Review Good/Bad vs Richmond

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CrowBloke

Norm Smith Medallist
May 14, 2017
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Yep...a repeat of the "unsocial football" approach used by Hawthorn.
I fear only a Victorian team can get away with this approach while its still a VFL run compitition.
I don't mind 'unsociable football', which the Crows played vs. Geelong in the 2017 PF. I loved that game, but it was our peak, I think :'(. Have they played a better game since then?
I see what Richmond do and it's obviously coached into them --- Dimma, take a bow --- so-called "professional" acts all over the ground (blatant illegal holding, in-the-back, flopping, as in the compilation video I posted yesterday). I think the mindset is "If you get away with it, great, that's to our advantage. If you don't, we'll reset quickly".
Yes, the Hawks showed the way and Hardwick who is a Clarkson apprentice has taken it to new depths. The Flags of the last 20 years are dominated by teams who play win-at-all-costs footy (West Coast and Sydney notable exceptions), and rules be damned.
 

StonesThrow

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 21, 2008
8,767
8,711
Adelaide
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I find it funny that instead of Victorian "powerhouse" clubs humbly accepting they have clear advantages in hosting and controlling every aspect of the "National competition"
They instead have a complete arrogance, sense of entitlement and superiority complex that makes them almost unbearable to those outside the Vic bubble.
I live here in Vic.....and its the same attitude that lead to the secind Virus outbreak.
They might "own" the footy.....and the "most livable city in the world"(in their eyes) ....but the arrogance, selfishness, obnoxiousness etc is fast catching up with them.

Adelaide on the otherhand is a nice city filled with down to earth, friendly people (on the most part)
Im not jealous of what Victorians have...its made them horrible people (on the most part) ....i'll be moving out of this sh*t hole when the borders open back up and bringing my family and life savings back to Adelaide.
My brothers family are doing the same.
Melbourne is a city in decline...if anything we should pity them.
you sound very bitter
 

CrowBloke

Norm Smith Medallist
May 14, 2017
6,365
5,862
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I find it funny that instead of Victorian "powerhouse" clubs humbly accepting they have clear advantages in hosting and controlling every aspect of the "National competition"
They instead have a complete arrogance, sense of entitlement and superiority complex that makes them almost unbearable to those outside the Vic bubble.
I live here in Vic.....and its the same attitude that lead to the secind Virus outbreak.
They might "own" the footy.....and the "most livable city in the world"(in their eyes) ....but the arrogance, selfishness, obnoxiousness etc is fast catching up with them.

Adelaide on the otherhand is a nice city filled with down to earth, friendly people (on the most part)
Im not jealous of what Victorians have...its made them horrible people (on the most part) ....i'll be moving out of this sh*t hole when the borders open back up and bringing my family and life savings back to Adelaide.
My brothers family are doing the same.
Melbourne is a city in decline...if anything we should pity them.
Wow, that's scathing, and brave. Don't be subtle; say what you mean ;) .

(makes my replies to the Richmond trolls look like praise, lol)
 

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BringbackWebb

Debutant
May 30, 2019
60
122
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Yep...a repeat of the "unsocial football" approach used by Hawthorn.
I fear only a Victorian team can get away with this approach while its still a VFL run compitition.
I strongly agree with you there, my lasting impression of the game was that Richmond were playing a completely different game with different rules!

They obviously are a well drilled team and are playing well connected football that comes with seasons of consistent understanding amongst the playing group, no issue there, however the constant bending of rules to the limit and daring the officials to stop them from either holding, pushing, throwing, following through with intent to cause damage etc... is the point that stood out to me, and to your point it seems the umpires lose their nerve on the top Victorian based sides and have some sort of limit as to how much they penalise them.

I am sure my old school sports master used to say the rules are the rules and if you have integrity and a sense of what is right you should always play within those rules even if the umpires are not there on the ground with you! Unfortunately we used to lose most of the time too, but at least we had our integrity!
 

Vhaluus

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2016
12,610
13,882
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Don't blame sides for dodgy tactics.

Blame the poor umpiring that lets them get away with it.

