Review Good/Bad vs Hawthorn, R17 2022

[Dangerousfield]

The club will justify the non-firing of Hamish by trying Jones in every possible position on the ground to find out he can't play. What's next, Ruck?

Davis was pick 75 in the 2016 draft, now in his 6th season with us, yes, that's correct 6th season - why?

So if we're prepared to give six seasons to a nothing number 75 pick, how many season do you think we'll give a nothing number 9 pick whose already had four seasons?

Maybe try Jones as a ruck, can't do any worse

 

[MRB37]

Murray actually had a somewhat decent game. He had to be put on Lewis after Butts was having a nightmare, combined with Hawks giving him great service.

Once again though the problem is that they're both lock-down defenders with zero creativity. What is Doedee doing? Is he playing as an interceptor or a lock down role? If he's lock down then we don't need and additional two dour KPF's to go along with him.

Check this out.
Hawthorn V Adelaide Crows
FB - James Blanck, Jack Scrimshaw, Finn Maginness = 599m gained, 50 disposals
HB - Josh Ward, James Sicily, Blake Hardwick = 1753m gained, 95 disposals
Add Changkuoth Jiath to this list because he played as a roaming spare defender/running HB as well.


FB - Tom Doedee, Jordon Butts, Jordan Dawson = 703m gained, 46 disposals
HB - Brodie Smith, Nick Murray, Will Hamill = 1290m gained (*809 from Smith Alone) 65 disposals
Add Parnell to this list ad small defender

These are absolutely insane numbers by Hawks defenders, and I implore you to do a bit a deep dive if you really want to kick your Monday-itis into overdrive.

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At the moment we're lacking a lot of creativity and run throughout the park, particularly from our backline, and our forward line is FAR too tall/slow at the moment, and opposition defences are just being told to run it out. The likes of Fog/Thilthorpe and Tex don't have the leg speed or repeated effort capabilities to apply pressure. A massive issue as well is that our smaller players across the park have minimal leg speed too. Rowe and McHenry are good at running around like headless chooks, but neither are actually quick. Throw in poor disposal & clangers and it's a recipe for disaster.

Slow, slow, slow all over the park. Slow moving the ball from the back and transition, slow in applying pressure just about everywhere, slow outside the contest..

It's definitely down to speed. Hawks are absolute guns, they want to move the ball like lightning and especially want to take it down the corridor. We generally go direct, but it's slow and controlled, they want to shift the ball around a bit to see what's open and then take the safety of the boundary (controlled) if the corridor isn't an option.

That safety of the boundary line is part of the risk minimisation strategy Nicks has employed, at worst plan that you can create a stoppage at the boundary and reset with the extra number(s) to regain control. The issue then is we just hack it forwards and the opposition know to leave a number back to take possession again.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Davis was pick 75 in the 2016 draft, now in his 6th season with us, yes, that's correct 6th season - why?

A well run club would take their chances with a late pick in the ND or take another in the rookie draft. Instead we chose to retain a player who's been there for ages and one we had no intention of playing. It's just totally unacceptable list management. You don't retain dead-weight because they're popular around the club.

 

[NSWCROW]

You gotta have some hope else why bother

It's the hope that kills ya

 

[arrowman]

you have a newborn baby

giving less shits week after week,

It's going to be more than a few weeks, mate.

 

[refused_]

Good:
Tassie will win a AFL flag before we do.

Bad:
I had to watch 15 minutes of the first quarter.

Ugly:
We actually got a freekick for holding the ball in the time I watched watching that slop. Someone should investigate how much the payment was to get that free kick.

 

[Geoffa32]

Yeah, but then we'll have Nicks developing him and, soon enough, suck all of the confidence out of him.

Thilthorpe is developing nicely.

As is Berry

Rachele will get there and Sog showing great signs.

Schoenberg will come good too.


The issue is certainly our drafting. Not so much development. Although I will say our development is not stellar. But you need the cattle.


No one here was excited when we drafted the likes of Gallucci, Jones, McHenry and even McAsey.

No amount of "development " is ever going to turn Jones or McHenry into elite mids.



Time to move Haggis on. Dangerfield was the last potential elite mid we have drafted. And even if you want to include Sloane and B Crouch, that is also a long time ago.

Every other club has identified and drafted elite midfield talent since we drafted Dangerfield. Most clubs two. Midfield is key in the AFL.




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[cleanhands]

Thilthorpe is developing nicely.

Rachele will get there and Sog showing great signs.

Schoenberg will come good too.


The issue is certainly our drafting. Not so much development. Although I will say our development is not stellar. But you need the cattle.


No one here was excited when we drafted the likes of Gallucci, Jones, McHenry and even McAsey.

No amount of "development " is ever going to turn Jones or McHenry into elite mids.



Time to move Haggis on. Dangerfield was the last potential elite mid we have drafted. And even if you want to include Sloane and B Crouch, that is also a long time ago.

Every other club has identified and drafted elite midfield talent since we drafted Dangerfield. Most clubs two. Midfield is key in the AFL.




