Good luck Jarryd Lyons

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He just does not, he finds less of it than all of our 3 main mids and his disposal certainly isn't any better. We would not be a better side with Lyons in it now, before or in the future. There is no way he'd be getting games in front of Sloane or Crouch x2, and at least Greenwood and CEY add some size and muscle to the mix. And Lyons is not a forward by the way, he's an inside midfielder that occasionally has a run up forward and it might interest you to know Brad Crouch has kicked more goals in 2019 than Lyons.
And that’s the point - maybe he should have been getting games, certainly more midfield minutes than he got.

We have seem to be wedded to the view that we have this league leading elite midfield - but it’s really not. It’s one paced and just average. Won’t win us a flag that’s for sure
 
Our midfield has been embarrassed more times in big games than I care to remember, and the reality is we erred in not giving him midfield time in favour of those who seem to have an unfettered tenure.

Gallucci is shaping as a carbon copy. Can’t get a run in a midfield that offered up 12 I50’s in a half against a team that a Lyons led midfield smashed.
Lyons wasn't the solution then and Lyons is not the solution now, he's more of the same with less talent than our 3 inside mids, we need a more dynamic mix to go with Sloane and Crouch x 2. Lyons was very ordinary in the Brisbane game against us, a game Matt Crouch did not play in, Lachie Neale was outstanding and carried the Brisbane midfield in that game. Lachie Neale is the main reason Brisbane's midfield is so good this season along with the continued rise of their talented youngsters, Neale a big upgrade on the output of their then No.1 mid Dayne Beams in 2018.
 
I don't think anyone here has ever said he's not a good player, he's the exact same as every other midfielder we have though and not as good as them. CEY and Greenwood both get ahead of him because of their size, Greenwood is slicker in traffic, CEY can bulldoze, and he's not better than Sloane or the Crouches. This is the board crying out for something different in the midfield, but then complaining we got rid of Lyons.
I don't really agree with that but as has been said, directly comparing and arguing whether Lyons would be better or worse than players in our current team is a bit of a pointless exercise since he's been gone from the club for so long and won't come back. I just find it funny that the same detractors of Lyons still will find reasons to downplay his game even though he's been steadily improving throughout his career and is now one of the best performing players in a very in form side.

What I find more interesting is how well Fagan seems to be able to integrate new recruits into his system and play to their strengths. They have created a paddock for Cameron and know how to get him into one on one situations and now he is a genuine star of the competition. He was a bit part player with us and it wouldn't have made sense to match Brisbane's offer on what he could produce working in our system. I've read on the Brisbane board that Lyons has been tasked with scouting opposition midfield setups during the week and helps work out how to structure against them.

I think we operate with a very fixed idea of what the game plan is and try to hammer newer players into that plan rather than tinker it around them. I think guys we've traded in recently especially just don't make sense to me eg Gibbs, McAdam, Stengle either we don't want to play them or we don't know how to fit them in at all.
 
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Even Lyons' fans don't mind that he was moved on and understand why

What grates is that when we did have him we didn't even use him, preferring a cooked Thompson and an influence-less Douglas in the middle.

So we didn't get proper value out of him as a player, our midfield regularly folded like a deck of cards in big games anyway, and in turn we didn't get much for him in a trade.
We didn't even use him? We played him in 20 games in 2016, he averaged 22 disposals and 4 clearances. Douglas averaged less in both, so I'm not sure how you get the impression Douglas was favoured over Lyons in the midfield.

We didn't get "proper" value for him because Gold Coast were literally the only team who wanted him and knew we wouldn't match their financial terms to keep him. The Suns then couldn't even get a pick in the 40's for him and let him go for nothing.
 
We didn't even use him? We played him in 20 games in 2016, he averaged 22 disposals and 4 clearances. Douglas averaged less in both, so I'm not sure how you get the impression Douglas was favoured over Lyons in the midfield.

We didn't get "proper" value for him because Gold Coast were literally the only team who wanted him and knew we wouldn't match their financial terms to keep him. The Suns then couldn't even get a pick in the 40's for him and let him go for nothing.

Douglas played more midfield is how. Lyons was almost permanently a half forward.
 
