Review Good vs Carlton

[WheresGroomgone]

Great to knock off Carlton their Bigfooty fans have grown the hate in me - previously didn't mind them due to Mark Naley.

Scholl fantastic game followed closely by Schorenberg he simply should not be doing what he is this early, gold tackles like that guy that ran off to Geebong.

For those bagging Jones I thought some of his touches showed what he can do - he has it - give him time.

McLovin and Betts - right choice AFC.

McAdam has a lot of toe and hits hard, bit down today as was Stengle but that's ok as others stood up.

June seems like so long ago actually looking forward to 2021!

 

[BRL121]

Yep - one who did not cope well with out getting slaughtered each week. But that mark and goal was class.

Yes. I think the comments that he needs to build his body up are off the mark: I think he's done that already. When I saw him take that mark, I actually thought it was a key forward, and I hadn't been drinking!

He does need to get the ball more though. Sometimes he just looks lost out there near the ball, as if he's got no idea what to do. At other times, he just goes for it. I've got no idea what's going on there.

 

[BRL121]

Must admit I had given up on McPherson.

But FMD he is a player. He is going to be very good very quickly.

The key to him is that he doesn't make mistakes: I like that in a player.

 

[Golumless]

You've done a lot of guessing here, and have taken a simplistic view ......the way Champion Data measure performances is in no way a secret .....if you follow SuperCoach or Fantasy AFL , you would know how players are measured

Anyway, in terms of your assessment, SuperCoach is the closest measurement tool, which favors contested ball, disposal efficiency and game impact .......simply disposals is not a measurement at all, sorry mate

If you want to discuss today, you do know Curnow was on M.Crouch a proportion of the day, starting originally on Laird
Why is this noteworthy .....well you're right historically teams haven't tagged Crouch or Tom Mitchell ...their disposals have minimal hurt factor

He is not, or never will be a strong mtrs gained player ......his ratio of contested ball to uncontested hasn't changed much, although he was down today

What has changed is his pressure on the player with the ball ....tackling numbers are up, but to say he has changed his game off 4 games is too small a snapshot ...but there's enough evidence there he is not crabbing and is attempting to handball & kick forward more .....he's still a work in progress, and he still regress's in periods of games back to those dinky handballs .....but you can see he's trying to change his game, and he'll be more dangerous as a result

View attachment 960606

With the guesses, there really isn't much information on what gives those outputs (from a direct source at any rate), and yeah, with the simplistic view, I mean the goal of any algorithm/model is to keep it as simple as possible whilst getting a result which stands up to scrutiny. After all, the computer you're running it on becomes your biggest problem if you go too complicated.

The guesses where what I'd do with said model, and areas I would be worried about. For instance, finding a method that'd reward good performance but also outing someone who was picking up a lot of cheap disposals and not doing anything with them which would be an absolute nightmare to work out, but also vital for this to be able to do well. I don't follow supercoach, or AFL fantasy though as I've never been able to fully commit to a season without getting bored. That said, it seems like supercoach does crudely follow the CD rating by looking at its Wikipedia page. There are definitely aspects to the CD algorithm that doesn't get included in the supercoach one, which is probably for the sake of it being a game based on stats, and it becomes less fun if the stats aren't available to the public. After all, out of Adelaide players, Matt is 7th in supercoach ratings, 20th in CD ratings against Carlton showing said disagreement. Though of course, there is also the possibility that somewhere along the line, someone ****ed up and put the wrong stats in for two players. I could imagine stuff like that does happen from time to time, seeing mistakes do happen. That said, no one outside of Jones/Fog stand out as being too high on our team.

I genuinely like that disposals don't rate at all on their own for both, as someone who has an interest in football statistics, they are a useless metric. By your post, and if you've played supercoach for a while, I would expect you to have a good understanding of some of the basics of the CD model (even if its accidental from what it rewards, and ignores). It does look like some of those red flags I picked do agree with how you described it, seeing I mentioned all of them bar disposal efficiency, so at least I guessed why he scored a 78 in SC and at least a part of the story with CD

Under no point am I personally worried about Matts performance, as I thought he played well and was frankly shocked to see him rate as low as he did (as there is no way I'd have him in my bottom 3-4 players). Though there are definitely kinks that need to be ironed out again. I am definitely coming from a place where I am more interested in the statistical algorithm/computer modelling side of these ratings, and where its failings are.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

With the guesses, there really isn't much information on what gives those outputs (from a direct source at any rate), and yeah, with the simplistic view, I mean the goal of any algorithm/model is to keep it as simple as possible whilst getting a result which stands up to scrutiny. After all, the computer you're running it on becomes your biggest problem if you go too complicated.

