front foot, but at least make it more unpredictable for opposition team to read - in lieu of the 9 to 12 same same crap...... but hey thats the stats anyone can make them sing and praise the mediocre.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Ok firstly yes, id love a hit-out to disadvantage number and a neutral number. However i got sick of people using statistics to justify what anyone with any football knowledge can see, when someone has a range of hits which is 9 to 12, it becomes very very easy to shark ruck taps, additionally when opposition is bigger/ more experienced this piles on the differential (its also why Dawson has been great in midfield as he can help nullify these shortcomings). So let me be a hypocrite and use statistics to prove a point, and why using averages is a floored argument.

Averages for some ruckman, HOA, Obrien - 28%, Darcy - 27%, Draper - 28%, English - 33%, Grundy - 32%, Goldy - 38%, pittonet - 41%, Frampton - 25%.
Knowing averages hide a multitude of sins, lets look at games where ROB outperformed his average two stand out, GWS and Port at 39% and 37%, but also against Flynn and Lycett. Remove these games from averages and Rob is now at 24%, which is below Framptons %, this also doesn't account for his 50% ruck tap win %.... like where the hell do the other 25% of his winning taps go??

Food for thought also, against Frampton who is a second class ruckman, RoB averaged 21% hit out to advantage, from a 67% winning tap %...... let that and the fact some of those winning taps where unopposed on the wing sink in.

Me personally, id rather Straughn or others, win less taps, same tap to advantage for a young team who likes to be on front foot, but at least make it more unpredictable for opposition team to read - in lieu of the 9 to 12 same same crap...... but hey thats the stats anyone can make them sing and praise the mediocre.

Straughan is a proper battler

His rep gets bigger the less games he plays in AFL side

Go watch him properly and you’ll see he’s a peg down from ROB

ROB is average to above average in comp ( top 8-13 ish)

So it’s a matter of what we need to spend to upgrade that … and whether you’d rather do that than address other needs

 

[CrowBloke]

So let me be a hypocrite and use statistics to prove a point, and why using averages is a floored argument.

Your stats certainly floored me.
Good work.

 

[from the begining]

Straughan is a proper battler

His rep gets bigger the less games he plays in AFL side

Go watch him properly and you’ll see he’s a peg down from ROB

ROB is average to above average in comp ( top 8-13 ish)

So it’s a matter of what we need to spend to upgrade that … and whether you’d rather do that than address other needs

Well then statistically we should have kept frampton whos better than rob . My point is ROB has a 9-12 tapping range which next to useless or disadvantage… perhaps some chaos would help.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Well then statistically we should have kept frampton whos better than rob . My point is ROB has a 9-12 tapping range which next to useless or disadvantage… perhaps some chaos would help.

Ya reckon Frampton is better than ROB ?

Okeeeeee

 

[MsTopG]

The loss on the weekend was extra deflating because it rolls into Geelong at Kardinia. Felt like two losses at once

Win this week and they can redeem themselves. Although I wouldn't be putting any money on it.

 

[rabidcrow]

What's the most goals Thilthorpe has kicked in a season?
How many did Tex kick last year and so far this year?

Thilthorpe will still be learning how to be a key forward over the next two to three years and won't have the output (most likely) of Tex in that time.
Which means we will be losing output when Tex goes.

Assuming no serious injury I expect Tex to still be on our list in 2025. Probably fading by then - aka Jack Reiwoldt


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[from the begining]

Ya reckon Frampton is better than ROB ?

Okeeeeee

No I don’t, no way hahahaha. but it proves my point on using statistics to back up opinion.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

No I don’t, no way hahahaha. but it proves my point on using statistics to back up opinion.

I do think the disappointing part of ROB’s game ( outside of his kicking ) is exactly what you pointed out

Do need to remember there’s another component and that is the mids themselves and also what the opposition does … collingwood mids really feasted on what we were serving up late in that game

I don’t think Straughan helps but we need to get better against good oppo in there

 

[from the begining]

I do think the disappointing part of ROB’s game ( outside of his kicking ) is exactly what you pointed out

Do need to remember there’s another component and that is the mids themselves and also what the opposition does … collingwood mids really feasted on what we were serving up late in that game

I don’t think Straughan helps but we need to get better against good oppo in there

This is the reason why I think chaos may benifit and also why Dawson going in has helped. We’re playing the youngsters and we need to continue to do so otherwise we go backwards, however they are 2-4 year players…. Even a dud midfielder if he knows where the tap is going can simply block them out as they’re not strong enough…. Get it into the open and allow our speed and quick hands, that’s a different story.

