Review Good/Bad vs West Coast rd 9 2021

[AmericanCrow]

more touches than Tex's last 2 weeks and he's only a 30 gamer. Plus he's getting the ball in contested situations where Tex just allows defenders to waltz away. You're not being very complimentary to Tex having a crack at Fogs' numbers.

Taylor Walker at the end of a long career is the comparison.

Yikes

Also Tex puts points on the board. Fog is gassed after a decent quarter.

Doesn’t bode well

 

[MrBarry]

Speaks volumes of the last few years if he is still deemed as high ceiling guy amongst all the draft choices.

Also reinforces how dumb tanking is

Sorry mate, but your wide of the mark there. The kid has bags of ability, he was touted as a top 5 draft pick at the time but had an injury leading into the draft.

Tanking serves it's purpose, most treams who have won flags in recent years have topped up down the bottom and we need to do the same.

 

[1970crow]

Taylor Walker at the end of a long career is the comparison.

Yikes

Also Tex puts points on the board. Fog is gassed after a decent quarter.

Doesn’t bode well

It doesn't bode well for Tex if he's 250 games in and is being performed by a guy you reckon is unfit and has no future. You shouldn't be so hard on Tex, he's at the end of a long career, but I agree, probably should have played his last game.

 

[1970crow]

Sorry mate, but your wide of the mark there. The kid has bags of ability, he was touted as a top 5 draft pick at the time but had an injury leading into the draft.

Tanking serves it's purpose, most treams who have won flags in recent years have topped up down the bottom and we need to do the same.

the tanking thing is overstated. Very few clubs have deliberately lost multiple games in order to get a couple of spots up the draft order.

 

[MrBarry]

the tanking thing is overstated. Very few clubs have deliberately lost multiple games in order to get a couple of spots up the draft order.

We don't need to 'tank' but to think we don't need to draft elite talent in is ignorant / naive.

 

[Stepover]

It doesn't bode well for Tex if he's 250 games in and is being performed by a guy you reckon is unfit and has no future. You shouldn't be so hard on Tex, he's at the end of a long career, but I agree, probably should have played his last game.

You talking about the same Tex who is currently 2nd in the Coleman?
Give it a rest.


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[Rory Walkerfield]

Just speculation but the fitness coach getting the boot might have something to do with it.

That makes no sense when our last quarters are our best.

 

[AmericanCrow]

Sorry mate, but your wide of the mark there. The kid has bags of ability, he was touted as a top 5 draft pick at the time but had an injury leading into the draft.

Tanking serves it's purpose, most treams who have won flags in recent years have topped up down the bottom and we need to do the same.

Yes we will disagree. Fog has not shown he has any sort of “high ceiling”. His fitness issues remain exactly as they were when he was drafted.

As for tanking, easiest way to ensure a lot of losing over a very long stretch of time.

No thanks

 

[AmericanCrow]

It doesn't bode well for Tex if he's 250 games in and is being performed by a guy you reckon is unfit and has no future. You shouldn't be so hard on Tex, he's at the end of a long career, but I agree, probably should have played his last game.

Not quite sure how you managed to twist that into a compliment for Fog and a slam on the Texan but there you have it.

Pretty certain I will take Taylor Walker every single time over Fog, 250 games in or not.

Every Single Time

 

[CrowBloke]

A big call coming here but, had Talia been playing (the talia we are used to,not necessarily one just coming back from a long lay off due to injury), we might very well have pinched that game as he would have been every chance 1 v 1 to have prevented each of those Darling contested marks against the smaller bodied guy. It would have brought things back a bit and we got a bit unlucky with the shots hitting the post. We were not that far off it performance wise..just a little undermanned in a key position on the day

No doubt Talia would have helped --- a fit Talia.
As for pinching the game, I doubt it.
My impression was that the WCE played well within themselves and did only what they needed, to win well without getting any major injuries. They withstood the Crows' energetic first quarter; my guess is they knew that Fog would eventually run out of puff (which he did, way too soon, again). Every time the Crows got close or threatened, their mids lifted and they pulled away. They pretty much sat on their 30-odd point lead from half-time. When the Crows threatened (eg got within 7 points) they lifted and pulled away again and fairly easily, at that.
In the second half, they set up a well-spaced wall of players a kick behind the play waiting for the inevitable, panicked hack-kick out of the Crows D50, many of which lobbed onto WCE chests. Crows mids' poor defensive running helped them. Nicks was out-Coached and failed to put a spare man back to crowd Darling in that second quarter (would have been unnecessary had he selected an extra tall KPD, btw).
I might be wrong but, like I said, that was only my impression.
Upper echelon tennis players play similarly against weaker opponents ie play within themselves, but lift anytime their opponent threatens to run away with the match. It's a kind of 'tempo' play and it conserves energy for matches when they have to play flat-out to beat stronger opponents.

