Review Good/Bad vs West Coast - Rd 18

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FullyBigKPro

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Embarrassing really after a 9 day break against a very out of form West Coast, at home...

We have no class players, too many blue collar chumps and no discernible game plan.

We will not win another game this year, mark it down. Getting Horne is the only thing we can achieve this year now.
 

Betts are off

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I thought Kelly was ok for most the game, but the 2 minute mark of the first quarter I saw probably the most typical Jake Kelly passage I've ever seen.

Kelly takes a mark 35m from goal.
Murphy has 20m on his nearest opponent on the wing and is an easy 45m kick away.
Kelly see's the option and ignores it, searching for a sideways kick option instead.
The closest player to Murphy then actually moves further away from Murphy choosing to close down the short option instead and leaving Murphy with even more space, Murphy waves his arms again.
Kelly sees the option, ignores it a second time, needs to make sure the backwards or sideways options are still not available.
In this time ROB, NicNat and another WC player all move over to the wing that Murphy has been on.
The umpire calls play on, and Kelly kicks the ball high and long to a now manned up Murphy!

The man is and will forever be ball movement quicksand. Opposition players are now so confident he we will not take the aggressive kick, that they leave players wide open on the wing to close down the 20m chip pass!
 

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CrowBloke

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1) Lynch - Too good not to be on an AFL list, and was largely fantastic yesterday. But not for us I'm afraid.
2) Himmelberg - I've rarely seen a guy with his lack of urgency. Better than Billy but not by much.
Really good summary :thumbsu:.
1) Lynch "fantastic" yesterday? Mediocre, at best.
2) Same sh1te, different bucket, only not as full.
 

Jarman3

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I've been extremely critical of McPherson this year but thought he was OK tonight, showed some attacking poise hitting up Fogarty with nice kicks twice. Is there a chance we've been using him a role he's less suited to this year?

I've been thinking the same thing. During his first couple of years when he couldn't get out on the park, the one thing I kept hearing about McPherson was that he was supposedly an elite ball user. Saw a few nice things from him last year, but this year he's just been ordinary, to put it politely. But yesterday I saw a number of really nice kicks from him. Not sure if he was playing a different role - more likely he was just playing the same role better. I doubt "mediocre kick" has ever been anybody's actual team role even when that's what they're serving up. But in a side full of turnover merchants, somebody who can cleanly deliver it to a leading forward on multiple occasions does tend to stand out.
 
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Didn't get to see the game, unfortunately. When I saw the team selection I pretty much knew the result (short people up fwd one week to a bunch of dinosaurs the next). Worst aspect for me is the SANFL team only managed 26 inside 50's compared to 68 (with Crouch in there), so I'm struggling to see where our midfield improvement is going to come from. I know some people have suggested Doedee and others to be tried, but they need to be clean, one-grab players at ground level - and I don't see many of those on our list. Pedlar and Berry look to be the reasonable in this regard, so I'd definitely be using them for the rest of the season with Schoey (who's the best of a poor bunch). The other thing the good midfielders have is composure, and again Schoey's the only one who seems to have 'time' to deliver. I'd even try Hamill as an outside mid, along with Jones to mix it up a bit.
 
May 24, 2006
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Lynch was great, people just don't want him in the team.

I get it though.
He wasn't great

He was good from an attacking sense but a liability defensively, jogging behind as the Eagles routinely swept the ball with ease from half back

Our four medium/tall forwards are needed to do the work of three players.

Without Himmelberg we don't have a player to kick long to and bring it to ground. Without Lynch we don't have someone who works up the ground and creates. Without Fogarty we don't have enough class finishing. Without Tex we don't have proper direction or structure.

Take any out and the group struggles offensively.

However with them all in we become impotent at ground level and non-existent defensively.

It's why Thilthorpe is so important long term as he does multiple things at once.
 

chrisso crow

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Good: Not much, a handful of players were and our defence was good in the first half until the WCE mids started to dominate.
I thought ROB was much better around the ground today. Nic Nat gave him a touch up in the middle, but he does that to a lot of ruckmen.

Bad: Still more tough games to come. I'm hoping we are saving our last big performance for the Showdown, not overly optimistic though.

Ugly: how many times did we handball behind the player running past? That was amateurish at best.
 

BrissyCrow

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I thought Kelly was ok for most the game, but the 2 minute mark of the first quarter I saw probably the most typical Jake Kelly passage I've ever seen.

