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Premiership Player
I’m talking from yr 7 to yr 12.
Goulburn Valley FL 2020
- Thread starter The Speciman
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I’m talking from yr 7 to yr 12.
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Premiership Player
Plenty of very good points.
- Jul 25, 2014
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Nice that you referenced Kyabram without naming them in your first argument about using less than 30 points. 'Winners are grinners' Jon. Obviously you don't have to be a fan of points or the cap mate!
You however missed the point us 'whingers' are attempting to make. Sorry to bore you with your having to read the conversation people are engaged in on here. Passionate country football followers from multiple leagues are contributing to the points discussion.
As for ' (our ... the whingers) clubs being in the wrong league'... classy comment mate.
Good skills.
Any space up there on your ivory tower?
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This is a forum yeah? We don’t all have to agree. I’m all ears if you want to answer the questions I have raised. If the points system is crippling the league than why aren’t all teams recruiting and playing with the maximum points allowed??
No ivory tower here, just a “passionate country football supporter” who is proud of there club for working their but off to maintain and keep their culture and success.
Not all clubs are in a position to attempt to improve there squad enough to challenge . The issue with the current point system is that a bottom side can’t recruit enough players to challenge and then go again the following year if they don’t quite challenge . The premise of the points system is that clubs gradually improve year after year , the reality is that if a club wishes to move up the ladder and attract the necessary players to do so , they have to recruit mass players and the lower they are on the ladder the more they have to recruit . Gun players who have no prior affiliation don’t join a bottom side to move from 12th to 9th . 9th to 6th the 2nd year , etc etc .
so the problem you get is you might have a club like Echuca for instance who has built their list , gained some recruits and then all of a sudden their kids are noticed and off to VFL etc and they can’t replace those 1 pointers and improve . Whilst soon as a club looks like challenging a club like Ky who is top of the tree can simply use a few of the 20 points they’ve got up their sleeve to stay ahead of the pack .
It’s still a shitload , 3/4 of a team over two grades for most . Probably just shows how accustom some have become to the situation they enjoy , whilst not understanding the plight of others .
Those sort of numbers into a team like Tatura would be massive , yet appears insignificant to a club like Echuca.
- Nov 20, 2018
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The club's at the bottom playing with 13 spare points, mightnt have the bankroll to be getting an extra two 5 pointers and a 3. They'd be coming from a distance so there's no extra point from intraleague recruiting, and good players hardly travel down the highway for under a K a game.
If you've got the bankroll to keep them enticed for a few years to drop points to be able to recruit more and ultimately strengthen, that's great.
But, then you get the guns for hire that play for a year and get offered coin by a superior club and take off, leaving them to recruit to replace rather than strengthen.
It's not all necessarily down to just the points system, but may be a reason some can't play each week at max points.
There is an extra point for recruiting from a club whom you compete against , regardless of where your positioned on the ladder .
I’d suggest the difference between the bottom couple and the top 4 is more than 2x5 pointers and a 3 pointer.
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- Nov 20, 2018
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Oh massive difference.
I'd suggest the top sides are keeping valuable point players who over years of retention have lowered to afford new multi point players which keeps them very strong. And, target the right recruits needed. But that also takes good money.
Balwyn in the EFL are a good example.
Pearcedale in the MPNFL are an example of bad recruiting, playing at max points each week to win 1 game and lose the rest by 20+ goals.
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And we keep raising enough to get them on the field
Credit to our town jon
It’s easier to keep players in a winning successful side than it is to recruit to a side or keep at a side that has been losing .
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That's my point. And it can take good coin to get those recruits and to keep them in order to build. So some may leave talks to late or not have enough to entice big point players to play at close to max points. Or maybe saving up
Or you can get fringe 3 pointers from surrounding leagues and not go anywhere.
- Jul 25, 2014
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Many clubs will take the pain of a few years being uncompetitive and 'suck it up' so to speak as they reduce points while trying to hang onto imports. There is no other option under the points system so not much point throwing $$ at a year where you have no realistic chance. Would be interested to here from the guru about exactly what initiatives these clubs should implement to get better other than what they are doing and what others are suggesting..
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Premiership Player
Talking u 14 u 16 u 18
Plus some of those Rochy kids actually play footy at Colbo and Elmore.
Rochy’s threat isn’t schools its district clubs with under 17s
- Jul 25, 2014
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It's not a threat Post. It's a reciprocal relationship the same as other GV clubs with High Schools. You know as well as I that the U 17's from Locky, Elmore and Colbo often come in and play a year in the 18's at Rochy rather than play district two's.
Some stay, some go back home after 18's. Healthy though.