 

[CrowBloke]

His fitness issues remain exactly as they were when he was drafted.

This.
His inability to play any more than a useful 1.5 quarters or so is immensely frustrating.
Maybe if they get Burgess, he will straighten out the Fog. A few others, too, especially the mids' fitness to improve their defensive running.
I'm still waiting for one of the Coaches to step up and work on Keays' right-foot kicking, too.

 

[CrowBloke]

... and his output increases.

??
With respect, when did his output increase?
He played a bit over a quarter of really good footy, ending up with 12 possessions (that's his equal-best return), no tackles and a goal. Invisible in the second/third quarters.
We're all still waiting for his output to increase which will only come when he works much, much harder on his fitness.

To clarify, I really want Fogarty to succeed and be more than a 1.5-quarter wonder.

 

[CrowBloke]

It increased? Half his disposals came in the first quarter, when he was playing in the midfield. His output after going forward was ~6 disposals in 3 quarters - exactly on par with his 8 disposal/game average (playing as a forward).

*snap*
(I'm behind a few pages)

 

[CrowBloke]

Fogarty has potential, but is inconsistent, is a perfectly defensible position, and one that leads to the natural conclusion that we must make efforts to develop that potential.

This, couldn't agree more.
I think the motivation, though, has to come from within Fogarty --- if it's external ie from the Coaches, his fitness won't change.

 

[CrowBloke]

Those two shots on goal were absolute “gimmies” for him..

Yes, and for any six-figure-salaried AFL KPF.
Those two misses were a key factor in my disappointment with his game. Momentum-killers. Had he potted those two goals the Crows would've been 6.4 (not 4.6) and energised by them. A team lifts when their forwards capitalise on their efforts by kicking those gettable goals. Frampton had a simple miss as well, but I'm less disappointed/surprised by that --- that was par, for him (useless).
Instead, the WCE rebounded and as Darling went on his rampage, the Crows (and Fogarty) fell away.

 

[UcantCme]

It amuses me that people are putting it on Fog that he only played 2 good qtrs of footy against WCE

Can anyone tell me which one of our forwards played 4 qtrs of footy?

It's been the pattern of our entire forward line for 2-3 seasons now, not just Fog

Fog's consistency will improve with more experience and hopefully the coaches settling him into a role....

However our forwards to be consistent also need consistently of supply, this is on the midfield

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[FR0GGY]

??
With respect, when did his output increase?
He played a bit over a quarter of really good footy, ending up with 12 possessions (that's his equal-best return), no tackles and a goal. Invisible in the second/third quarters.
We're all still waiting for his output to increase which will only come when he works much, much harder on his fitness.

To clarify, I really want Fogarty to succeed and be more than a 1.5-quarter wonder.

It was his highest possession tally, he did that whilst playing mainly forward, should have also had 3 goals.
Also spent time off the ground getting treatment.
It’s like people wanted him to dominate the game playing in his best suited position for the first time in a long time and do it on the best backman in the game.
Unbelievable

 

[Crow till I die]

It amuses me that people are putting it on Fog that he only played 2 good qtrs of footy against WCE

Can anyone tell me which one of our forwards played 4 qtrs of footy?

It's been the pattern of our entire forward line for 2-3 seasons now, not just Fog

Fog's consistency will improve with more experience and hopefully the coaches settling him into a role....

However our forwards to be consistent also need consistently of supply, this is on the midfield

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Somehow if naitanui and kelly had been on our side, the first use of the ball and clean breaks from centre wheeling inside forward 50 might have given our forwards the right service to thrive. As it was our workmanlike midfield when they did get it going generally dump kicked it forward from centre under pressure.