Kelly takes a mark 35m from goal.
Murphy has 20m on his nearest opponent on the wing and is an easy 45m kick away.
Kelly see's the option and ignores it, searching for a sideways kick option instead.
The closest player to Murphy then actually moves further away from Murphy choosing to close down the short option instead and leaving Murphy with even more space, Murphy waves his arms again.
Kelly sees the option, ignores it a second time, needs to make sure the backwards or sideways options are still not available.
In this time ROB, NicNat and another WC player all move over to the wing that Murphy has been on.
The umpire calls play on, and Kelly kicks the ball high and long to a now manned up Murphy!

The man is and will forever be ball movement quicksand. Opposition players are now so confident he we will not take the aggressive kick, that they leave players wide open on the wing to close down the 20m chip pass!

I liked your summation of Kelly. I tried to make a point earlier about how indecisive Kelly looks after taking a good mark. He seems to wait too long to move the ball on and by the time he finally kicks forward its to a contested mark or a pack mark. He does this often during the game.
 
Aug 17, 2009
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I'm confident you are under-rating McHenry
. Why do you think that apart from all that mad running around what makes you think he can become a good AFL footballer as the only thing I see is now and again good ha
He wasn't great

He was good from an attacking sense but a liability defensively, jogging behind as the Eagles routinely swept the ball with ease from half back

Our four medium/tall forwards are needed to do the work of three players.

Without Himmelberg we don't have a player to kick long to and bring it to ground. Without Lynch we don't have someone who works up the ground and creates. Without Fogarty we don't have enough class finishing. Without Tex we don't have proper direction or structure.

Take any out and the group struggles offensively.

However with them all in we become impotent at ground level and non-existent defensively.

It's why Thilthorpe is so important long term as he does multiple things at once.
Good summary of our situation up forward and I believe highlights that although our forward bigs get rubbished on here strongly our forward smalls offer absolutely nothing in any aspect . Cant take a forward entry as too small to offer or compete, cant crumb , cant kick goals and defensively offer nothing in stopping intercept marks or stopping run out of defence.
As many posters have said we must get Sloane down as permanent forward and surely Rowe cant get another game this week and McHenry is offering nothing except running around like mad bull .
McHenry at 16 and Rowe at 38 just more examples of poor selections for modern game.
 
. Why do you think that apart from all that mad running around what makes you think he can become a good AFL footballer as the only thing I see is now and again good ha

Good summary of our situation up forward and I believe highlights that although our forward bigs get rubbished on here strongly our forward smalls offer absolutely nothing in any aspect . Cant take a forward entry as too small to offer or compete, cant crumb , cant kick goals and defensively offer nothing in stopping intercept marks or stopping run out of defence.
As many posters have said we must get Sloane down as permanent forward and surely Rowe cant get another game this week and McHenry is offering nothing except running around like mad bull .
McHenry at 16 and Rowe at 38 just more examples of poor selections for modern game.
McHenry is generally a good user of the ball.

Pleasing under pressure, his quick handballs normally are spot on.

Building nicely.
 

Rags_118

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McHenry is generally a good user of the ball.

Pleasing under pressure, his quick handballs normally are spot on.

Building nicely.

if McHenry has an AFL future then I cannot see it being as a small forward.

He looks like a middling SANFL/VFL midfielder to me. I accept that he uses the ball well on the rare occasions that he gets it in space, but he is only ever going to be a linking playing in a chain of possessions.

A penniless homeless man’s Caleb Daniel perhaps?
 

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marvin

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We might be the easiest club to sidestep around when we’re attempting to tackle. Seems embedded in the group, Lynch and Mackay the worst for it, we just give up. Atkins left a legacy?

Seedsman was so enamoured about his sidestep success in training that he decided to try to do it 18 times in one possession. Things went great for the first 2.
 

BunjiMac

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There were so many occasions in yet game where the ball was marked about 80m out and there were always reasonable options leading in the 50. I'm not saying these were easy and it would have required some skill to execute, but definitely viable options.

The kicker 99 percent of the time assessed the option and then bombed long to the very low percentage option.

You then watch west coast absolute opposite going the other direction at speed.

Our players don't have the skill or confidence to hit these passes. They wait for a player to be the absolute clear before attempting such a pass. These things can't be easily taught in my opinion as players to into autopilot under such situations. This takes players with great self belief, skills and class.

This has been said 1000 times but we keep seeing it week in and week out.

This must change.
 
Aug 21, 2008
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Only just getting to the replay. Does kayo struggle when trying to move forward and back in the replay? Dog of an app.

Anyway. Just watched the first half. Reading yesterday it sounded like the sky was falling. CB and stoppages we were well beaten but apart from that some nice movement and individual performances, particularly from Jones, Schoenberg, McPherson, Hamil, Fogarty, Seed, Butts and Murray.