I don't really agree with that but as has been said, directly comparing and arguing whether Lyons would be better or worse than players in our current team is a bit of a pointless exercise since he's been gone from the club for so long and won't come back. I just find it funny that the same detractors of Lyons still will find reasons to downplay his game even though he's been steadily improving throughout his career and is now one of the best performing players in a very in form side.

What I find more interesting is how well Fagan seems to be able to integrate new recruits into his system and play to their strengths. They have created a paddock for Cameron and know how to get him into one on one situations and now he is a genuine star of the competition. He was a bit part player with us and it wouldn't have made sense to match Brisbane's offer on what he could produce working in our system. I've read on the Brisbane board that Lyons has been tasked with scouting opposition midfield setups during the week and helps work out how to structure against them.

I think we operate with a very fixed idea of what the game plan is and try to hammer newer players into that plan rather than tinker it around them. I think guys we've traded in recently especially just don't make sense to me eg Gibbs, McAdam, Stengle either we don't want to play them or we don't know how to fit them in at all.

I've been questioning in other threads why we traded McAdam and Stengle into the club. Usually if you trade its because they can have a positive impact immediately not twelve months down the track. Whilst I know McAdam has had some injury issues I still can not fathom out the clubs actions.
 
There are some feats of mental gymnastics in this thread. I think it's plain to see the Lyons trade was an absolute shocker from Adelaide. They must have run out of cap space because it doesn't make any sense to let a player of his caliber walk out the door for peanuts while he's in the prime of his career.

Before anybody chimes in, yeah I know the Suns let him walk out the door too but they're a rabble and the most poorly run club in the league. If you want to side with those losers, that's on you.
 
It's interesting how Lyons detractors have shifted the goalposts over time.

He isn't good enough to make it at AFL level.

Okay he's made it at AFL level but it will only ever be as a depth player. He'll never be a best 22 player.

Okay he's a best 22 player but he'll never be one of the best players on his team.

Okay he's one of the best players on his team but it's Gold Coast and they're s**t. He'll never be an important player at a good team.

Okay he's gunning it for a top 4 side but uhhh.... look at stat X compared to player Y he's not as good as that guy!


Said it at the time, obvious replacement for Douglas, and is out performing him massively.

A significant list management error.

Similar to Hendo; traded him, kept Mackay - who is a better footballer?
 
Some people condemn Brad Crouch's disposal efficiency endlessly on here...

Some of the same people still covet Lyons endlessly on here.

Currently Lyons 2019 season DE% 58.9% - Brad Crouch 2019 season DE% 62.7%

I might point out up until last night Brad Crouch has played almost purely midfield whereas Lyons has spent periods playing half forward during some games, Brad also finds a fair bit more pill than Lyons fairly consistently.

Lyons 2019 DE% by match.
vs Port = 50%
vs GWS = 23.8%
vs Demons = 63.6%
vs Saints = 54.2%
vs Blues = 46.7%
vs Hawks = 66.7%
vs Dockers = 88.9%
vs Crows = 57.1%
vs Dogs = 48%
vs Swans = 47.8%
vs GCS = 74.1%
vs Pies = 61.5%
vs Bombers = 88.9%
vs Power = 41.2%
vs Kangas = 84.2%
vs Eagles = 53.8%
I didn't see Jarryds game against Port but I would suggest it was slightly better than Brads effort against Port the week before?
 
I didn't see Jarryds game against Port but I would suggest it was slightly better than Brads effort against Port the week before?

As hard as I try to find it I don't see Lyons name on the AFLCA Coach's leaderboard. Didn't have too much trouble finding Brad's name however

709606
 

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It's interesting how Lyons detractors have shifted the goalposts over time.

He isn't good enough to make it at AFL level.

Okay he's made it at AFL level but it will only ever be as a depth player. He'll never be a best 22 player.

Okay he's a best 22 player but he'll never be one of the best players on his team.

Okay he's one of the best players on his team but it's Gold Coast and they're s**t. He'll never be an important player at a good team.

Okay he's gunning it for a top 4 side but uhhh.... look at stat X compared to player Y he's not as good as that guy!
Those goalposts have shifted all the way around AO and back to where they started! He's obviously a quality player and after a slow start to the year he is gaining some confidence now. I will be interested to see how he performs in the finals in a talented Brisbane side. I suspect both will do well.
 
