List Mgmt. Graeme Wrights Recruiting (Analysing HFC recruiting from 2011-present)

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rogiebear93

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Ridiculous to suggest that drafting Garlett was a silly risk. Anyone who saw him play as a kid knew that the risk had a huge reward attached to it if a club could get him right, and given we had just won a premiership and he was a massive Hawthorn supporter, we were best placed to take that punt. If Garlett stuck it out as an AFL player we would have won 4 in a row.

There are a few picks in there that we took due to missing out on first choice options we felt were similar players; we liked Impey, but he was taken before we got there so we picked Hartung. We liked Gresham, but he was gone so we picked Lovell.

I'd say we're doing a hell of a lot better than the league average when you weigh it against the picks we've had.
 

Pessimistic

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Rough summary of 2014. Was a weak draft year and we could have done far worse than Daniel Howe at pick 31.
Carlton Saints were in self confessed rebuild and GWS were still building. That article rates their draft trade as worse than ours.

And Yes I've already posted this in a certain main board thread
 

Mitchell54

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A promotion he was given to stop him from leaving, for all intents and purposes he still has the biggest hand in everything.
He voice when it comes to drafting is smaller than McKenzie. If you watch any interviews when a journo acts about the draft he nearly always suggests that McKenzie would know more about that.
 

Hawkas1988

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Ridiculous to suggest that drafting Garlett was a silly risk. Anyone who saw him play as a kid knew that the risk had a huge reward attached to it if a club could get him right, and given we had just won a premiership and he was a massive Hawthorn supporter, we were best placed to take that punt. If Garlett stuck it out as an AFL player we would have won 4 in a row.

There are a few picks in there that we took due to missing out on first choice options we felt were similar players; we liked Impey, but he was taken before we got there so we picked Hartung. We liked Gresham, but he was gone so we picked Lovell.

I'd say we're doing a hell of a lot better than the league average when you weigh it against the picks we've had.
I can see this is in response to my comment. I said it was a silly risk in HINDSIGHT. I was fine and totally fine with us wanting to grab him at the time, as has been said we had the leaders and success to take that risk. I actually like us taking risks on talent, look how good Richmond have done out of it. All i was saying was in hindsight it was a silly one, he had a drug addiction and was too far gone down a bad path to correct his behaviour unfortunately.
 

essaynode

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this article inspired me to look into our recruiting in recent years and what better time to recap than the period where Graeme Wright took over as head of recruiting and at some point list manager, now we all praise GW for his trading ability which he is generally good at willing to trade away more to guarantee the player we want, we also have been appreciative of his late draft pick ups of recent times including Sicily and Lewis, but also have been disappointed with other draft decisions as well, so here is our trading, drafting, recruiting of cat b's and drafting of rookies and upgrading rookies, basically most things to do with our list in general.

it all started back in 2011

Trades In
: Gunston, Boumann Trades Out: Sierakowski, Renouf, Lisle
Draft: Pick 33 B.Hill, Pick 38 J.Kelly, Pick 53 A.Woodward
promoted rookie - L.Breust
Rookie Draft: Pick 16 B.McCauley, Pick 34 A.Frank, Pick 52 A.Boseley, Pick 69 A. Pattinson

not a bad start, trading for Gunston a young medium forw who became a champion during the premiership years for us, also picking up B.Hill who had a good few years and 3 premierships before leaving to Fremantle and the upgrading of Breust another champion forward for us, i would say this was a good year for GW and his team overall.

