Review Good/Bad vs St Kilda - Rd 13

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rocket18

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You can't block someone from a marking contest. You can, however, shepherd the ball if it's within 5m.

Which means that if Fogarty was blocking his opponent, his actions were illegal until the ball hit the ground - at which point they became legal.
It wasn't a marking contest, the umpire was calling play on as the ball was in flight - as the umps often do if the ball wont be reaching 15m.

Just checked the vision from the goalpost camera angle the ump is waving his arms playon as the ball in the air approaching the goal line.
 

rocket18

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Absolutely :thumbsu::thumbsu: (and the Umpire explained it).
The free was there; it was no 'gimme' or 'soft' free.
Most of this "trouble" was caused by the umpires poor explanation. He said something stupid like "you stopped him from marking the ball"

Which is what all backman try and do, he should have added illegally or just say you took him high whilst the marking contest was still going.

That gets paid a free 98 times out of a 100 when a backman throws an arm over the forwards shoulder like that, people getting confused just because it was the "second" part of the marking contest - it wasn't a loose ball.

Marking "rules" still applied.
 

conVINCEd

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We get softer free kicks called against us multiple times every single week. Much, much softer than that. There was actually contact over the shoulder for a start. We get phantom decisions called against us regularly.

You can’t pick and choose to criticise that one.
I'll happily take it, I just thought it was a very marginal free that would never be paid in a final.
 

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Geoffa32

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Watching the replay now.

From the MacKay hit onwards we controlled this game. Didn't notice live as I lost interest till 10 minutes to go.
But we dominated the play for two and a half quarters.



Anyone else think Worrell looks a bit like Josh Jenkins in a Greg Anderson wig?

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Mego Red

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Bullshit.
Which part?

Clearly what I said is accurate. You just listed a series of players, like any of them would have done much.

Marshall? Good. Gresham and Hannebury? Never play. Zac Jones? Fine, but they have enough contested ball mids with mediocre footskills.

The rest don't mean anything.

Crouch, Milera, Lynch and Talia all mean more.

St Kilda lost because they're weak and we were better, not because of injury.
 

Mutineer

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Which part?

Clearly what I said is accurate. You just listed a series of players, like any of them would have done much.

Marshall? Good. Gresham and Hannebury? Never play. Zac Jones? Fine, but they have enough contested ball mids with mediocre footskills.

The rest don't mean anything.

Crouch, Milera, Lynch and Talia all mean more.

St Kilda lost because they're weak and we were better, not because of injury.
LOL
I didn't spot Tim Membrey or Seb Ross in your list of outs.

Tim Membrey is a very iimportant forward for them, currently their leading goal kicker and best 22 every day and twice on Sundays.

Seb Ross is a starting midfielder and best 22 every day and twice on Sundays

Jake Carlisle when fit is a 200cm starting key defender and best 22

Ben Paton was best 22 last year until injured
 

jenny61_99

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Well, I’m finally back home in freezing bloody Brisbane (after leaving a hot and humid 29 degrees).

That first quarter…ugh. We started to pick up pace in the second quarter so didn’t feel like we needed to get an early Uber. Second half we ran over the top of them. And you could tell we were building… the self belief in these lads is palpable!

as ugly win as it was, it was great to see a win…in the final minute of the game! I figured they’d won for my birthday. 😜
 

skam85

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Of that list, Marshall is good and Jones is okay but burns it. Gresham and Hannebury barely play and the rest are spuds.

FFS, we had more decent players out than them.
Of our best and most influential first choice players we were missing Talia, Brown, Milera and Crouch - at a stretch Lynch.

St Kilda were missing Membrey, Ross, Gresham, Marshall, Carlisle, Jones, Geary - all were important players in their finals run last season.

Carlisle = Talia
Ross = Crouch
Lynch is cooked to everyone outside the rose tinters so let's say Lynch = Geary.

So that leaves their best HB (Jones), their best ruck (Marshall) and their best forward (Membrey). That's not even counting Ben Paton who was best 22 all season in 2020.