As we improve in the midfield via natural progression from the younger players and hopefully via the draft, this might work itself out in the seasons to come and tgen fog and thilthorpe will be the ones benefiting from clean quality service into the forward line

 

[moogerfooger]

I'm not so sure it's all on Fogarty to "boost his fitness" when for his entire career the club has prepared him to be a KPF with all the bulk that goes with that. I'd be interested to see how he goes in a midfield role after he's slimmed down and worked more on endurance than burst speed. If that first quarter is any guide, we need to give him every opportunity to show more of it.

 

[Golumless]

Speaks volumes of the last few years if he is still deemed as high ceiling guy amongst all the draft choices.

Also reinforces how dumb tanking is

Not really, he's well deserving of that classification. He hasn't had injuries to slow him down, and you can see moments where Fog could be a genuinely dominant player.

Not everyone with a high ceiling makes it, and it's safe to say Fogs floor isn't an AFL player.

 

[Kezza86]

I'm not so sure it's all on Fogarty to "boost his fitness" when for his entire career the club has prepared him to be a KPF with all the bulk that goes with that. I'd be interested to see how he goes in a midfield role after he's slimmed down and worked more on endurance than burst speed. If that first quarter is any guide, we need to give him every opportunity to show more of it.

Last year was his first year using the cross fit method of training. Another preseason with this method he’ll become lighter and his endurance will improve.

 

[Golumless]

Yes we will disagree. Fog has not shown he has any sort of “high ceiling”. His fitness issues remain exactly as they were when he was drafted.

As for tanking, easiest way to ensure a lot of losing over a very long stretch of time.

No thanks

Fog is clearly fit, something that was both shown throughout preseason and even mentioned in the broadcast by Brereton. We wouldn't be using him as a midfielder if we didn't think so.

Blaming fitness has really become a crux for anyone looking to magically hand wave away what Fogarty is as a player at the moment. In that he's just wildly inconsistent player who has a couple of glaring flaws that are holding him back (doesn't accumulate easy ball, isn't a crash hot contested mark, is slow). That said what he does, he does very well. It's kind of been the same case for the last 2-3 years. Get him to 50-70 games and pray to whatever deity you feel like that he works it out.

The good thing is, for a quarter at least, we saw the tool that gives Fog the pathway to make it. Then he uncharacteristically missed a few shots, West Coast efficiently landed a KO blow and that was that.

 

[CrowBloke]

It was his highest possession tally, he did that whilst playing mainly forward, should have also had 3 goals.
Also spent time off the ground getting treatment.
It’s like people wanted him to dominate the game playing in his best suited position for the first time in a long time and do it on the best backman in the game.
Unbelievable

I understand.
My expectations were not that high.
On the other side of the coin, people are gushing about his game and saying how well he did without Tex 'getting in his way'.
Both sets of hyperbole are as bad as the other.

 

[FR0GGY]

I understand.
My expectations were not that high.
On the other side of the coin, people are gushing about his game and saying how well he did without Tex 'getting in his way'.
Both sets of hyperbole are as bad as the other.

I’m not sure many as saying that, more lets give him some time in that situation and then judge him.
Maybe some are saying his first qtr was great, which it was but not the whole game.

 

[AmericanCrow]

Fog is clearly fit, something that was both shown throughout preseason and even mentioned in the broadcast by Brereton. We wouldn't be using him as a midfielder if we didn't think so.

Blaming fitness has really become a crux for anyone looking to magically hand wave away what Fogarty is as a player at the moment. In that he's just wildly inconsistent player who has a couple of glaring flaws that are holding him back (doesn't accumulate easy ball, isn't a crash hot contested mark, is slow). That said what he does, he does very well. It's kind of been the same case for the last 2-3 years. Get him to 50-70 games and pray to whatever deity you feel like that he works it out.

The good thing is, for a quarter at least, we saw the tool that gives Fog the pathway to make it. Then he uncharacteristically missed a few shots, West Coast efficiently landed a KO blow and that was that.

Watching a different guy than me. His fitness remains suspect. Fact he disappears for large stretches of games should speak volumes.

I don’t wish him ill will, as obviously if he turns it around and produces full games at an above average level it only helps us get where we want.

I don’t see him doing that