Guru
Guru? Nice one legend, I never said I agreed or liked the system but I do feel that some supporters use it as an excuse. I don’t proclaim to have the magic answers but i know clubs like Benalla, swans, shepp, Ky and to a lesser extent rochy have all been at the top of the tree in the past 6 years. Why is it that the points system didn’t help the other teams remain dominant or stay competitive in the swans case. You still have to create an environment that players want to come back to. That would be my number one priority.
Guru? Nice one legend, I never said I agreed or liked the system but I do feel that some supporters use it as an excuse. I don’t proclaim to have the magic answers but i know clubs like Benalla, swans, shepp, Ky and to a lesser extent rochy have all been at the top of the tree in the past 6 years. Why is it that the points system didn’t help the other teams remain dominant or stay competitive in the swans case. You still have to create an environment that players want to come back to. That would be my number one priority.
- Jul 25, 2014
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Read your last paragraph Jon.
'Stop making excuses and find ways to get better, if not then maybe your club is in the wrong league.' Your words not mine.
Whispers, Roar, Ultra and others have offered some solid arguments as to why the points systems lacks equity and makes it especially difficult for clubs to rise up the ladder. They also offered counter arguments to why clubs are not spending huge $$ and using maximum points. You sit and call us whingers and from your privileged position make glib comments about getting better What would you do Jon? Should Tatura build a secondary school and import 400 boys into said school to create an equal playing field?
Seriously Jon, what would you do?
Would you recruit four players from a neighbouring GV club? Good idea! But sadly clubs cannot do that anymore. Under the current system, once the Sheldon's, Williams and Childs became 1-2 pointers Kyabram could bring in the Smith's (partner of a local girl I believe) and Crowe's from other GV clubs. Recruit another Sheldon. And have a league representative from the O&M arrive as a journalist in Mattingly. That last one was just luck.
Your argument about creating something that players want to come back to is hardly groundbreaking. Good clubs do that. But not all good clubs are equal in this system.
The key is to get a core group of locals 12-16 locals, varying age brackets and add a couple of recruits, most sides that have gone on back to back premiership success is based on strong locals eg Ky, Kerang, Maffra etc
Most sides that try and buy a flag don't end upgetting the choccies look at balranald, one of the better sides in the state on paper through the early 2000's and only won a couple of flags, Shepp Swans under mekkka and boort in 81, one of the best sides ever assembled lost to locals from wyche in the gf
Most sides that try and buy a flag don't end upgetting the choccies look at balranald, one of the better sides in the state on paper through the early 2000's and only won a couple of flags, Shepp Swans under mekkka and boort in 81, one of the best sides ever assembled lost to locals from wyche in the gf
Privileged position, your kidding. In 2007 Ky were on its knees in its worst state in history. They made a fantastic coaching appointment in Dirty Williams and set him a mandate of rebuilding the clubs culture and to attract former players back. They than preceded to make 8 of the next 12 grand finals. This was achieved by being relentless in keeping and getting back local players and topping up with quality recruits. 15 Ky 3rds players played in last Years premiership, might not be “groundbreaking” but I’d suggest it’s a pretty good place to start. Echuca seem to be following the same path which is working well for them. Benalla have started to get back some of there premiership players as have the swans.
As for recruiting 4 blokes another gv club, Sam Sheldon came from brisbane and didn’t play for Echuca, Tom was recruited from Nathalia, Reid crow from Chelsea in Melbourne and mattingley had all but signed for tat as he was living with two guys from there.
So what you call privileged I call hard work, a well run club and culture which was built from scratch.
Yep I agree some clubs face bigger challenges than others but I don’t believe there positions can be purely blamed on the points system.
I’m done with this topic, it needs an overhaul or to be scrapped but in my opinion the clubs will still face the same challenges. The days of recruiting 5-6 guys out of Melbourne to shoot up the ladder have become far to expensive for country clubs.
- Jul 25, 2014
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Yes I agree Jon. There is no solving this debate. I wish you had of posted this in the initial instance.
As a Rochy person, I know exactly how Dirty Williams builds culture. Rochy were shite in the 80's then Geoff Rosenow followed by Nigel Van der Veer had them in GF's 89-90. Dirty came back and it kicked off from there. Everything you described at Ky, he did at Rochy from '92-2007. Locals came back, juniors nurtured.. And he encouraged the odd ex-Melbourne player or gun metro/country recruit also.
Anyway, culture and availability to 1 pointers are the key.. We both agree on culture, let's agree to disagree about points.
Believe Sam Martyn has retired from all levels of football.
TorpedoPunt1
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- Sep 27, 2019
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Reason? Interesting given Benalla’s recruiting
Travelling apparently. Started pre season at Willy but decided to do that. Will be missed as a player and person.
Grasscutter99
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I asked that too Grasscutter but no feedback posts as of yet. I was also wondering about Seymour as well.
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