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Under our current coaching and game plan nothing is going make any difference, if we keep his defence first bulls**t, that’s what confuses players

 

[Geoffa32]

Under our current coaching and game plan nothing is going make any difference, if we keep his defence first bulls**t, that’s what confuses players

If the rubbish gameplan we had in the first half is Nicks plan A, and I fear it is, I agree.

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[Burtonsgottago]

Im not going to go on too much about the umpiring but I hate those in the back frees when the oppo player is already lying on the bloody ground. What do they expect the tackling player to do there? Flip them over?

Well said

 

[Crow_Magnon]

Chayce Jones a real worry

Struggled defensively and got hopelessly outpointed a few times both on the ground and in the air. Plus not generating much rebound at all. Even one of his switch kicks across the ground under zero pressure missed Butts (I think) by a mile and Butts had to chase it down and regather.

How did we ever pick this guy...surely he had some semblance of being a footballer to be picked up at a high draft selection? I just can't see how we can get these selections so wrong. I get the KP players take longer, but our midfield picks should be pretty much ready made, give or take a few kgs of muscle.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Chayce Jones a real worry

Struggled defensively and got hopelessly outpointed a few times both on the ground and in the air. Plus not generating much rebound at all. Even one of his switch kicks across the ground under zero pressure missed Butts (I think) by a mile and Butts had to chase it down and regather.

And he also nailed a pass to McHenry so there is a weapon in his leg.

In 2019 he wasn't terrible with midfield minutes
But 2020 was abysmal and embarrassing. I was nearly ready to give up
2021-early 2022 I felt he was actually decent down back. However, the last month we've moved him onto the players Brown was on, while Parnell has came in and is playing on who Jones was previously playing.

Parnell is doing what Jones was. Where-as Jones is being monstered by the slightly bigger/more experienced players.

But it's obvious Parnell/Jones both down back isn't a good idea.

What I'd actually do is bring Brown back in to the backline, move Jones up onto the wing, and cut Hately. Gives Jones the last month or two to prove himself there. Hopefully the confidence he's found himself in 21 and early 22 can help him on the wing. Because I do feel there's something there. And yes, I realise I'm saying put him back to the position he was worst at. But everyone was trash in 2020 (other than ROB.......Who's been trash since) and his confidence took a massive hit. I think one last go there is worth it. And I believe he'd succeed there.

 

[GROTTO]

Time to move Haggis on. Dangerfield was the last potential elite mid we have drafted. And even if you want to include Sloane and B Crouch, that is also a long time ago.

Every other club has identified and drafted elite midfield talent since we drafted Dangerfield. Most clubs two. Midfield is key in the AFL.




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Good post.

This is often ignored. We have not even drafted a mid that is even in a B class category, let alone A Class or elite.

With our Danger trade, we got Milera (and some steak knives I cant even remember). Let me pause on that, we had the opportunity to have drafted, Curnow, Hipwood, Kennedy or Rioli were selected after our Milera pick.

If the opportunity to get JHF is there for our 1st rounder pick this year and next, you do the deal. Even if its a bust. History suggests we are going to butcher our first in any case.

 

[CrowBloke]

Chayce Jones a real worry

Struggled defensively and got hopelessly outpointed a few times both on the ground and in the air. Plus not generating much rebound at all. Even one of his switch kicks across the ground under zero pressure missed Butts (I think) by a mile and Butts had to chase it down and regather.

Yep. I have a lot more confidence in Hamill and Hinge than I do Jones, both in regards to defensive work and rebound

If you were a young player at AFC that didn’t know what position you’d be playing from one quarter to the next, you’d probably play like s**t too.

He was named and likely told he was playing wing for the game. Experiment ended at quarter time.

I’m surprised he didn’t curl up in the goal square and suck his thumb the whole game.

Jones ... sigh.

My impression is he's an instinctive player; plays via reflex and love of the game. He looked good in the first 1/4 on Sunday.
Making him play back, one-on-one, forces him to think too much and worry about the bloke he's on.

 

[CrowBloke]

We really need to add a high-possession-winning rebounder to our mix.

We had one; have one still.
Laird.

 

[Danger in Texas]

We had one; have one still.
Laird.

Someone more dynamic as a defender than Laird (and yes, I do think he’ll go back to defence eventually), I’m thinking prime Brodie-type rebound

 

[CrowBloke]

Someone more dynamic as a defender than Laird (and yes, I do think he’ll go back to defence eventually), I’m thinking prime Brodie-type rebound

I'm an old fart, memory getting weak.
Didn't Pyke say that if he was coaching the opposition, he'd tag Laird? One of the things I liked about Laird's game back then was his rebound and carry. Smithers too.
We've missed Seedsman, too; I hope he'll be ok.

 

[craig crowing]

I think any pretense the club has about being on the right track or of progress being made would be shattered by now.

Yes we're a young team & list but you want to see improvement and there hasn't been any. Regression in a lot of cases.