If the umpires actually umpired to the rules of the game rather than their ever changing 'interpretations' the game would be better all around.

Whoever thought that letting 'interpretations' change week on week without any change to written rules was a way to run a professional sporting competition needs to have a good hard look at themselves.
 

SaltPeter

"I’m a professional bullshitter"
Suspended
Jan 6, 2018
10,133
11,561
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I think goal kicking was an issue again. McAdam and Himmelberg missing set shots they really should've kicked. Walker missing from wide just inside the 50 when he had options on the inside.

I'm not saying Adelaide would've won, however there were times when we had opportunities and blew them
 

Genghis Tron

ТЕМНЫЙ РЕЖИМ
Apr 6, 2020
2,792
5,671
AFL Club
Richmond
[
Thank you for the sincere gloating. Most of the other Richmond posters in here have been merely annoying, gloating insincerely, but I nominate yours as Richmond-supporter-post-of-the-thread, with a prize hopefully of a little holiday for trolling :D.

I can't speak for 'us lot', but my personal view is that in a few short harmless-sounding sentences you managed to rub our noses in the 2017 GF loss (your 'disappointment' that we've proved not to be the rivals you hoped for is patronising, to say the least) and the fact we've claimed our first wooden spoon. Maybe we'll use Pick#1 in the drafts to get enough grubby, flopping players to be good enough for you.

1) Yes, it sounded like gloating, but the sincerity of it makes it ok; wholesome, even. I can't say that I hold St. Kilda ('97) or North Melbourne ('98) in such misty-eyed esteem. It would be insulting.
2) The rivalry is there from this side but you, Genghis, Khant see it because Richmond have been so good, so mighty, and we've fallen so far that we're not really rivals to you. Just some lot you beat in your first grand final. And Saturday.

Might sound like salty resentment but this is sincere; gee, I hope we'll be strong/good enough one day to challenge your mighty Tigers in 'a little rivalry' --- just as long as we continue to lose, right? :rolleyes: ;)
I can't tell if you're serious or not. You're good 😂 Wasn't trying to troll. "little rivalry" and "you lot" weren't meant to be demeaning, just how I talk. Sue me for growing a soft spot for the crows due to the GF. I would have done even if you thrashed us. Never thought I'd see Richmond in a grand final so everything, even the opposition club, is special to me. I figure the rivalry isn't there because quite frankly the crows have bigger things to worry about than hyping up a match with some vic club, I know most talk of rivalry was hugely reduced during our ling reign of shitness. rivalry might be here between the supporters but I don't feel we've had any of those heated, frantic rival like matches other clubs seem to. Wasn't trying to big up Richmond, success is always temporary, it's not like we've made it now and will be OK for the next thousand years.

Apologies for sounding like a troll, but I think that's a 50% split of me being bad with words and the AFLworld being perhaps ever so slightly over sensitive to Richmond fans. I'm not saying we don't have trolls, but Y'know... I came here to ask a trade question and give support to a club I think deserves better than this year.
 

Vhaluus

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2016
12,610
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Really good point about the Umpires. Intimidated, gutless, biased after years of VFL/AFL pro-Vic favouritism.
And the thing is if the umpires aren't going to enforce a rule that rule effectively doesn't exist.

These are professionals striving to do absolutely everything they can to win, they've spent their entire lives chasing this and millions of dollars are on the line. It would be negligence for them NOT to take every advantage they can find.
 

Scrogdogg

Club Legend
May 29, 2018
1,103
984
AFL Club
Adelaide
He really isn't that far down the problem list considering he's the strongest pillar of our defence, and hasn't been since the tail end of of last season. Because he's got some great runs on the board, this board glosses over his diabolical kicking and his glacier slow constricted movement, and now frequent puzzling heat of the moment decisions.
My view of Talia is from the perspective of how often does his opponent win the contest or has influenced the game at day's end, and it's not often at all. He is a pillar down back and if we had more 'team men' like him we would be smiling. Yes he has limitations and his disposal is fully defensive. We have pretty much zero attack from our back end. i take your point re glossing over deficiencies but in his primary role he is a champ. Beggars can't be choosers and its up to coaching a game plan around the characteristics of each player and their line roles. Hell we did quite well with say Doughty for years. Coaches knew what they had with him and his disposal was a simple short give off, mostly to advantage, for years. It worked. The state this club is in just begs that Talia is not a concern. He has drawbacks but the guy is one of the true success stories of the Adelaide Football Club.
 