The guesses where what I'd do with said model, and areas I would be worried about. For instance, finding a method that'd reward good performance but also outing someone who was picking up a lot of cheap disposals and not doing anything with them which would be an absolute nightmare to work out, but also vital for this to be able to do well. I don't follow supercoach, or AFL fantasy though as I've never been able to fully commit to a season without getting bored. That said, it seems like supercoach does crudely follow the CD rating by looking at its Wikipedia page. There are definitely aspects to the CD algorithm that doesn't get included in the supercoach one, which is probably for the sake of it being a game based on stats, and it becomes less fun if the stats aren't available to the public. After all, out of Adelaide players, Matt is 7th in supercoach ratings, 20th in CD ratings against Carlton showing said disagreement. Though of course, there is also the possibility that somewhere along the line, someone f’ed up and put the wrong stats in for two players. I could imagine stuff like that does happen from time to time, seeing mistakes do happen. That said, no one outside of Jones/Fog stand out as being too high on our team.

I genuinely like that disposals don't rate at all on their own for both, as someone who has an interest in football statistics, they are a useless metric. By your post, and if you've played supercoach for a while, I would expect you to have a good understanding of some of the basics of the CD model (even if its accidental from what it rewards, and ignores). It does look like some of those red flags I picked do agree with how you described it, seeing I mentioned all of them bar disposal efficiency, so at least I guessed why he scored a 78 in SC and at least a part of the story with CD

Under no point am I personally worried about Matts performance, as I thought he played well and was frankly shocked to see him rate as low as he did (as there is no way I'd have him in my bottom 3-4 players). Though there are definitely kinks that need to be ironed out again. I am definitely coming from a place where I am more interested in the statistical algorithm/computer modelling side of these ratings, and where its failings are.

Matt Crouch is trying to change his game style ......can you change the way you've played for 4 years immediately, no you can't .....and he does regress back to his nothing type disposals for periods in games

But you can see what he's trying to change .....is it his choice to change, no ......it was the messaging he received when he was dropped ...so Nicks can see what we can

I'm Crouch's biggest critic ....but he gets points for changing his footy game ......but still a work in progress

 

[Golumless]

Matt Crouch is trying to change his game style ......can you change the way you've played for 4 years immediately, no you can't .....and he does regress back to his nothing type disposals for periods in games

But you can see what he's trying to change .....is it his choice to change, no ......it was the messaging he received when he was dropped ...so Nicks can see what we can

I'm Crouch's biggest critic ....but he gets points for changing his footy game ......but still a work in progress

Yeah, I'd agree that regressions would be a part of development. There is no way any person would be able to say "I'm going to get better at this" and immediately have it be consistent when under pressure. Much like I didn't find the drop off in pressure in the 3rd quarter too surprising, it had been due seeing its a pretty young side and its a full 180 from how we were playing in 2019.

At the moment, he's won me back with his last month. Especially the GWS game which is probably the best game of football he's played since the '17 grand final. There is certainly a place for him as a key part of this rebuild in my eyes.

 

[Golumless]

Maybe the direct competition helped Himmelberg to break out?

It's certainly possible. Frampton did put Himmelberg on the scrap heap in the early part of this season.

 

[huludicidal]

Carlton just let Gibbs run around without an opponent all day, so we played through him instead, and since he was hitting targets why wouldn't we? Just the way it worked out.

It’s a valid point re Gibbs and I accept that this was a factor, but I still would have liked to have seen a bit more from a former All-Australian in the prime of his career in Smith. Did he even have a kick in the 2nd half?

 

[Jirkago75]

I have to apologise to Nicks, didn’t think he had it in him.

Start of the year our mids were diabolical, could get a clearance or a clean ball out the centre. He has absolutely changed the setups and we have been rewarded big time. The mids now win our fair share but also clean ball running forward to goal. Laird has surprised me and Berg has been a revelation. the Crouches have tinkered their game as well.

Nicks deserves big big credit, sorry I doubted you


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Bay62]

Jones best left in the forward line at his current stage of progression. His pace is needed there and kicking goals will increase his confidence. Once he builds his body up I would give him bursts through the midfield but he may end up being a forward. Time will tell.