 

[CrowBloke]

Straughan is a proper battler

His rep gets bigger the less games he plays in AFL side

Go watch him properly and you’ll see he’s a peg down from ROB

ROB is average to above average in comp ( top 8-13 ish)

So it’s a matter of what we need to spend to upgrade that … and whether you’d rather do that than address other needs

Crows need to trade in another talented mid, not a rookie; maybe someone who used to barrack for them and wants to come back to Adelaide on the back of our development. Or two, say a Ben Keays type who can kick with both feet, jeez I wish!
I'd also take Keath back, but that's gone.
I've complained a lot about O'Brien, but only because he's an ex-BnF and I expect so much more of him.

However, you're gonna love this if you didn't know all ready :
202cm "ruckman" Aaron Keating played only his THIRD AFL game in the 1997 GF and has a Premiership medal.
In those 3 games he averaged 0.7 kicks, 1.7 handballs and 7.0 Hit-outs/game .


We don't need another ruckman.
We need a better midfield and forwards who can kick set-shot goals.

 

[CrowBloke]

Well then statistically we should have kept frampton whos better than rob . My point is ROB has a 9-12 tapping range which next to useless or disadvantage… perhaps some chaos would help.

I disagree strongly re: Frampton
BUT
I'd love to see the Crows use some chaos-ball, and not from poor kicking lol.

Not just keeping the ball moving in slippery conditions (tap-ons, slap-outs, soccer kicks) which the Pies did well on Sunday, and which Richmond did brilliantly 2017-2020.
I mean deliberate, grubbed, bouncy, end-over-end kicks forward into space and give our talented smalls a chance to mop up, especially if the talls are getting outmarked or intercepted eg NO AFL side should kick high to any spot where Aliir is lurking (but they do, and he laps up those intercepts), or Moore for that matter.

 

[MsTopG]

So many examples of this

We had outnumbers in our F50 and somehow couldn’t find them

Keays was alone 3x 10-15m out too

The goalkicking and ball use going I50 was equally as bad

Yeah we lost the unlosable game with many instances of waste and selfishness. Lairdy on sen said selfishness by some players wasnt addressed in the team meeting on Monday. Surely he was just bs'ing because if Nick's didn't address it I would be very surprised. That and goal kicking was the reason for the loss.

 

[CrowBloke]

Win this week and they can redeem themselves. Although I wouldn't be putting any money on it.

A win in that Cats' narrow litter box ringed by their feculent fans would be redemption indeed.
One-millionth of me is hoping-against-reality for such a miracle.

Geelong will kick the Crows out of the 8 this week and knock a dent in their % as well.
Michalanney will (or will try to) blanket one of Hawkins (8 goals last game) or Cameron ( <== more likely), but if one of the Twin Peaks doesn't getcha, the other one will.

 

[TheRankineFile]

Yeah we lost the unlosable game with many instances of waste and selfishness. Lairdy on sen said selfishness by some players wasnt addressed in the team meeting on Monday. Surely he was just bs'ing because if Nick's didn't address it I would be very surprised. That and goal kicking was the reason for the loss.

No point interviewing players. They just lie. I literally never listen to them unless straight after a game.

 

[MsTopG]

Tired of people talking up Collingwood like a dynasty team. Ye gods they havent made a GF yet. 8 of their best 22 were out yesterday.

We can only take solace that we lost to them by 70 points less than Port.

Melbourne and Geelong are the two strongest sides by a margin. Collingwood are a pretty good team but they have no key forward. Geelong will go B2B.

 

[ABAB]

Tired of people talking up Collingwood like a dynasty team. Ye gods they havent made a GF yet. 8 of their best 22 were out yesterday.

We can only take solace that we lost to them by 70 points less than Port.

Where are you getting 8 of their best 22 were out? Pendlebury (about to retire), Howe (about to retire) and Lipinski then there's Cox, McStay and Cameron who aren't as important as those 3.

