Review Good, Bad & Ugly vs Essendon

[Mike Smyth]

Ah no, it encapsulates the the growing mood of certain members on BigFooty. I mean s**t, some of you look into the smallest of things way too deeply.

So you would be okay if we continue on as we have for the last decade? Supporters like you are the reason why this club is at the lowest point in it's history.

Go the mighty Panthers !

 

[Rear Admiral]

There a reason Thommo doesn't gets a tag, the opposition are happy for him to get the ball because he doesn't hurt you, he can't run and carry and his disposal is ordinary at best.

He also can't spread/chase his opposite number when they are attacking - a big reason why we seem to be outnumbered alot of the time - he is OK when it is congested and he has time to get to the next bounce.

He has been a great player for us but the game has gone past him, he can't keep up and his disposal (which has always been questionable) is getting shown up even more as these days you need even more precision to break through the defensive setups.

Thanks rocket18 - well said .

A very valid point.

What I'm fed up with is people rating player performance on number of possessions gathered. Sure, if you're a Midfielder that can barely manage 10 touches, then it's obvious you're not up to scratch. But what I'm utterly sick and tired of is players being put on a pedestal purely because of their total possession count. And a prime example of this is Thommo. Make no mistake, he gets a lot of the ball, but what does he actually do with it? Typically hand it off to the next player 2 metres away without taking more than 3 steps. And as it's been stated, he rarely gets tagged. For a prime ball-gatherer, this speaks volumes. What smart coaches do is target the prime ball movers, more so than the ball getters.
If you want to measure a player's effectiveness during a game, look at two basic stats above all others:

• How many goals they kick.
• How much effective mileage do they make with the Ball....towards goals, either by running or disposal that hits a target. Not bl00dy sideways passes.

And completely and utterly forget about possession count. If we were able to measure this - i.e. effective yardage gained - this would put things in an entirely different perspective. Then I'd like to see how Thommo fares. We need blokes that can seriously move the Ball forwards, not play pass-the-parcel.

Time and again I've seen us win the stoppage/clearance count, only to lose the game. We clear the ball out from the congestion, only to cough it up 2-3 possessions later. Unfortunately, Sando is in love with Thommo because he is good at winning the in-and-under hard ball, but absolutely nothing else.

 

[BobaFett]

Thanks rocket18 - well said .

A very valid point.

What I'm fed up with is people rating player performance on number of possessions gathered. Sure, if you're a Midfielder that can barely manage 10 touches, then it's obvious you're not up to scratch. But what I'm utterly sick and tired of is players being put on a pedestal purely because of their total possession count. And a prime example of this is Thommo. Make no mistake, he gets a lot of the ball, but what does he actually do with it? Typically hand it off to the next player 2 metres away without taking more than 3 steps. And as it's been stated, he rarely gets tagged. For a prime ball-gatherer, this speaks volumes. What smart coaches do is target the prime ball movers, more so than the ball getters.
If you want to measure a player's effectiveness during a game, look at two basic stats above all others:

• How many goals they kick.
• How much effective mileage do they make with the Ball....towards goals, either by running or disposal that hits a target. Not bl00dy sideways passes.

And completely and utterly forget about possession count. If we were able to measure this - i.e. effective yardage gained - this would put things in an entirely different perspective. Then I'd like to see how Thommo fares. We need blokes that can seriously move the Ball forwards, not play pass-the-parcel.

Time and again I've seen us win the stoppage/clearance count, only to lose the game. We clear the ball out from the congestion, only to cough it up 2-3 possessions later. Unfortunately, Sando is in love with Thommo because he is good at winning the in-and-under hard ball, but absolutely nothing else.

100% agree. Thommo can't run in a forwards motion at all, all he is capable of is giving a handball why diving forwards to the ground, or a 40 metres pass of one step, which is usually a mongrel punt. His game was severely overrated on the weekend

 

[DD#23]

You are surely kidding right? Coaches always get asked who they think could have a breakout year in the preseason, I'm sure all other 17 coaches were asked the same question and gave up a player's name. What a ridiculous thing to criticise.

I'm not criticising him for saying it, but its yet another example of Sando running his mouth followed by he, the team or a player not being able to back it up.

What about "our forward line would be the envy of the competition" that's a great line to drop from outside the 8 isn't it?

