Society/Culture Governments: Accepted path of corruption?

[iBeng]

I was thinking this last night after the responses of the current Australian government to the current bush fire crisis, as well as their perceived or legitimate contributions to its intensity.

Its fairly evident in current society that being in Government is a career choice more than a choice to help society both survive and flourish. You regularly see politicians doing everything they can to improve their image and position to secure their personal future. Deals are made, hands are shaken and the money makes the world go round, as they say. But they also say that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, which is evident in politics/governments around the world.

Are we, as humans, too hungry for power and control to safely govern ourselves without eventual corruption? And do the few that go through the system with actual desire to help society improve fail in their efforts because of this? And then are labeled as failures by the very ones that restrict their efforts, to guile the general population to continue their acceptance of what is legitimate corruption?

Ive been on this planet for 31 years now, and its only in the last 3 or so that Ive taken more interest in the workings of political and governmental systems and...its honestly disheartening and concerning what the system actually does and produces.

And the answer isnt socialism, or communism or any of the systems we currently have or have tried. All of those lead to some form of corruption, which shows we are incapable of governing our fellow humans without using that power to our advantage.

So what is the answer? Some sort of created, AI like governance? True Freedom, where everyone just does their own thing? Continued reliance on a system that produces power and money hungry rulers?

 

[Caesar]

Didn't someone once say democracy is the worst system, apart from all the rest?

The best advice I can give you is never attribute to malice what can be safely explained by incompetence. There is very little corruption in Australia, but a lot of stuff-ups. Plenty of people are self-involved people with petty and self-serving agendas, but the red tape that serves as endless fodder for shows like Utopia means that malicious and underhand deals are rare and usually caught. Most of the mistakes and inefficiencies and failures are just part and parcel of working in a huge organisation, and all the bureaucracy that entails.

Spend a bit of time around politicians and senior public servants, and you will become a lot more sanguine about the whole process. They may not always be our best and brightest, but the vast majority have at least some element of public spiritedness. They have to - compared to the private sector, the paycheque doesn't go remotely close to being worth the workload and the grief they cop.

 

[Chief]

There is very little corruption in Australia,

State and local councils are pretty ripe in places.

 

[Caesar]

State and local councils are pretty ripe in places.

That is a fair point, although I like to think that they have become a lot more professional in recent decades.

Generally speaking we come out pretty high on anti-corruption indexes.

 

[Cooldude]

There's always corruption in any governmental system or ideology, and prevalence of corruption correlations with a poorer society in many ways

How to control and weed out corruption has always been one of the biggest challenges.

Democracy has always been laden with corruption even going back to the Roman Republic days, at its modern form, bribery has been branded as legal donations, lobbyists pull the strings and corporate media controls the masses through information control.

An independent ICAC with actual power would help with the problem as a first step, but there ain't no way the corrupted politicians would pass something to police themselves with

 

[This Is Anfield]

I was thinking this last night after the responses of the current Australian government to the current bush fire crisis, as well as their perceived or legitimate contributions to its intensity.

Its fairly evident in current society that being in Government is a career choice more than a choice to help society both survive and flourish. You regularly see politicians doing everything they can to improve their image and position to secure their personal future. Deals are made, hands are shaken and the money makes the world go round, as they say. But they also say that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, which is evident in politics/governments around the world.

Are we, as humans, too hungry for power and control to safely govern ourselves without eventual corruption? And do the few that go through the system with actual desire to help society improve fail in their efforts because of this? And then are labeled as failures by the very ones that restrict their efforts, to guile the general population to continue their acceptance of what is legitimate corruption?

Ive been on this planet for 31 years now, and its only in the last 3 or so that Ive taken more interest in the workings of political and governmental systems and...its honestly disheartening and concerning what the system actually does and produces.

And the answer isnt socialism, or communism or any of the systems we currently have or have tried. All of those lead to some form of corruption, which shows we are incapable of governing our fellow humans without using that power to our advantage.

So what is the answer? Some sort of created, AI like governance? True Freedom, where everyone just does their own thing? Continued reliance on a system that produces power and money hungry rulers?

I have a feeling that most in power, be it business or politics, are sociopathic in nature.
I'm waiting for a benevolent AI to cruise by, take a look and decide that this planet needs help!!!

 

[Mofra]

So what is the answer? Some sort of created, AI like governance? True Freedom, where everyone just does their own thing? Continued reliance on a system that produces power and money hungry rulers?

I won't say it is the answer, but there was a minor party (something like Senator OnLine) that suggested replacing the senate with an online mechanism for Australians to log on and vote for every bill passed by the house of reps, basically giving the public the vote on every senate vote.

Not sure if the people behind it are the new Flux party or not.

Given MyGov account have spread so quickly it does facilitate a mechanism for more public involvement in decision making processes.