 

[Mutineer]

Ok firstly yes, id love a hit-out to disadvantage number and a neutral number. However i got sick of people using statistics to justify what anyone with any football knowledge can see, when someone has a range of hits which is 9 to 12, it becomes very very easy to shark ruck taps, additionally when opposition is bigger/ more experienced this piles on the differential (its also why Dawson has been great in midfield as he can help nullify these shortcomings). So let me be a hypocrite and use statistics to prove a point, and why using averages is a floored argument.

Averages for some ruckman, HOA, Obrien - 28%, Darcy - 27%, Draper - 28%, English - 33%, Grundy - 32%, Goldy - 38%, pittonet - 41%, Frampton - 25%.
Knowing averages hide a multitude of sins, lets look at games where ROB outperformed his average two stand out, GWS and Port at 39% and 37%, but also against Flynn and Lycett. Remove these games from averages and Rob is now at 24%, which is below Framptons %, this also doesn't account for his 50% ruck tap win %.... like where the hell do the other 25% of his winning taps go??

Food for thought also, against Frampton who is a second class ruckman, RoB averaged 21% hit out to advantage, from a 67% winning tap %...... let that and the fact some of those winning taps where unopposed on the wing sink in.

Me personally, id rather Straughn or others, win less taps, same tap to advantage for a young team who likes to be on front foot, but at least make it more unpredictable for opposition team to read - in lieu of the 9 to 12 same same crap...... but hey thats the stats anyone can make them sing and praise the mediocre.

LOL

ROB destroys Strachan one one one in training, don't you get that, If it was the other way round Strachan would be in and ROB would be out....ROB might not be up there with the 2 or 3 best rucks in the comp but one thing is absolutely for certain he's better than Strachan and at least very competive and until we draft or recruit someone better he is it.

 

[MsTopG]

Where are you getting 8 of their best 22 were out? Pendlebury (about to retire), Howe (about to retire) and Lipinski then there's Cox, McStay and Cameron who aren't as important as those 3.

They pretty much had their best team minus pendles(who is coming to the end), cameron, howe and mcstay. McStay is no star btw. We were missing players as well. McAdam, Worrell, Berry are generally best 22 unless out of form.

 

[FR0GGY]

The champion data guy giving us a massive tick at the moment.
Said he’d pick us as the profile you’d want stats wise for certain markers.
Also said Nick Murray is nearly double the average win rate in a one on one contest.
Has only lost 2 from his last 20 contests and won 9 of them.

 

[cleanhands]

The champion data guy giving us a massive tick at the moment.
Said he’d pick us as the profile you’d want stats wise for certain markers.
Also said Nick Murray is nearly double the average win rate in a one on one contest.
Has only lost 2 from his last 20 contests and won 9 of them.

12 months ago I used to worry about him 1v1, at the moment he’s a beast

 

[MsTopG]

The champion data guy giving us a massive tick at the moment.
Said he’d pick us as the profile you’d want stats wise for certain markers.
Also said Nick Murray is nearly double the average win rate in a one on one contest.
Has only lost 2 from his last 20 contests and won 9 of them.

Daniel Hoyne from CD. Our stats are great for standing up in finals. Just need to improve our goal kicking accuracy which is 2nd worst in the league.

 

[TheRankineFile]

Where are you getting 8 of their best 22 were out? Pendlebury (about to retire), Howe (about to retire) and Lipinski then there's Cox, McStay and Cameron who aren't as important as those 3.

 

[Gtowncrow]

View attachment 1676122

And that would be the 23 minutes of our least pressure, least clearances, least forward thrusts and least scoring.

I won't blame this on Schoey alone as there were many factors beyond him. But as a fresh player playing around those stoppages, 23 minutes was enough to provide the evidence of my opinion.

I need to look at the replay but I think it was Schoey who punched the ball to space which lead to the decisive (match winning) Noble goal with 2.00 to go. A smarter player would have brought the ball to ground and absorbed the tackle.
If this was not Schoey, I'll happily retract this particular play from his otherwise completely ineffectual 23 minutes.

 

[Mutineer]

The champion data guy giving us a massive tick at the moment.
Said he’d pick us as the profile you’d want stats wise for certain markers.
Also said Nick Murray is nearly double the average win rate in a one on one contest.
Has only lost 2 from his last 20 contests and won 9 of them.

Nah I just read above that Champion Data stats are meaningless......










*Only when it suits their agenda of course...