Yes today you could see what he had to offer up there. Good overhead mark, speed and accurate kick. Could work out longer term.

 

[Hank93]

I don't post often anymore but you can start to see light at the end of the tunnel. Scholl, Scho, McPherson, Stengle, McAdam all showing enormous promise. Himmelberg coming together too.

Add in pick 1/(2-With dogs academy player) and plenty to look forward to. Exciting!

 

[GROTTO]

I don't post often anymore but you can start to see light at the end of the tunnel. Scholl, Scho, McPherson, Stengle, McAdam all showing enormous promise. Himmelberg coming together too.

Add in pick 1/(2-With dogs academy player) and plenty to look forward to. Exciting!

Over the next two years there should be a solid 4-5 quality players added to todays team that won, with the bottom 4 players as outs.

2022 will be an exciting time looking ahead.

 

[BACCS]

Jeez sholl looks a player. An absolute steal. How did he drop to the 60's in the draft.

I saw someone say on here during the week that Geelong were super keen on him but we managed to trade up above them and get in just before their pick in the 60s. Something none of us probably noticed at the time but is a great story now!

 

[Jinglebells32]

I kind of get 2018 as it felt like we could still compete but I agree with 2019 especially when a number of the Senior players were under performing. The team needed an injection of youth last year.

I was angry that Sholl, Hammil & McAdam didn't get a look in last year.

 

[GROTTO]

I kind of get 2018 as it felt like we could still compete but I agree with 2019 especially when a number of the Senior players were under performing. The team needed an injection of youth last year.

Pyke placed his needs ahead of the Clubs.

 

[Bay62]

Sholl was fantastic today. Will be rising star nom this week but Shoenberg had a cracker too and probably would have got the RS if Sholl didnt.

In and under. So clean when the balls on the ground. 21disp. 3 clearances. 4 marks. 5 tackles...

Didnt think Shoey would be able to run out more than a couple games in a row but hes going to be a jet.

A little one handed pick up, wheels around, gets the ball out

Somewhat Danger-esque

 

[Kezza86]

Interestingly, in the pre game warm up today both Fog and Himmelberg we’re practicing drills where the ball comes in for a marking contest and they brought it to ground for the small crumbing player. so they weren’t trying to mark it, but bring the smalls into the game.

Called a warmup drill for small forwards

 

[ams4crows]

It seemed like today the directive was to go through Sholl because of his beautiful kick.

 

[ABAB]

Must admit I had given up on McPherson.

But FMD he is a player. He is going to be very good very quickly.

Projected as 1st rounder but had injuries during his draft year so slipped down to 40 (we probably would have selected him with pick 16 if not for the Gibbs trade), finally got over his injuries after 2 years in the system and when Burton left......

 

[Danger_zone]

Evolution of the Crows.

credit to reddit poster NoUseForALagwagon

 

[rocket18]

its like the AFL wanted to rub a bit more salt into Carlton's wounds by putting up this about Shane McAdam. Elite in a few areas in what is really his first season of AFL after cutting his teeth last year in the SANFL side

Look on the bright side: Future stars give hope to bottom-four fans

Jourdan Canil looks at four players from 2020's strugglers that should give their fans hope

www.afl.com.au

Pretty funny " Ironically, McAdam has McGovern covered for goals, score involvements, pressure acts and even contested marks this season."

And all for probably a quarter of the money McNuggetts is on.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Pretty funny " Ironically, McAdam has McGovern covered for goals, score involvements, pressure acts and even contested marks this season."

And all for probably a quarter of the money McNuggetts is on.

& we got a 1st rounder too, which enabled us to get McHenry.

 

[Sanders]

Instead of excusing Jones’ 6 touch game on the HFF

shouldn’t we be asking *why* he isn’t getting any midfield burn?

 

[1991firstgamer]

its like the AFL wanted to rub a bit more salt into Carlton's wounds by putting up this about Shane McAdam. Elite in a few areas in what is really his first season of AFL after cutting his teeth last year in the SANFL side

Look on the bright side: Future stars give hope to bottom-four fans

Jourdan Canil looks at four players from 2020's strugglers that should give their fans hope

www.afl.com.au

Actually cut his teeth at Sturt in 2018

Sent from my SM-J730G using Tapatalk

 

[Large 1]

Scholl is a class act. Has elite foot skills and distribution capacity, but will put his head over the ball when required - like an upgraded Atkins

Although he does tackle as much as Atkins. But that will change as he puts on size.