davos44

All Australian
May 24, 2008
937
1,084
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Good:
Effort
Fog's kicking for goal.
ROB is a star, his actual ruck work has been better that last few weeks.
I think some of the cultural issues have been sorted out.
Nicks has been so good for us this year, always positive and if you compare him to Rhys Shaw, he looks like he has a plan going forward.

Richmond will win the flag. Super hard at the ball, elite spread, elite tackling, elite defending and their ball movement is lightning.



Bad:
Our midfield got beaten up by an A grade unit. (hack kicks, bad panic handballs)
Kicking for goal held us out the game in the first half.

Ugly.
The confusion around holding the ball is insane. The rule needs to be simplified, trying to get umpires to judge things with "gut feel" is madness. Ask anyone how they feel about dropping the ball. stupid.
 

CrowBloke

Norm Smith Medallist
May 14, 2017
6,365
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[

I can't tell if you're serious or not. You're good 😂 Wasn't trying to troll. "little rivalry" and "you lot" weren't meant to be demeaning, just how I talk. Sue me for growing a soft spot for the crows due to the GF. I would have done even if you thrashed us. Never thought I'd see Richmond in a grand final so everything, even the opposition club, is special to me. I figure the rivalry isn't there because quite frankly the crows have bigger things to worry about than hyping up a match with some vic club, I know most talk of rivalry was hugely reduced during our ling reign of shitness. rivalry might be here between the supporters but I don't feel we've had any of those heated, frantic rival like matches other clubs seem to. Wasn't trying to big up Richmond, success is always temporary, it's not like we've made it now and will be OK for the next thousand years.

Apologies for sounding like a troll, but I think that's a 50% split of me being bad with words and the AFLworld being perhaps ever so slightly over sensitive to Richmond fans. I'm not saying we don't have trolls, but Y'know... I came here to ask a trade question and give support to a club I think deserves better than this year.
Very reasonable response, thanks. I clearly misinterpreted your intention and while I was being salty (I will never forgive Richmond for 2017), I was trying to be funny as well.
You seem like a decent person, cheers.
 

SugarShane

C6 H12 O6
Sep 9, 2007
16,303
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I see what Richmond do and it's obviously coached into them --- Dimma, take a bow --- so-called "professional" acts all over the ground (blatant illegal holding, in-the-back, flopping, as in the compilation video I posted yesterday). I think the mindset is "If you get away with it, great, that's to our advantage. If you don't, we'll reset quickly".
If you throw and hold 50 times a game and get pinged for 10, you're still 40 ahead.
 

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SugarShane

C6 H12 O6
Sep 9, 2007
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I think goal kicking was an issue again. McAdam and Himmelberg missing set shots they really should've kicked. Walker missing from wide just inside the 50 when he had options on the inside.

I'm not saying Adelaide would've won, however there were times when we had opportunities and blew them
We've been pretty poor all round this year but goal kicking has been a big issue. Would've jagged some wins earlier in the season if we could finish. Playing Richmond it was a glaring difference. When the heat was one they were automatic in front of goal and we were missing from 20m out (worst of all was Lynch).

Every time a Tiger streamed inside 50 they never looked like missing. Just super cool in the heat of the game.
 
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Genghis Tron

ТЕМНЫЙ РЕЖИМ
Apr 6, 2020
2,792
5,671
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Richmond
Very reasonable response, thanks. I clearly misinterpreted your intention and while I was being salty (I will never forgive Richmond for 2017), I was trying to be funny as well.
You seem like a decent person, cheers.
Nah it was definitely funny haha. All understandable though.
 