I've been questioning in other threads why we traded McAdam and Stengle into the club. Usually if you trade its because they can have a positive impact immediately not twelve months down the track. Whilst I know McAdam has had some injury issues I still can not fathom out the clubs actions.

I think because we don’t have access to top draft picks and struggle to find any better players who want to come to SA

So we have to get who we can - a fringe small forward from Richmond who is from SA initially and a kid with x-factor who’s been playing in the SANFL under one of our assistant coaches
 
Said it at the time, obvious replacement for Douglas, and is out performing him massively.

A significant list management error.

Similar to Hendo; traded him, kept Mackay - who is a better footballer?

This is a fair point, although sometimes players thrive better in a new environment

I wonder if Dougie or DMac would like to find out??
 
Said it at the time, obvious replacement for Douglas, and is out performing him massively.

A significant list management error.

Similar to Hendo; traded him, kept Mackay - who is a better footballer?
We didn't even trade out Hendo, we delisted him and Hawthorn got him for nothing.
Now, Lyons was worth more than we got for him, and him being delisted by GC while still in contract shows just how poor a coach Dew is.
 
As hard as I try to find it I don't see Lyons name on the AFLCA Coach's leaderboard. Didn't have too much trouble finding Brad's name however

View attachment 709606
Polled maximum votes on the weekend against Port. Against the same midfield that destroyed us a week ago.
Brad really hasn't scored many votes since the Richmond game in round 13. (2 votes against GC).
 
Polled maximum votes on the weekend against Port. Against the same midfield that destroyed us a week ago.
Brad really hasn't scored many votes since the Richmond game in round 13. (2 votes against GC).
Mate you're flogging a dead horse, nobody said Lyons was a s**t footballer, but it was the right decision to move him on both for Jarryd and the club as there is no way he gets games in front of our other more talented inside mids Rory Sloane, Matt Crouch or Brad Crouch. If you can't see we need a more dynamic mix with outside speed and good ball use added to our midfield mix you've not been watching....and that's certainly not Jarryd Lyons.
 
Mate you're flogging a dead horse, nobody said Lyons was a s**t footballer, but it was the right decision to move him on both for Jarryd and the club as there is no way he gets games in front of our other more talented inside mids Rory Sloane, Matt Crouch or Brad Crouch. If you can't see we need a more dynamic mix with outside speed and good ball use added to our midfield mix you've not been watching....and that's certainly not Jarryd Lyons.
We didn't "move him on" He was offered a contract albeit very low as is our custom. From what I understand Lyons was very much required but because of the first Gibbs Trade attempt going to the wire GC got their man and we missed the boat.
 
We didn't "move him on" He was offered a contract albeit very low as is our custom. From what I understand Lyons was very much required but because of the first Gibbs Trade attempt going to the wire GC got their man and we missed the boat.
Come on, that's bullshit, he was offered a contract comensurate with that of a fringe best 22/depth player and chose not to accept it, very much required is just plain ridiculous...you do not lowball "very much required" players as you put it.
 
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Polled maximum votes on the weekend against Port. Against the same midfield that destroyed us a week ago.
Brad really hasn't scored many votes since the Richmond game in round 13. (2 votes against GC).
And when Jarryd actually played against us and our supposedly "s**t" midfield in Round 4 in a match one of our best mids Matt Crouch didn't even play in how many votes did Jarryd get? A match that Brisbane won by a solitary point on their own home deck? Wonder who the only Crow to poll coach's votes was?

709665
 
Come on, that's bulls**t, he was offered a contract comensurate with that of a fringe best 22/depth player and chose not to accept it, very much required is just plain ridiculous...you do not lowball "very much required" players.
So you say he chose not to accept it? That's different from being "moved on"
 
And when Jarryd actually played against us and our supposedly "s**t" midfield in Round 4 in a match one of our best mids Matt Crouch didn't even play in how many votes did Jarryd get? A match that Brisbane won by a solitary point on their own home deck? Wonder who the only Crow to poll coach's votes was?

View attachment 709665
I did mention in an earlier post that Jarryd started slowly this year.
 

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