The problem we have is that the senior players we have kept aren't good enough to carry us through a rebuild and out the other side. They aren't good enough to keep us competitive, to bring younger players into the game and to set standards in term of performance.

Tex and to a degree Laird aside.

With no quality leadership the young players flounder and don't develop. It's not a positive growth environment. We're just copping a hammering and occasionally are all frantic enough at the same time to grind out a win.

We can't just wait until guys have 50 or 100 games because they won't develop into the players we need in this environment.

Given that we've backed the wrong senior players, or overestimated their quality in some instances (ROB, Smith, Brown, Crouch), we need to add 3 or 4 good senior guys before we worry about whether Cook or Rachele or Thilthorpe or whoever are going to become A Graders.

Previously we've spoken about guys like Shannon Hurn and Shane Edwards on this board as targets. They're both too old now but I'd be seeking out a couple of others.

Tex is really our only senior player and that's not enough.

The club would surely now realise we're staring down the decade rebuild abyss and need to take significant action.

I know Hamish cops some grief but I think the talent that has come in in recent years is actually good but the major problems lie elsewhere.

How do you come to the decision that our drafting has been good DABM with all the top first round picks we have had and so many duds and really at this stage although some showed glimpses ,not one has totally proved worthy of that 1st round pick yet .
If you disagree list them with reasons or I can.

 

[MRB37]

Interesting looking at the numbers that in the first quarter Crouch was at 6 of the 7 centre bounces and then after that 6 goal to 1 quarter was essentially moved out and only attended a further 5 (3 in the 4th) of the next 14. Essentially went to Laird, Keays, Berry as the preferred trio and peppered in a few minutes to Schoenberg in the 2nd quarter and Soligo, Crouch Hately in the 4th.

 

[safeandsound]

Interesting looking at the numbers that in the first quarter Crouch was at 6 of the 7 centre bounces and then after that 6 goal to 1 quarter was essentially moved out and only attended a further 5 (3 in the 4th) of the next 14. Essentially went to Laird, Keays, Berry as the preferred trio and peppered in a few minutes to Schoenberg in the 2nd quarter and Soligo, Crouch Hately in the 4th.

Yep , and we broke even after that move with Berry being our most effective 2 way mid again .

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

How do you come to the decision that our drafting has been good DABM with all the top first round picks we have had and so many duds and really at this stage although some showed glimpses ,not one has totally proved worthy of that 1st round pick yet .
If you disagree list them with reasons or I can.

I didn't say our drafting has been good, I referred only to our recent drafting

 

[FR0GGY]

And he also nailed a pass to McHenry so there is a weapon in his leg.

In 2019 he wasn't terrible with midfield minutes
But 2020 was abysmal and embarrassing. I was nearly ready to give up
2021-early 2022 I felt he was actually decent down back. However, the last month we've moved him onto the players Brown was on, while Parnell has came in and is playing on who Jones was previously playing.

Parnell is doing what Jones was. Where-as Jones is being monstered by the slightly bigger/more experienced players.

But it's obvious Parnell/Jones both down back isn't a good idea.

What I'd actually do is bring Brown back in to the backline, move Jones up onto the wing, and cut Hately. Gives Jones the last month or two to prove himself there. Hopefully the confidence he's found himself in 21 and early 22 can help him on the wing. Because I do feel there's something there. And yes, I realise I'm saying put him back to the position he was worst at. But everyone was trash in 2020 (other than ROB.......Who's been trash since) and his confidence took a massive hit. I think one last go there is worth it. And I believe he'd succeed there.

How many last months does jones get. He’s done

 

[Scorpus]

Interesting looking at the numbers that in the first quarter Crouch was at 6 of the 7 centre bounces and then after that 6 goal to 1 quarter was essentially moved out and only attended a further 5 (3 in the 4th) of the next 14. Essentially went to Laird, Keays, Berry as the preferred trio and peppered in a few minutes to Schoenberg in the 2nd quarter and Soligo, Crouch Hately in the 4th.

So you're saying we brought in Crouch thinking he would improve us, we got absolutely destroyed in the midfield, so Nicks had to get rid of him

It's almost like there was something we could have done before the match to prevent this

 

[Geoffa32]

Interesting looking at the numbers that in the first quarter Crouch was at 6 of the 7 centre bounces and then after that 6 goal to 1 quarter was essentially moved out and only attended a further 5 (3 in the 4th) of the next 14. Essentially went to Laird, Keays, Berry as the preferred trio and peppered in a few minutes to Schoenberg in the 2nd quarter and Soligo, Crouch Hately in the 4th.

You would think that means they realised Crouch needs to be out of our midfield.

Can't play anywhere else. Should be dropped.


But won't be.




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[MRB37]

You would think that means they realised Crouch needs to be out of our midfield.

Can't play anywhere else. Should be dropped.


But won't be.




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They backed themselves into a corner selecting him again and then talking him up before the game ("Nicks wants Crouch to stay next year"). They at least had McHenry coming back as the excuse to drop Murphy last week. Constantly make themselves look like dills yo-yoing the same people in and out and expecting different results.