CrowBloke

Norm Smith Medallist
May 14, 2017
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Really good, thorough post:
Super hard at the ball, elite spread, elite tackling, elite defending and their ball movement is lightning.
I agree with this, albeit reluctantly and maybe with some envy too, since the Crows played a lot like that in 2017 and failed to take it to a higher level, as Richmond have. They took the best of our game in 2017, Hawthorn's in their three-peat, Sydney's relentlessness, then added Harwick's rule-breaking mongrel.
Their two-way running for each other is jaw-droppingly good. It's not just when one of their blokes gets the ball, either. If someone looks like getting the ball they have people running to space to provide the receive --- if not, they backtrack very quickly. If possession is taken/gained, only one or two of several runners are going to get the ball, but they run anyway and don't whinge or remonstrate if they don't get it. They are pro-active and the total opposite of lazy.
There's also the tap-to-advantage which they do consistently, and well. If they can't mark, they spoil. If they are not in a great position they do not take possession but tap or grub it to someone in the clear
AND
there is nearly always someone in the clear because they run so hard to create that. There are standouts like Dusty and Jack, but the other 20 play as well as each other. No weak links, all team players.
Somebody, or several, in their Club sat down, looked at the Comp. and Flag winners and said "OK, what do the best players do? What do the best teams do? That's what we're going to do". Their metamorphosis from mewling kitten in 2010 to the 2020 Tigers has been amazing, and instructional.

They're a treat to watch in full flight, until I remember. Oh wait, it's Richmond :(, ggrrrrr.
 

LittleCrowBoy

All Australian
Mar 4, 2017
741
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you sound very bitter
Nah...it is what it is. Many people complain about things without looking at the bigger picture.
The AFL is an extention of the old VFL.
Complaining about the AFL is like sooking when you loose all your money at the casino....the deck is stacked from the get go and the house advantage means you can win....but you probably won't.
All Crows supporters are hoping we can somehow assemble, develop and implement a winning side and strategy....when player retention, umpiring, drafting, tribunal, fixture and our own bloody board is controlled by the very Victorian powerhouse clubs we are trying to beat.
The AFL is no more independent and fair to the average punter than the boardroom of James Paker.
We all love sport...but this is business....and big business is corrupt.
As for Victoria as a state...anyone who cant see the issues with Victoria superiority complex either dont live here...dont know any better...or cant accept the truth....and the consequences that come with it.
Im more a realist than bitter :)
 
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LittleCrowBoy

All Australian
Mar 4, 2017
741
1,082
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Adelaide
Don't blame sides for dodgy tactics.

Blame the poor umpiring that lets them get away with it.

If the umpires actually umpired to the rules of the game rather than their ever changing 'interpretations' the game would be better all around.

Whoever thought that letting 'interpretations' change week on week without any change to written rules was a way to run a professional sporting competition needs to have a good hard look at themselves.
I think if you wanted to be able to influence the interpretation of the rules to allow for some fairytale narratives (like the doggies winning a flag) ...its a perfect set up.
Would have been tragic if Cotchin was rubbed out for the GF too.....Mackay missing a game during the season....not so important.
I think the Victorians have set it up beautifully....naming it the AFL was a stroke of genius too. I admire what they have done and that so many lap it up.
Accepting the odds are stacked against us is the first step to recovery.
As the years go by I start caring less....which is a good thing.
Best to put your happiness into something you can control...than something you cant.
I still love watching the Crows play though...and Adelaide is a great city :)
 

Pugsley

Hall of Famer
May 19, 2014
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I find it funny that instead of Victorian "powerhouse" clubs humbly accepting they have clear advantages in hosting and controlling every aspect of the "National competition"
They instead have a complete arrogance, sense of entitlement and superiority complex that makes them almost unbearable to those outside the Vic bubble.
I live here in Vic.....and its the same attitude that lead to the secind Virus outbreak.
They might "own" the footy.....and the "most livable city in the world"(in their eyes) ....but the arrogance, selfishness, obnoxiousness etc is fast catching up with them.