 

[iBeng]

I have a feeling that most in power, be it business or politics, are sociopathic in nature.
I'm waiting for a benevolent AI to cruise by, take a look and decide that this planet needs help!!!

Quite a few SciFi novels run with this idea, that we create a central government based around an unbiased AI. One went even further, and had people "Download" themselves into the neural network of a super computer outside of the physical space and the combined personalities acted as a singular person. Made for an interesting dynamic, as there were still 'factions' internally.

 

[iBeng]

I won't say it is the answer, but there was a minor party (something like Senator OnLine) that suggested replacing the senate with an online mechanism for Australians to log on and vote for every bill passed by the house of reps, basically giving the public the vote on every senate vote.

Not sure if the people behind it are the new Flux party or not.

Given MyGov account have spread so quickly it does facilitate a mechanism for more public involvement in decision making processes.

That would be an interesting experiment to test out...It would be open to outside corruption of course (Hacking, organised bias voting, etc) and eventually people would possibly get bored of remembering to vote on things...But then again, people sit down at watch things like Gogglebox so...

 

[This Is Anfield]

Quite a few SciFi novels run with this idea, that we create a central government based around an unbiased AI. One went even further, and had people "Download" themselves into the neural network of a super computer outside of the physical space and the combined personalities acted as a singular person. Made for an interesting dynamic, as there were still 'factions' internally.

 

[iBeng]

View attachment 803398

Ill add that to my reading list The Commonwealth Saga was the series I was thinking of, they developed a government called ANA.

 

[This Is Anfield]

Ill add that to my reading list The Commonwealth Saga was the series I was thinking of, they developed a government called ANA.

And how are you, Watkins?
Hope the family is well, any additions?

 

[owen87]

That would be an interesting experiment to test out...It would be open to outside corruption of course (Hacking, organised bias voting, etc) and eventually people would possibly get bored of remembering to vote on things...But then again, people sit down at watch things like Gogglebox so...

Voting in Switzerland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We'd basically have a list of various policy propositions that we could vote on at a point (or points) each year, that the government would then enact.

Not the worst idea, given the relative self-investment of politicians in just keeping themselves elected means every action they take is very short term biased.

 

[Caesar]

I won't say it is the answer, but there was a minor party (something like Senator OnLine) that suggested replacing the senate with an online mechanism for Australians to log on and vote for every bill passed by the house of reps, basically giving the public the vote on every senate vote.

Sounds more like Senator MobRule.

Even diligent and well-intentioned citizens don't have sufficient time and resources to adequately study every bit of complex legislation put through the Parliament. That's why we pay representatives a full-time salary and give them an office full of staffers.

I'd rather we didn't turn the House of Review into Australian Idol.

 

[iBeng]

And how are you, Watkins?
Hope the family is well, any additions?

Good, no more additions, one is too many!

 

[Seeds]

I was thinking this last night after the responses of the current Australian government to the current bush fire crisis, as well as their perceived or legitimate contributions to its intensity.

Its fairly evident in current society that being in Government is a career choice more than a choice to help society both survive and flourish. You regularly see politicians doing everything they can to improve their image and position to secure their personal future. Deals are made, hands are shaken and the money makes the world go round, as they say. But they also say that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, which is evident in politics/governments around the world.

Are we, as humans, too hungry for power and control to safely govern ourselves without eventual corruption? And do the few that go through the system with actual desire to help society improve fail in their efforts because of this? And then are labeled as failures by the very ones that restrict their efforts, to guile the general population to continue their acceptance of what is legitimate corruption?

Ive been on this planet for 31 years now, and its only in the last 3 or so that Ive taken more interest in the workings of political and governmental systems and...its honestly disheartening and concerning what the system actually does and produces.

And the answer isnt socialism, or communism or any of the systems we currently have or have tried. All of those lead to some form of corruption, which shows we are incapable of governing our fellow humans without using that power to our advantage.

So what is the answer? Some sort of created, AI like governance? True Freedom, where everyone just does their own thing? Continued reliance on a system that produces power and money hungry rulers?

Make lobbying illegal. Tax payers fund elections for all established parties. Only new players can be privately funded.

Fixed term limits to prevent career politicians.

A more radical solution is to have the house of reps to be chosen by lottery with fixed short terms (say 2-4 years) rather then votes. Still have a voted upon senate with leaders coming from the senate.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

The number one issue with our democracy is the corporate media.

This thread a broken record... Like most.

 

[Seeds]

The number one issue with our democracy is the corporate media.

This thread a broken record... Like most.

Omg no it isnt. The number one issue is corporate lobbying.

 

[Dandy_GO]

Voting in Switzerland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We'd basically have a list of various policy propositions that we could vote on at a point (or points) each year, that the government would then enact.

Not the worst idea, given the relative self-investment of politicians in just keeping themselves elected means every action they take is very short term biased.