Preview Grading our list

[Cousin of Daicos]

can you explain the turn around in skills since 2017? Its one of the biggest turnarounds by a team in a specific area I can recall. I'll never forget sitting at Etihad in 2017 and watching them miss every single 15 metre kick by a mile vs the saints. Sure a lot of it has to do with players presenting better to the ball carrier but there has been a pretty clear but time improvement in hitting targets

2 things:

1) Got their heads right. A lot of football is between the ears

2) They modified their off-season training. Went from being all about endurance endurance, running running etc etc to FAR more actual football work. Reports are basically all training was being done with a football in hand and players were encouraged to have a football with them everywhere. Much more match sim earlier in the pre-season too.

Basically....a focus more on football and less on fitness/running

 

[Scodog10]

can you explain the turn around in skills since 2017? Its one of the biggest turnarounds by a team in a specific area I can recall. I'll never forget sitting at Etihad in 2017 and watching them miss every single 15 metre kick by a mile vs the saints. Sure a lot of it has to do with players presenting better to the ball carrier but there has been a pretty clear but time improvement in hitting targets

I don’t believe there’s one single answer to it, but if there was AD’s post is as close as you’ll get.

I would add that cohesion has played a part and it’s two fold. From 13-17 we didn’t know what our best 22 looked like so guys played like one mistake could cost them their spot. This year we’ve had only two guys omitted and we’re stronger as a result (despite the calls for JT to go out weekly). We also had a bad run of injuries. With those two areas corrected we have a core group of 15-20 guys that have played significant time together so they’re on the same page.

Like talent you don’t just suddenly acquire more skill they always had it in them it was just a matter of massaging it out. MM was a master at it and Buckley took 6 seasons at the helm to bring it to the surface. It’s an entirely superfluous question, but I can’t help pondering what if he’d figured it out after 4 seasons or we got someone in who could have got us there earlier?..

 

[Carringbush2010]

It’s an entirely superfluous question, but I can’t help pondering what if he’d figured it out after 4 seasons or we got someone in who could have got us there earlier?..

Yep this, if we all recall back in 2014 the media by and large lauded the future prospects of our young list and rightly so as it has been proven. You're very correct in questioning the time line and could have contention come earlier if the elusive proper development was in place.

Nathan alluded to admitting his time in 16 - 17 looking back in hindsight he saw failings in his approach. During that time while everyone was blaming the game plan and rightly so they were also bagging the list. I disagreed, I had faith in the list and banged about the abysmal development as the major issue - in part due to Nathan's inflexibility and the club's wishful and desperate faith in him to turn it around.

In hindsight though the well was almost dry as far as a coach replacement, I suggested Ratten on this board but I reckon we wouldn't be where we are now even though that is speculation.

For mine 12 - 14 was a missed opportunity and if the club handled it correctly we may well have number 16 in the cabinet. Years 15 - 17 was a regeneration of sorts even though the club did not mention so publicly. Fortunately right now we are heavily in contention but unlike we fail to do so often we need to take advantage of it.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Just looking at the list, knowing a few are among nest their last years here’s some young prospects you would think might well be the core group say in five years.

Stephenson, De Goey, Grundy, Elliott, Treloar, Langdon, Scharenberg, Brown C, Phillips, Crisp, Kelly, Murphy, Moore, Hoskin-Elliott, Brown T, Quaynor, Sier, Maynard, Wilson.

 

[THATSGOLD]

A+: (Best of the best)
Brodie Grundy
Jordan De Goey
Adam Treloar

A:(Elite)
Scott Pendlebury
Steele Sidebottom
Dayne Beams (I know his form has been a bit down)
Jack Crisp
Jamie Elliott

B+:(Above Average)
Tom Langdon
Taylor Adams
Jeremy Howe
Jaidyn Stephenson
Brayden Maynard
Darcy Moore
Will Hoskin-Elliott

B:(Average AFL player)
Brody Mihocek
Mason Cox
Brayden Sier
Lynden Dunn
Chris Mayne
Josh Thomas
Daniel Wells
Tom Phillips

C+:(Below average)
Travis Varcoe
Levi Greenwood
Matthew Scharenberg
Callum Brown
James Aish
Ben Reid
Jordan Roughead
Tyson Goldsack
Flynn Appleby
Sam Murray

C: (Well below average)
Rupert Wills
Josh Daicos
Tim Broomhead
Nathan Murphy

D+: (Not AFL standard)
Ben Crocker
Jack Madgen

Unrated:
Isaac Quaynor
Max Lynch
Atu Bosenuvalagi
Tyler Brown
Will Kelly
Tom Wilson
Mark Keane
Anton Tohill

I just don’t rate Maynard that high. He’s important to the set up but I don’t think he’s anywhere near a B more a C now.