Adelaide on the otherhand is a nice city filled with down to earth, friendly people (on the most part)
Im not jealous of what Victorians have...its made them horrible people (on the most part) ....i'll be moving out of this sh*t hole when the borders open back up and bringing my family and life savings back to Adelaide.
My brothers family are doing the same.
Melbourne is a city in decline...if anything we should pity them.
They are run by a corrupt gimp. Who would want to go live there?
 

davos44

All Australian
May 24, 2008
937
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Really good, thorough post:

I agree with this, albeit reluctantly and maybe with some envy too, since the Crows played a lot like that in 2017 and failed to take it to a higher level, as Richmond have. They took the best of our game in 2017, Hawthorn's in their three-peat, Sydney's relentlessness, then added Harwick's rule-breaking mongrel.
Their two-way running for each other is jaw-droppingly good. It's not just when one of their blokes gets the ball, either. If someone looks like getting the ball they have people running to space to provide the receive --- if not, they backtrack very quickly. If possession is taken/gained, only one or two of several runners are going to get the ball, but they run anyway and don't whinge or remonstrate if they don't get it. They are pro-active and the total opposite of lazy.
There's also the tap-to-advantage which they do consistently, and well. If they can't mark, they spoil. If they are not in a great position they do not take possession but tap or grub it to someone in the clear
AND
there is nearly always someone in the clear because they run so hard to create that. There are standouts like Dusty and Jack, but the other 20 play as well as each other. No weak links, all team players.
Somebody, or several, in their Club sat down, looked at the Comp. and Flag winners and said "OK, what do the best players do? What do the best teams do? That's what we're going to do". Their metamorphosis from mewling kitten in 2010 to the 2020 Tigers has been amazing, and instructional.

They're a treat to watch in full flight, until I remember. Oh wait, it's Richmond :(, ggrrrrr.
We will always hurt from that 2017 loss and we will always hate Richmond, makes you think how NM and Saints people feel about us coming in and kicking 14.1 in a half or watching North kick 2.11 in the 2nd quarter.

There is a lot to learn from the very best teams, which isn't all about talent. The key is to lead the pack and to play to your strengths, although it appears being extremely hard and ruthless has been the backbone of many good sides (Hawks 80's, West Coast 90s, Essendon 2000, Brisbane 01-04, Hawthorn 13-15, Richmond now etc.)

Adelaide got done in by the 6-6-6 rule changes and a knee jerk panic reaction from being the best attacking side to a defensively minded side after the Grand final loss (Lever and Cameron leaving didn't help either of course). Bulldogs had similar issues with the 3rd man up rule.
 

jenny61_99

Premium Platinum
Feb 22, 2006
55,291
46,200
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No umpiring could have changed that 48 point belting mate lol

That youtube video with a compilation of all the frees you were "robbed" of is gold. There were just as many that we didnt get.

As for yesterday, you CLEARLY got the rub of the green. Clear ball on the wing not called before halftime was the best of the lot. And the riewoldt tackle that he got done for "holding the man" when the bloke got done ball clear as day haha funny stuff
Bad calls absolutely changed the momentum. But we weren't good enough to claw it back.
 

Footypie32

especias secreto
Sep 5, 2011
21,666
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Our 1st year kids are doing more running than their older and more experienced teammates, diabolical.
Shows how lazy some of our senior players are.
I remember Walsh saying running for the sake of running was just a waste of energy and he did a great deal on teaching our guys to run to the right spots.

The kids are probably doing a lot of inefficient running. Which isn't too bad as it still shows they are fit at least.
 

Mileratkinsshow

Senior List
Feb 14, 2016
225
237
AFL Club
Adelaide
Thought you guys played really well and attacked the contest hard. O'Brien's marking was very good.

As for the umpiring, cmon lads it was 17-8 your way, hardly did us any favours.
How does Richmond not get called for all the blatant push in the backs that happened ALL DAY. At least 5 automatic no brainer infringements I can recall without even thinking too hard. - including to Jones, Sholl, Lynch, Schoenberg and Laird. Appalling misses by the umpires. It should have been at least 22 - 8 free kicks because you guys cross the line!


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