Might stop watching now :)
 
Aug 17, 2007
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I thought Kelly was ok for most the game, but the 2 minute mark of the first quarter I saw probably the most typical Jake Kelly passage I've ever seen.

Kelly takes a mark 35m from goal.
Murphy has 20m on his nearest opponent on the wing and is an easy 45m kick away.
Kelly see's the option and ignores it, searching for a sideways kick option instead.
The closest player to Murphy then actually moves further away from Murphy choosing to close down the short option instead and leaving Murphy with even more space, Murphy waves his arms again.
Kelly sees the option, ignores it a second time, needs to make sure the backwards or sideways options are still not available.
In this time ROB, NicNat and another WC player all move over to the wing that Murphy has been on.
The umpire calls play on, and Kelly kicks the ball high and long to a now manned up Murphy!

The man is and will forever be ball movement quicksand. Opposition players are now so confident he we will not take the aggressive kick, that they leave players wide open on the wing to close down the 20m chip pass!
Yeah that play made me laugh.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 
May 29, 2011
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Only just getting to the replay. Does kayo struggle when trying to move forward and back in the replay? Dog of an app.

Anyway. Just watched the first half. Reading yesterday it sounded like the sky was falling. CB and stoppages we were well beaten but apart from that some nice movement and individual performances, particularly from Jones, Schoenberg, McPherson, Hamil, Fogarty, Seed, Butts and Murray.

Might stop watching now :)
First half was pretty reasonable. There is no reason to watch to second unless you're a masochist.
 

WeedsMullet84

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I liked your summation of Kelly. I tried to make a point earlier about how indecisive Kelly looks after taking a good mark. He seems to wait too long to move the ball on and by the time he finally kicks forward its to a contested mark or a pack mark. He does this often during the game.

Has been made to look like an reasonably good defender this year, in a completely underwhelming side.

I would trade him in a heartbeat if Francis or Dawson become available, keeping in mind we also have Hinge competing for that position.

He's unbearably slow in his decision making, and in fairly slow in general. Compare other defenders of his height and they give so much more in terms of their run from the backline and providing an option.
 
Aug 21, 2008
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First half was pretty reasonable. There is no reason to watch to second unless you're a masochist.
I'm watching it :)

It's not as emotionally charged when you're watching a replay. A few players weren't as bad as it sounded reading it yesterday. Hamill is one I've liked and Himmelberg wasn't terrible considering our forward entries. Even thought Sloane wasn't as bad as I was expecting. Laird being ineffectual is correct and Rowe had a stinker.

WC dominated clearance work and clearly had much more class and experience through the middle and up forward. Keays and Schoenberg our only decent mids on the night.

Anyway, finished now.

Positive signs :

Schoenberg best on. Needs to spend Max time in the midfield now as most have said.

McPherson back to the form of last year. Really underrated game imo.

Hamill mostly good. Still too light and does miss the odd kick, but he's got dash and confidence, which is a point of difference.

Jones great first half. Looking 100 times better than last year and early this year. If he keeps up this trajectory that would be huge for us. Think he's going to cement a spot by years end, which I wouldn't have imagined earlier in the year.

Butts and Murray strong in the air down back.

Our youngsters showed some very good signs yesterday, which is important.

Keays a strong game and finished in front of goal.

Lynch and seed our best experienced players.

I don't like him but Kelly had a good game.

Talls had an almost game. Tex some uncharacteristic dumb moments. Fog great first half but couldn't get near it in the 2nd. Himm concrete hands but still managed two contested i50 marks and a few good contests around the ground. He at least has a football brain unlike Frampton. Terrible delivery in the second half didn't help these guys.

Bad:

Murphy just isn't what we need going forward. First game back but geez he doesn't have much footy iq. Been that way since day 1.

Rowe had a shocker and McHenry was quiet. There's our 3 small forwards providing nothing. Serious need for us. McHenry has shown enough to have a future, but Murphy should be phased out and still lots of ?? around Rowe given he can't pressure. Not going to win many of our forward entries suck and we have zero small forwards to lock the ball in.

Laird ineffective. He's been great this year but not yesterday.

Thought about was average. No damage on his kicks.

Mackay typical Mackay game. Looks okay on the run 3 times a game but a non entity otherwise.

Murdered around stoppages and CBs. Nic Nat too easy. Rob decent around the ground at least.

Other note:

Berry quiet although still has some nice touch when he gets it. Would like to see him with more minutes in the midfield. Not sure if he has the legs yet though.
 