2012

Trades In:
Lake, Simpkin, Spangher, Anderson Trades Out: Gilham
Draft: Pick 28 T.O'Brien, Pick 66 K.Brand, Pick 70 redrafted M.Osborne
Rookie Draft: Pick 15 J.Ceglar, Pick 28 C.Kilkenny

here we have Lake being overweight at the Bulldogs and finally we get a chance at getting our man we have been trying for ages to trade for and boy did he deliver once we traded him in, we also got really lucky with Ceglar being such a good 2nd ruck for us over the years, the rest were part players and some misses, another good year overall in the scheme of things

2013

Trades In:
McEvoy Trades Out: Savage
Draft: Pick 24 B.Hartung, Pick 38 D.Garlett, Pick 56 J.Sicily
promoted rookie - J.Ceglar, W.Langford
Rookie Draft: Pick 17 D.Willsmore, Pick 33 D.Wanganeen, Pick 48 Z.Webster, Pick 57 B.Ross (Cat B - K.Heatherley + S.Tatupu)

St Kilda gifted us McEvoy, cheers saints, we'll take a quality ruck from you guys, cost us a decent prospect in Savage, but 100% worth, would do again, the draft was nearly a waste until Sicily got picked up, Ceglar getting promoted onto the list.

2014

Trades In:
O'Rourke, (Frawley FA) Trades Out: Hallahan, Cheney, Lowden
Draft: Pick 31 D.Howe, Pick 49 T.Miles, Pick 50 M.Pittonet
promoted rookie - D.Willsmore, Z.Webster
Rookie Draft: Pick 18 J.Hardisty, Pick 36 J.Miller-Lewis, Pick 53 L.Langford, Pick 65 S.Grimley

other than Frawley as a FA, what a disaster of a year, again nothing in the draft or rookie draft

2015

Trades In:
J.Fitzpatrick Trades Out: Suckling, Anderson
Draft: Pick 19 R.Burton, Pick 22 K.Lovell, Pick 44 B.Hardwick
promoted rookie - K.Heatherley
Rookie Draft: Pick 18 L.Surman, Pick 36 K.Stewart, Pick 52 redrafted A.Woodward, (Cat B - C.Glass)

bad trades, but saved with 2 good youngsters in the draft, if not for Hardwick this would be another mess of a trade/draft period

2016

Trades In:
T.Mitchell, JOM, Vickey FA, Henderson DFA Trades Out: B.Hill, S.Mitchell, J.Lewis
Draft: Pick 74 H.Morrison, Pick 77 M.Lewis
promoted rookie - K.Stewart
Rookie Draft: Pick 14 O.Hanrahan, Pick 31 redrafted J.Fitzpatrick, Pick 46 J.Cousins (Cat B - C.Nash)

this was the big transition year, where a bunch of our leaders got to the end of their careers and we needed to replace them, we got lucky with Tom Mitchell, Henderson and Lewis, we paid a price for JOM and he'll be a decent investment i hope, we traded out of the draft to fill needs.

2017

Trades In:
J.Impey Trades Out: L.Hodge
Draft: Pick 45 J.Worpel, Pick 67 D.Moore, Pick 71 J.Ross
Rookie Draft: Pick 7 H.Jones, Pick 23 D.Mirra, Pick 34 redraftd D.Willsmore (Cat B - C.Jiath)

i think this is one of the better all round performances from our recruiting department, trade in Impey, pick up a champion in mid-draft and a couple of other exciting prospects.

2018

Trades In:
Wingard, Scrimshaw, Scully, Minchington DFA Trades Out: Duryea
Draft: Pick 52 J.Koschitzke, Pick 63 M.Walker
promoted rookie - C.Glass, J.Cousins, D.Mirra
Rookie Draft: Pick 14 D.Greaves, Pick 30 W.Golds, Pick 43 T.Mohr, Pick 49 redrafted W.Langford (contract reasons)

this was a very exciting draft and we decided to go after Wingard instead which might work out in our favour as he is a champion, but missing out on the top end talent of this draft is unfortunate imo, Scrimshaw i was worried about after the O'Rourke situation burned us, but he looks a good player and both Kosi and Walker look likely to play AFL sooner than later.