And that's not even counting Gresham - he is a dead set gun and before his unfortunate injury has missed 8 games in the past four seasons.
"FFS" a simple google search can tell you that.
Compare him to Milera if you like but the "barely play" factor doesn't paint that in a good light.

We did not have more decent players missing by any stretch and it's a real bargain basement level of analysis to suggest otherwise.
 

Lady Godava

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Well, I’m finally back home in freezing bloody Brisbane (after leaving a hot and humid 29 degrees).

That first quarter…ugh. We started to pick up pace in the second quarter so didn’t feel like we needed to get an early Uber. Second half we ran over the top of them. And you could tell we were building… the self belief in these lads is palpable!

as ugly win as it was, it was great to see a win…in the final minute of the game! I figured they’d won for my birthday. 😜
The one thing I thought at half time is that we will run the game out. Our fitness showed in the last with players running in waves and some great run back into defence.
 

jackster83

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Well, I’m finally back home in freezing bloody Brisbane (after leaving a hot and humid 29 degrees).

That first quarter…ugh. We started to pick up pace in the second quarter so didn’t feel like we needed to get an early Uber. Second half we ran over the top of them. And you could tell we were building… the self belief in these lads is palpable!

as ugly win as it was, it was great to see a win…in the final minute of the game! I figured they’d won for my birthday. 😜
Do you know what the go was with all those people in the crowd wearing construction hardhats? Was it to protect them from Jack Lonie's errant kicking?
 

DJ75

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Yep agree.

Guilty it has to be 3 plus. And sets a precedent that even if you hit a player in a Footy contest you are responsible for their wellbeing. Brings any contact injury into this scenario.

Not Guilty. Sanity prevails.


A Guilty verdict really should be a game changer if they apply the same standard to every contact injury.


Two guys going the ball, wasn't even a bump, one comes off second best






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Which we know they won't. It will be another grey area that will apply or not apply depending on the status of the offending player and/or what game it occurs in.
 

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ABAB

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Of our best and most influential first choice players we were missing Talia, Brown, Milera and Crouch - at a stretch Lynch.

St Kilda were missing Membrey, Ross, Gresham, Marshall, Carlisle, Jones, Geary - all were important players in their finals run last season.

Carlisle = Talia
Ross = Crouch
Lynch is cooked to everyone outside the rose tinters so let's say Lynch = Geary.

So that leaves their best HB (Jones), their best ruck (Marshall) and their best forward (Membrey). That's not even counting Ben Paton who was best 22 all season in 2020.

And that's not even counting Gresham - he is a dead set gun and before his unfortunate injury has missed 8 games in the past four seasons.
"FFS" a simple google search can tell you that.
Compare him to Milera if you like but the "barely play" factor doesn't paint that in a good light.

We did not have more decent players missing by any stretch and it's a real bargain basement level of analysis to suggest otherwise.
Based on importance Talia=Marshall, M.Crouch>Ross, Jones>Milera, Membrey>Murphy, Brown=Carlisle so they were logically only missing Gresham and Patton (who is borderline in the best 22), like the commentator said before the bounce much has been said about the Saints out but not the Crows' out.
 

Vhaluus

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The one thing I thought at half time is that we will run the game out. Our fitness showed in the last with players running in waves and some great run back into defence.
It'd have been pretty shocking if we didn't run the game out.

For the vast majority of the first half St Kilda was running a lot harder.

You saw it at nearly every contest because we were nearly always outnumbered. But being there live I can tell you St Kilda were running harder even off the ball too.

That trend very much reversed in the second half.
 

ABAB

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Yikes.

The thing with Talia, Milera and Crouch being out is we've had 13 games without them now. We've had plenty of time to bed a new structure and adapt, and by this point whilst we're a weaker side, most of the damage done has been mitigated. It's just about irrelevant.

Someone like Ross and Membrey is much more catastrophic because its unexpected. Especially Membrey who is their leading goal kicker.

Also on your other post - Brown == Carlisle? What world is a back pocket equal to a key position player structurally?
I said in terms of importance with the missing players, hence used Talia=Mashall. We are still struggling in the midfield and given M.Crouch form late last year he would have been very important, Talia would have been a very important KPD which we are still struggling so we haven't "bed a new structure and adapt".
 