 

[nahnah]

I just don’t rate Maynard that high. He’s important to the set up but I don’t think he’s anywhere near a B more a C now.

You think he’s well below average for an AFL player?

 

[partypie]

They trained for football as opposed to endurance running.
Repeat efforts and kicking under duress/fatigue.

I think you can also add to that a freeing up of the game plan and not overloading players with minutae, leading to less indecision and more instinctive play.

We spent a long time trying to get a squad to conform with a very specific game plan, but from where I sit now we appear to be putting a lot more time into a game plan and structures which leverage the strengths of our players better.

Don't underestimate the more relaxed approach from the coaching group and the more open lines or communication between coaches / off field staff / players as well as amongst the players themselves either - it might only be a little thing but the stronger bonds and support networks within the team would also be making a big difference imo

 

[Finnishpie]

A+: (Best of the best)
Brodie Grundy
Jordan De Goey
Adam Treloar

A:(Elite)
Scott Pendlebury
Steele Sidebottom
Dayne Beams (I know his form has been a bit down)
Jack Crisp
Jamie Elliott

B+:(Above Average)
Tom Langdon
Taylor Adams
Jeremy Howe
Jaidyn Stephenson
Brayden Maynard
Darcy Moore
Will Hoskin-Elliott

B:(Average AFL player)
Brody Mihocek
Mason Cox
Brayden Sier
Lynden Dunn
Chris Mayne
Josh Thomas
Daniel Wells
Tom Phillips

C+:(Below average)
Travis Varcoe
Levi Greenwood
Matthew Scharenberg
Callum Brown
James Aish
Ben Reid
Jordan Roughead
Tyson Goldsack
Flynn Appleby
Sam Murray

C: (Well below average)
Rupert Wills
Josh Daicos
Tim Broomhead
Nathan Murphy

D+: (Not AFL standard)
Ben Crocker
Jack Madgen

Unrated:
Isaac Quaynor
Max Lynch
Atu Bosenuvalagi
Tyler Brown
Will Kelly
Tom Wilson
Mark Keane
Anton Tohill

Not a bad list. Would quibble about a few -- mostly because of injuries: Wells, Sharenberg, Broomhead, Reid --- I'd suggest they're all better than you have suggested, assuming full fitness, which is the debatable point.

 

[JohnChainz]

I just don’t rate Maynard that high. He’s important to the set up but I don’t think he’s anywhere near a B more a C now.

No way Maynard can be categorised as a below average AFL player

 

[legendstatus]

I find it difficult to grade players under A, B, C etc. The method I use is who would be an automatic walk up into other top teams best 22, then who would be considered by the rest of the teams.
nahnah you have done a pretty good job the only queries I would have based on how I assess would be Aish, Brown and Appleby as I think that Nth, Carlton, GCS for example would take them easily.

Every player is one good game away from D to C or C to B or B to A


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[sr36]

can you explain the turn around in skills since 2017? Its one of the biggest turnarounds by a team in a specific area I can recall. I'll never forget sitting at Etihad in 2017 and watching them miss every single 15 metre kick by a mile vs the saints. Sure a lot of it has to do with players presenting better to the ball carrier but there has been a pretty clear but time improvement in hitting targets

Basketball crossover is all the rage at the moment, so I'm going to give you my viewpoint with a basketball analogy. If a coach makes a huge deal about missed free throws being costly, players become nervous when standing on the free throw line. They then miss more free throws.

My take is that Bucks was all over them for their mistakes and he's since learnt to back off and accept that they're going to make mistakes.

 

[left at home]

I just don’t rate Maynard that high. He’s important to the set up but I don’t think he’s anywhere near a B more a C now.

Sorry but that’s weird, Maynard is definitely in the b category

 

[eaglesnutcase]

Watched you lot the other night and thought id throw my two bobs worth in for anybody that gives a rats..
[1] Grundy has gotten tougher at the body and esp his contested marking.He needed to!
[2] Never thought id say it but Pendelbury and Sidebottom have hardened up.they needed to.
[3] Beams gives you a neater edge around the contest.He doesnt waste his kicks.Which begs the question; can you afford Treloar AND Adams in the same team? Both excellent players and id take either,but they butcher the ball.You can afford one of that type of player,but two??
[4] Moore is an absolute gun! When you guys hit a flat spot id throw him into the mids or forward.In the GF you were trending down and didnt have a player like him to throw around.It was a master stroke to throw him back but it would be the same to throw him into the mix when you need a spark.
[5] Thanks for kicking Ports arse!! Hate 'em