Like i have said previously, i think GW is a good negotiator when trading, not that he gets the best price or deal, but that he gets the trades done and finalised, i think our clubs drafting could be a lot better, we have done well late a few times with some serious talent, but i would like more consistency at the draft and more rookies stepping up, it seems the vast majority of promoted rookies go nowhere which is a concern because staff see them more often and would have a better read on their talent, meaning these mistakes are from staff and recruiters because of the lack of talent coming in from the rookie draft in recent years.

our top 35 picks in this period is B.Hill@33, T.O'Brien@28, B.Hartung@24, D.Howe@31, R.Burton@19, K.Lovell@22, B.Hill and R.Burton are the only good players out of 6 high picks, thats a concern, then theres the D.Garlett mistake @38 and J.Kelly@38 also in the top 40, im hoping our recruiters do a better job at this draft with our early picks...
This is a great analysis.

What it tells me is that assessment of junior footballers is a complex task, and the recruitment of them can be a bit of a lottery because there are so many different factors that contribute to their development. (I'm just thinking - would Worpell have made the same strides he did in 2019 if Sam Mitchell hadn't returned to Hawthorn to teach him?)

Also the assessment of older footballers might be less complex (you have more data - you've seen them play against other more mature bodies, they've had more time in the system for their own bodies to mature, you've seen how they adapt to the more professional environment, etc...)

This is why (I think) the recruiting department will so readily trade picks away. There is no guarantee that a recruit will turn out to be a 150+ game player, even less so a 200 or 300 game player. But if they've already played 50-100 games at another club, that in itself tells you something about them.

(Another analogy is the thoroughbred racing industry - sometimes the best looking horses who come from the best bloodlines are really crap racehorses. The ones that sell for a bargain then go and become group 1 winners are the ones we seem to be good at finding (i.e. Bruest, Sicily, Worpell, Hill, etc...). If you could predict from the yearling sales which horses were going to be champions, you'd be jetting to your own tropical island on your private jet and not be reading bigfooty.)
 

TAITA

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It's unfair to try and make an assessment on recruiting without taking into consideration player development, fitness and conditioning, mental strength and opportunity.

When we pick a player we know the tools they possess (ie; speed, skills, etc.) but it's what happens after they arrive at the club that makes them a player.
 

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Noel Gallagher

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I was red hot on on Maynard and was devestated when Collingwood took him at 30. Comparing him with Howe they were pretty much neck and neck for the first 3-4 years until last year where Maynard stepped up to the next level whilst Dan has kind of plateaued off.

Was really pissed when we took Hartung, yes the agility was a worry but I was more concerned with him looking over his shoulder even as a junior. Was hoping we would take Merrett. No issue with taking Gartlett, kid had some serious weapons but unfortunately his demons got the better of him. Again was really pissed that we didn’t take a chance on Sydney Stack last year. Instead we rookied an injury riddled minchington?
 

roosforever

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The OP, look your analysis as taken in isolation is OK but without allowing for context of decisions makes it pretty much no guide at all.

Example - Trading Josh Kennedy was a bad move, but when a player is so far back in the depth chart ahead of club stars it becomes not such a bad decision, for certain types of players there just are limited spots.

We took advantage of this with Tom Mitchell and now Sam Frost

To look at the value of recruiting and trading it is much more about the sum of the parts, not each part in isolation.
 

derp de derp

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In regards to the OP

2015. Wasn’t Suckling a FA and Burton selected with the pick we traded for Anderson?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Gralin

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It's the left field picks when highly rated talent is still available, like when we picked Lovell, that frustrate me the most.
It's the reverse Sicily. They see something in a player that doesn't always pan out.

We tend to remember our misses and not others unless it's a Tambling v Franklin type miss and still Tambling not at Richmond could have been something.

Our recruiters are human and make mistakes the same as everyone else, sometimes in judging a players work ethic and ability to be coached, sometimes their ceiling, sometimes their place in the game as it evolves.

We didn't miss on Lovell then maybe we don't have Worpel now.
 