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ABAB

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Injuries are unfortunate. You don't get pity points if you choose to rest a player though.

Saints had a lot of injuries/missing players and I doubt we make that comeback if that weren't the case. I don't know why anybody would argue against this.
I doubt we would had such a poor start if we didn't also have a lot of injured/missing players.
 

Dangarman

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We were 5 goals better than tigers in 17. We beat them by 60 points 3 months before the GF.

The only way to win a Grannie as an interstate side, is to play another interstate side. Ala port v lions, Sydney v west coast. That is the only way interstate teams win grannies.

Unless you get incredibly lucky and have 3 kick and marks in a row and kick a goal on the boundary on the siren the way eagles best pies 18.
Not true. Did you forget we beat both North and StK in consecutive years? Of the last 30 GF:

'18 - WC d CWD (as you said)
'12 - Syd d Haw
'01 - '03 Bris beat CWD twice and Essendon
'97 and '98 Ad beat StK and North
'92 and '94 - WC beat Geelong

9 out of 30 is a pretty good strike rate.

Of the other 21
All interstate - 3 ('04, 05 and '06 - those 3 consecutive years were the only 3 times it has happened I think)
All Vic - 9
Vic beat interstate team - 119 (Whoops, I meant 9. Where did those extra two 1's come from???)

So from that sample space, we have 50/50 results from Vic vs interstate GFs.
 

Mego Red

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LOL
I didn't spot Tim Membrey or Seb Ross in your list of outs.

Tim Membrey is a very iimportant forward for them, currently their leading goal kicker and best 22 every day and twice on Sundays.

Seb Ross is a starting midfielder and best 22 every day and twice on Sundays

Jake Carlisle when fit is a 200cm starting key defender and best 22

Ben Paton was best 22 last year until injured
Tim Membrey is a good solid battler.

Ross hasn't been good for two years. Carlisle is completely cooked and is lucky to still be on a list. Paton hasn't played this year and has played maybe 30 games in his career.

They're just battlers. Very replaceable players.
 

Mego Red

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Of our best and most influential first choice players we were missing Talia, Brown, Milera and Crouch - at a stretch Lynch.

St Kilda were missing Membrey, Ross, Gresham, Marshall, Carlisle, Jones, Geary - all were important players in their finals run last season.

Carlisle = Talia
Ross = Crouch
Lynch is cooked to everyone outside the rose tinters so let's say Lynch = Geary.

So that leaves their best HB (Jones), their best ruck (Marshall) and their best forward (Membrey). That's not even counting Ben Paton who was best 22 all season in 2020.

And that's not even counting Gresham - he is a dead set gun and before his unfortunate injury has missed 8 games in the past four seasons.
"FFS" a simple google search can tell you that.
Compare him to Milera if you like but the "barely play" factor doesn't paint that in a good light.

We did not have more decent players missing by any stretch and it's a real bargain basement level of analysis to suggest otherwise.
Talia is years younger and MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better than Carlisle.

Crouch is a MILE better than Ross. Ross is almost done and hasn't been good in years.

Lynch was the best in the league in his role THIS YEAR before his injury.

Jones is just more of what they have - solid contested player who burns the ball. Gresham barely played this year or last year, and Membrey is just a middling player, who has been involved in a lot of losing.

There's some massive "grass is greener" overestimating of St Kilda in your post. Very similar to their list management last offseason ...

Marshall is very good, agreed.
 

Mego Red

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Based on importance Talia=Marshall, M.Crouch>Ross, Jones>Milera, Membrey>Murphy, Brown=Carlisle so they were logically only missing Gresham and Patton (who is borderline in the best 22), like the commentator said before the bounce much has been said about the Saints out but not the Crows' out.
Milera is more important than Jones.

Jones is one of the most replaceable players in St Kilda's line-up. They always have bucket loads of grunt players.

Marshall probably slightly more important than Talia and you're correct about Murphy. Brown is FAR more important than Carlisle.
 

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