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Watched you lot the other night and thought id throw my two bobs worth in for anybody that gives a rats..
[1] Grundy has gotten tougher at the body and esp his contested marking.He needed to!
[2] Never thought id say it but Pendelbury and Sidebottom have hardened up.they needed to.
[3] Beams gives you a neater edge around the contest.He doesnt waste his kicks.Which begs the question; can you afford Treloar AND Adams in the same team? Both excellent players and id take either,but they butcher the ball.You can afford one of that type of player,but two??
[4] Moore is an absolute gun! When you guys hit a flat spot id throw him into the mids or forward.In the GF you were trending down and didnt have a player like him to throw around.It was a master stroke to throw him back but it would be the same to throw him into the mix when you need a spark.
[5] Thanks for kicking Ports arse!! Hate 'em

Thanks for the gratuitous advice.

 

[THATSGOLD]

You think he’s well below average for an AFL player?

I don’t think he does enough. He doesn’t give us much drive from half back when we have the ball. No where near as good as crisp or like what Ben Johnson was. He could do both defend and kick goals.

 

[sr36]

You think he’s well below average for an AFL player?

Have our grades been super sized. Is a C no longer average?

 

[THATSGOLD]

No one is an A anymore. Most are D.

 

[jackcass]

Yep this, if we all recall back in 2014 the media by and large lauded the future prospects of our young list and rightly so as it has been proven. You're very correct in questioning the time line and could have contention come earlier if the elusive proper development was in place.

Nathan alluded to admitting his time in 16 - 17 looking back in hindsight he saw failings in his approach. During that time while everyone was blaming the game plan and rightly so they were also bagging the list. I disagreed, I had faith in the list and banged about the abysmal development as the major issue - in part due to Nathan's inflexibility and the club's wishful and desperate faith in him to turn it around.

In hindsight though the well was almost dry as far as a coach replacement, I suggested Ratten on this board but I reckon we wouldn't be where we are now even though that is speculation.

For mine 12 - 14 was a missed opportunity and if the club handled it correctly we may well have number 16 in the cabinet. Years 15 - 17 was a regeneration of sorts even though the club did not mention so publicly. Fortunately right now we are heavily in contention but unlike we fail to do so often we need to take advantage of it.

I'm yet to see 1 journalist or poster make a case for better outcomes in 2012-14. In fact, every bit of analysis I've read shows that we likely over achieved, especially when the season ending injuries occured.

*sits and waits for the same tired old "youngest GF side" fallback motherhood statement*

 

[Carringbush2010]

I'm yet to see 1 journalist or poster make a case for better outcomes in 2012-14. In fact, every bit of analysis I've read shows that we likely over achieved, especially when the season ending injuries occured.

*sits and waits for the same tired old "youngest GF side" fallback motherhood statement*

I guess you took no note of the media around 2011 - 2014 then.

 

[Thatsmyname]

4th most talented top 22 according to Champion data

Good luck ever getting that 22 on the ground, jeez what would that look like?


Backs:
Langdon Dunn Roughead
Maynard Howe Crisp

Mids:
Grundy Pendlebury Adams
Beams Sidebottom Treloar

Forwards:
Mihocek Stevo Wells
De Goey Moore Elliott

Int:
WHE Phillips Mayne Aish/Sier

 

[THATSGOLD]

Best midfield of all time?

 

[THATSGOLD]

4th most talented top 22 according to Champion data

Good luck ever getting that 22 on the ground, jeez what would that look like?


Backs:
Langdon Dunn Roughead
Maynard Howe Crisp

Mids:
Grundy Pendlebury Adams
Beams Sidebottom Treloar

Forwards:
Mihocek Stevo Wells
De Goey Moore Elliott

Int:
WHE Phillips Mayne Aish/Sier

3 of those defenders played on the weekend
4 of those mids
4 of those forwards
And the whole bench, yet we look like a bottom 4 side. Just saying.

 

[Thatsmyname]

3 of those defenders played on the weekend
4 of those mids
4 of those forwards
And the whole bench, yet we look like a bottom 4 side. Just saying.

Well 3 of those defenders is just a nice way of saying half your defence has been decimated, anyway not the point, if you could get that 18 on the park... phew

just sayin

 

[Kappa]

Well 3 of those defenders is just a nice way of saying half your defence has been decimated, anyway not the point, if you could get that 18 on the park... phew

just sayin

Just saying.

No agenda here because i'm just saying, just saying.

 

[jackcass]

I guess you took no note of the media around 2011 - 2014 then.

Ah right, so we should go on the effusive predictions of a few media hacks rather than analyse what actually transpired. Good luck with that.