Collins-Langford-Ayres

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It's the reverse Sicily. They see something in a player that doesn't always pan out.

We tend to remember our misses and not others unless it's a Tambling v Franklin type miss and still Tambling not at Richmond could have been something.

Our recruiters are human and make mistakes the same as everyone else, sometimes in judging a players work ethic and ability to be coached, sometimes their ceiling, sometimes their place in the game as it evolves.

We didn't miss on Lovell then maybe we don't have Worpel now.
I get it, but when you pick someone so left field at a pick, I expect you know something others don't know, or you are desperate for a certain player in a certain position, and that is pulling them ahead in the draft than they would otherwise be selected, typically something like a 'project' KPP or small forward.

I know Chopper was a ball magnet for Tassie, but he was a shy country kid when he was recruited, and not sure he had an elite work ethic, so fascinated to know from the experts, what we saw in him that pulled him forward to a pick in the early 20s.
 

Gralin

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I get it, but when you pick someone so left field at a pick, I expect you know something others don't know, or you are desperate for a certain player in a certain position, and that is pulling them ahead in the draft than they would otherwise be selected, typically something like a 'project' KPP or small forward.

I know Chopper was a ball magnet for Tassie, but he was a shy country kid when he was recruited, and not sure he had an elite work ethic, so fascinated to know from the experts, what we saw in him that pulled him forward to a pick in the early 20s.
I meant more i wouldn't dwell on it.
It was a bad pick that didn't work. Wasn't the first and won't be the last.
I pay fu** all attention to phantom drafts and ratings, so often it's completely wrong.

There are so many safe bets that fail and nobody blames the clubs for those. Safe bets tend to mean agreeing with everyone else/getting caught up in the hype.
 

Larry Barnsworth

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I always felt sorry for Richie Tambling. His biggest problem was being not Buddy Franklin. Most other draft years, he doesn't get that kicking.

I thought it was pretty much consensus that Tambling was going early. I'm sure I read somewhere interviews with Hawthorn about that draft, where they would've picked Tambling ahead of Lewis, but weren't expecting him to be available.

Thorp is the one for me. Far bigger miss than Tambling IMHO.
 

Alite

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Recruiting is hit and miss.

The only question that matters is whether Graeme Wright and his Team have hit more often than other recruiting teams. Think Carlton, StKilda, Fremantle, ...with all with early picks.

For mine... given the GCS and GWS AFL help... our current group of recruiters leads the pack.

It is good to question things but in my opinion we are solid with our recruiters.
 

Alite

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I always felt sorry for Richie Tambling. His biggest problem was being not Buddy Franklin. Most other draft years, he doesn't get that kicking.

I thought it was pretty much consensus that Tambling was going early. I'm sure I read somewhere interviews with Hawthorn about that draft, where they would've picked Tambling ahead of Lewis, but weren't expecting him to be available.

Thorp is the one for me. Far bigger miss than Tambling IMHO.
Dermott Brereton spoke about our taking Tambling. I think he was honest, just out of the loop.

Richard Tambling had speed, skills, but was not hard enough to be a mid. Too short to be a backpocket due to a lack of a leap, and no XFactor for the forward line. He really should have been a wingman... alas he was never played in that position.
 
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JoeHawk

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Another huge disappointment was Vikery. I believe he was drafted as a potential fill in for Roughy who was battling illness, but wow, how bad was he.
But full credit must go to GW because a good portion of those years we were top or near top finishers so left with slim pickings on big talent when it came to draft choices.
Having 3 peated we really can’t complain.
 

Spursfan

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Another huge disappointment was Vickery. I believe he was drafted as a potential fill in for Roughy who was battling illness, but wow, how bad was he.
But full credit must go to GW because a good portion of those years we were top or near top finishers so left with slim pickings on big talent when it came to draft choices.
Having 3 peated we really can’t complain.
I didn't have high expectations
 

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