 

[TooFar]

I saw Sando's post match press conference, and from what I saw, he was 99% spot on. In particular, he talked about effort -vs- execution. Without a doubt, every AFL player out on the paddock gives everything they've got - it's not an issue of lack of guts, effort, or determination. What's destroying us now is our quality of execution when absolutely exhausted and under pressure. We forever fumble, shank kicks, etc. And while Sando is definitely responsible for our skills coaching, no question about it, I just think we lack what the best teams have - absolute razor-sharp technicians once they have possession of the Pill. Truck (I consider our best), Reilly (some of the time), and a few others have brilliant, sharp disposals by foot....but these guys are not our primary ball-getters and movers - they are more Defenders/receivers of the Pill. If you look at our "Gun" ball-getters (especially through the Middle), their disposal skills are shocking. Thommo, Dangermouse (clearly injured at the moment), Sloane, etc - they are as courageous as you'll ever find. But watch what happens when they put the Ball on the boot - it's like a boat with nobody steering. But when I have occasionally seen Truck gather possessions further upfield, his disposal to hit team mates in the tightest of situations is absolutely amazing - he can land the Ball on a 5 cent piece from over 50m away. I have seen him make some horrendous handballing decisions on occasion, but his disposal by foot is typically pure precision. Not so with our prime movers in the Midfield - couldn't hit a barn door at 5 paces. This is what's causing our endless bl00dy turnovers. Look at the Collingwood game - that was one of the ultra-rare rare occasions we hit team mates by foot through the Middle. Result? We won the game. But for the most part, we seriously lack foot skills through the Middle.

But where I am seriously pissed off with the coaching panel is our f*cking horrendous starts/First Quarters. This is where Sando needs the f*cking blowtorch. What the f*ck is going on here?!? It's like watching an old movie on re-run....just keeps happening over and over and over again. I think part of the problem with this is that when we lose it quickly out of the Middle and the opposition lay it on the boot - our Defenders downfield seem way, way, waaaaaaay too slow at catching opponents on leads. As much as I despise having to do this, if it's obvious Sauce is getting smashed out of the Middle, we need to put (at least) two extra blokes in Defence....let the opposition win the Centre Clearances, then reload across halfback. Until we get Hendo and some other Defenders with serious toe out on the Paddock, we need to chop off opposition Forwards on the lead. This is what killed us in the First Quarter. It wasn't just that we lost the Centre Clearances, but Truck and Co. couldn't get within a brass razoo of their leading opponents....repeatedly. Essendon Forwards weren't taking contested marks, but easy uncontested marks, miles ahead of their chasing Crows opponents.

Apart from our God-awful general field-kicking (which is not entirely Sando's fault), I literally lost count of the number of easy, uncontested marks Essendon took....all over the ground. The nearest Crows player was no closer than 5m behind. This is a big, big issue that contributed to our loss.

In regards to you first paragraph, Cornes grilled Sando about this in his interview yesterday. Sando conceded that he has only 40 minutes per week to simulate match day conditions and intensity. Cornes said "but you're the head coach, demand more time", but Sando went on about recovery, conditioning etc.

Now I'm not sure how much time other teams spend on match day simulation and intensity, but 40 minutes per week does not seem like nearly enough to me.

 

[King Elvis]

The results speak for themselves.

 

[Smoooothy]

So you would be okay if we continue on as we have for the last decade? Supporters like you are the reason why this club is at the lowest point in it's history.

Go the mighty Panthers !

you're kidding yourself if you think this is the lowest point in our history

thats still coming, we haven't bottomed out yet

 

[Wood_Duck]

So you would be okay if we continue on as we have for the last decade? Supporters like you are the reason why this club is at the lowest point in it's history.

Go the mighty Panthers !

Supporters like Baccs are the least of our worries.

 

[FR0GGY]

Supporters like Baccs are the least of our worries.

Coaches, CEO's and Chairman's like BACCS?

 

[MarcusP2]

Ugly: Howlett's 'goal' is winning goal of the week.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Ugly: Howlett's 'goal' is winning goal of the week.

Was Howlett's goal that might have skimmed the post karma for Eddie's goal that might have been out of bounds?

 

[Mr_Moogle]

In regards to you first paragraph, Cornes grilled Sando about this in his interview yesterday. Sando conceded that he has only 40 minutes per week to simulate match day conditions and intensity. Cornes said "but you're the head coach, demand more time", but Sando went on about recovery, conditioning etc.

Now I'm not sure how much time other teams spend on match day simulation and intensity, but 40 minutes per week does not seem like nearly enough to me.

This interview proved how much of a dud Sando really is. He also doesn't think we need any new coaches.

 

[thebeedee]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/af...view/story-fndv8gad-1226962817863#mm-breached

I think that the AFL need to bite the bullet and make goalkicking like soccer, in off the post is a goal (as many on our board suggested). The goal review is still WOEFULLY inadequate as the AFL refuse to spend the money to make it a better system.

 

[Rear Admiral]

you're kidding yourself if you think this is the lowest point in our history

thats still coming, we haven't bottomed out yet

 

[Rear Admiral]

100% agree. Thommo can't run in a forwards motion at all, all he is capable of is giving a handball why diving forwards to the ground, or a 40 metres pass of one step, which is usually a mongrel punt. His game was severely overrated on the weekend

Spot on. But unfortunately, unless Thommo gets seriously injured, he won't be going anywhere until he retires. Sando's in love with him, and this won't change.