Murray2503

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My bet at $6.50 on 40+ got up. That was good, I'd given up with a couple of minutes to go.
Was gonna bet 21plus but didn't get around to it. I knew we would get crushed. Selection only reinforced it. I could have retired betting against the crows more consistently this year.
 

WeedsMullet84

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There were so many occasions in yet game where the ball was marked about 80m out and there were always reasonable options leading in the 50. I'm not saying these were easy and it would have required some skill to execute, but definitely viable options.

The kicker 99 percent of the time assessed the option and then bombed long to the very low percentage option.

You then watch west coast absolute opposite going the other direction at speed.

Our players don't have the skill or confidence to hit these passes. They wait for a player to be the absolute clear before attempting such a pass. These things can't be easily taught in my opinion as players to into autopilot under such situations. This takes players with great self belief, skills and class.

This has been said 1000 times but we keep seeing it week in and week out.

This must change.


This is why i think it was harsh to chuck Frampton out of the team after 2 games. Himmelberg was hopeless.

He was playing without Walker for most of the first game, and managed 2 set shots of goal in the time Walker was on, and then had to play out the rest of that game AND then next with a clearly cooked Thilthorpe, and Himmelberg coming down with illness.

It's not just our I50 entries that are deplorable, it's our decision making when it comes to kicking to any contest.

The amount of times in the last month that I've seen us kicking to a 2-on-2 just for the sake of it, without realising the players we're kicking to are MCHENRY AND BERRY, who have two incoming tall defenders, just leaves me breathless. It doesn't seem like we've recruited footy smarts...

We've unfortunately reverted back to last years kick and hope into the forward line, and its hard to watch us do the same thing over and over.

Fog did a bit more in terms of making an impact on other areas aside from just set-shots at goal, which he needs to build on. He had a fantastic first half but faded out.

Our defensive work around stoppages killed us in the end, and it was even more disheartening to know that this came from our more experienced trio in Keays, Laird and Slaone. Keays did not have a good highlights package in terms of his defence. I did not count a single goal until deep into the 3rd where a genuine forward of their had scored a goal, it was all from their supporting mids.
 

WeedsMullet84

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I'm watching it :)

It's not as emotionally charged when you're watching a replay. A few players weren't as bad as it sounded reading it yesterday. Hamill is one I've liked and Himmelberg wasn't terrible considering our forward entries. Even thought Sloane wasn't as bad as I was expecting. Laird being ineffectual is correct and Rowe had a stinker.

WC dominated clearance work and clearly had much more class and experience through the middle and up forward. Keays and Schoenberg our only decent mids on the night.

Anyway, finished now.

Positive signs :

Schoenberg best on. Needs to spend Max time in the midfield now as most have said.

McPherson back to the form of last year. Really underrated game imo.

Hamill mostly good. Still too light and does miss the odd kick, but he's got dash and confidence, which is a point of difference.

Jones great first half. Looking 100 times better than last year and early this year. If he keeps up this trajectory that would be huge for us. Think he's going to cement a spot by years end, which I wouldn't have imagined earlier in the year.

Butts and Murray strong in the air down back.

Our youngsters showed some very good signs yesterday, which is important.

Keays a strong game and finished in front of goal.

Lynch and seed our best experienced players.

I don't like him but Kelly had a good game.

Talls had an almost game. Tex some uncharacteristic dumb moments. Fog great first half but couldn't get near it in the 2nd. Himm concrete hands but still managed two contested i50 marks and a few good contests around the ground. He at least has a football brain unlike Frampton. Terrible delivery in the second half didn't help these guys.

Bad:

Murphy just isn't what we need going forward. First game back but geez he doesn't have much footy iq. Been that way since day 1.

Rowe had a shocker and McHenry was quiet. There's our 3 small forwards providing nothing. Serious need for us. McHenry has shown enough to have a future, but Murphy should be phased out and still lots of ?? around Rowe given he can't pressure. Not going to win many of our forward entries suck and we have zero small forwards to lock the ball in.

Laird ineffective. He's been great this year but not yesterday.

Thought about was average. No damage on his kicks.

Mackay typical Mackay game. Looks okay on the run 3 times a game but a non entity otherwise.

Murdered around stoppages and CBs. Nic Nat too easy. Rob decent around the ground at least.

Other note:

Berry quiet although still has some nice touch when he gets it. Would like to see him with more minutes in the midfield. Not sure if he has the legs yet though.

Keays got burned 3 times in the highlights package ALONE, and all 3 of them where he lost his man and resulted in goals.
 

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