 

[Rear Admiral]

This interview proved how much of a dud Sando really is. He also doesn't think we need any new coaches.

While Sando may or may not be a dud, and his assistant coaches may or may not need to be replaced (I think Bicks, Campo, and Clarke should've been replaced ages ago).....no coach is ever going to come out and publicly berate his assistants. Ever. The same way the playing group is never going to bag the coach, no matter what they think personally. To question players and coaches over this publicly - the official response you're going to get from them won't change....until the day they decide to get rid of them. If people from the media are going to keep questioning coaches on these points publicly, all that's gonna happen is the coach will, as much as possible, ignore that journalist/presenter from then on.

You can pretty much etch that in granite.

 

[King Elvis]

I don't think Thommo is THE problem, while acknowledging the flaws in his game; he's doing his job in getting the footy, it'd be nice if he had some support or some people outside of the contest to receive it from him.

 

[Rear Admiral]

I don't think Thommo is THE problem, while acknowledging the flaws in his game; he's doing his job in getting the footy, it'd be nice if he had some support or some people outside of the contest to receive it from him.

Thommo is PART OF the problem, but what you're saying definitely makes sense - we don't have any quality players/structures on the outside of the congestion. I agree this is a major issue.

But what about when the opposition gets the Pill in the Midfield and we need Thommo to chase? It's worse than drinking warm, stale beer .

Almost every time we cough up a turnover, the opposition gets a goal.

 

[MarcusP2]

Was Howlett's goal that might have skimmed the post karma for Eddie's goal that might have been out of bounds?

I think it was a lot more clear cut than Eddie's. Of course I'm partisan but it certainly looked like a big change in angle.

 

[skoobydoo]

Thommo is PART OF the problem, but what you're saying definitely makes sense - we don't have any quality players/structures on the outside of the congestion. I agree this is a major issue.

But what about when the opposition gets the Pill in the Midfield and we need Thommo to chase? It's worse than drinking warm, stale beer .

Almost every time we cough up a turnover, the opposition gets a goal.

Agree. If we have any sort of structured/planned ball movement outside of stoppages/congestion, apart from the haphazard defensive rushed kick, it is yet to clearly show. Where we are comes down to BALL MOVEMENT !!!

 

[VSTone]

Just so we all know, here's the centre bounce numpties that led to the Essendon demolition and a 42-9 lead late in the 1st.

Of the 8 bounces, Essendon cleared 6 (one would've been a Douglas clearance but Kerridge gave a free away), one led to a subsequent ball up, and one was scrubbed laterally by Kerridge with Dangerfield handing the ball to opposition with basic handball error at the secondary pack. So 6-1-1 might as well have been 7-1-0 (Essendon-Neutral-Adelaide).

Awesome start to the match in which we were assured we were getting off the roller coaster.

So who contested the 8 bounces:

Jacobs 8/8
Thompson 7/8
Kerridge 7/8
Dangerfield 6/8
Douglas 3/8
Sloane 1/8.

Well done to the leaders (and tagger)

why we don't use Jacobs to Lyons to Danger/Douglas/Smith in the centre bounces is...
is it because we prefer to go Jacobs to Thommo to chaos?

 

[Mr_Moogle]

While Sando may or may not be a dud, and his assistant coaches may or may not need to be replaced (I think Bicks, Campo, and Clarke should've been replaced ages ago).....no coach is ever going to come out and publicly berate his assistants. Ever. The same way the playing group is never going to bag the coach, no matter what they think personally. To question players and coaches over this publicly - the official response you're going to get from them won't change....until the day they decide to get rid of them. If people from the media are going to keep questioning coaches on these points publicly, all that's gonna happen is the coach will, as much as possible, ignore that journalist/presenter from then on.

You can pretty much etch that in granite.

I wouldn't expect him to berate his assistants. Just some acknowledgement that improvement is needed from his coaching group would be enough. Instead all we get is Sando telling us we have the right people, they just need to try a bit harder.

 

[Rear Admiral]

I wouldn't expect him to berate his assistants. Just some acknowledgement that improvement is needed from his coaching group would be enough. Instead all we get is Sando telling us we have the right people, they just need to try a bit harder.

I'd love to see Sando (or any Crows coach that we happen to have) make any sort of comments like you said, but will never happen until they get shown the door (if that ever happens).

I'm just hoping that Roo's arrival on the Board will give a few people a big shake up, both on and off the field.

 

[Schulzycrow]

Anyone got a link to Sando's interview on AA yesterday. Wanted to hear it, but life got in the way...damn life.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Anyone got a link to Sando's interview on AA yesterday. Wanted to hear it, but life got in the way...damn life.