List Mgmt. Graeme Wrights Recruiting (Analysing HFC recruiting from 2011-present)

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gohawks4

Senior List
Mar 9, 2007
155
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That's it, time to play the kids, I'll cringe if we don't bring in at least one or two this week. Season is done, we should be getting games into them, working out which ones are going to be part of the team going forwards and looking to get the best draft pick we possibly can!
 

SA HAWK

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 13, 2006
12,831
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We should be what the Swans were yesterday. They had nine players under 21. The season is cooked, shock horror, and we are wasting the year if we don't simply play youth, no matter how good you think they are, let's find out.

We played a ******* 30 year old journeyman yesterday! How on earth can anything highlight more your list management strategy is awful if you're bottom five, playing a 30 year trier for his 15th games across three clubs?

Minchington looks like a mini Stewie Dew, with one tenth the ability, and he is getting a game. Whilst Moore watches on as an emergency. Ross doesn't even seem close.

Watching Pitto this year, touch up Goldy yesterday, is yet another example of the total balls up our list management strategy has been from 2016 onwards.

And lastly, Clarko is constantly placing more pressure on us as a club by his swipes at the game, umpires and opposition players this year. Blrg.
Both clubs were in a similar position at the end of 2018.

Both made the 8 and went out without a win.

Sydney rightfully realized the group they had wouldn't win a flag and went hard with a rebuild.

We overrated our list and continued to top up for a flag we obviously aren't going to win.
 

Pessimistic

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Both clubs were in a similar position at the end of 2018.

Both made the 8 and went out without a win.

Sydney rightfully realized the group they had wouldn't win a flag and went hard with a rebuild.

We overrated our list and continued to top up for a flag we obviously aren't going to win.
They offloaded with salary cap issues, and have significant recruiting advantages.
Up till now sydney hve been the champions of never bottoming out
 
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Walshawk

Club Legend
Mar 24, 2017
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The big hole in our age demographic is 22 - 25 year olds. We have six, and only three regulars. Other teams have at least 10, and Brisbane 14. If we don’t get some elite young talent in soon, a massive cliff is awaiting in three or four years once all the over 30s plus Gunston and Bruest are gone, and JOM, Mitchell, Wingard, etc are all over 30.
 

Hot Diggity

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Jun 19, 2020
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Hmmm

Cahill went at pick 56 - 2019 draft.
We had pick 57 and took Josh Morris.
I’ll now be forever comparing the careers of Cahill and Morris.

I hope Morris is a star and Cahill a dismal failure.
Or better still, Essendon cuts both Cahill and Mosquito, we then pick them both up and they become multi premiership players In the brown and gold.
And Essendon go for doping again, and Sheedy is the architect of it all, and Allan Jeans rises from the grave to arrest him and gets him sent down forever.
 

The Chad and I

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Nov 13, 2018
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The big hole in our age demographic is 22 - 25 year olds. We have six, and only three regulars. Other teams have at least 10, and Brisbane 14. If we don’t get some elite young talent in soon, a massive cliff is awaiting in three or four years once all the over 30s plus Gunston and Bruest are gone, and JOM, Mitchell, Wingard, etc are all over 30.
I expect us to recruit a few from other clubs this trade period.
Cedric Cox is one I still hope to get to the club. He'd slot in nicely at hbf/hff.
Instant best 22 imo.

Don't fret too much about the cliff in 4 years time.
There will always be a cliff in 4 years time, for every club.

...and we will have 4 draft and trade periods to plan for that.
Maybe even a quality free agent or two if we are lucky.
 

Judd2Sewell

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Aug 31, 2008
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If the rumours are true and we have you reduce list sizes to 40 (inclusive of rookies) then it will be hard to balance whilst bringing in 3 draftees and FA/trades.

The list moving forward could be:

Defenders:
KPD - Frost (27)
KPD - Hartley (27)
HBF - Sicily (26)
HBF - Scrimshaw (21)
BP - Impey (25)
BP - Hardwick (24)

KPD - Kosi (20)
HBF - CJ (21)
HBF - Greaves (21)
BP - Morrison (22)
BP - Pepper (20)

Midfield:
Foll. - Shiels (30)
Foll. - Mitchell (27)
Foll. - JOM (27)
Foll. - Worpel (22)
Foll. - Maginness (20)
Foll. - Jones (22)

Wing - Smith (32)
Wing - Day (19)
Wing - Downie (18)

Ruck - Big Boy (31)
Ruck - Ceglar (30)
Ruck - Reeves (22)

Forwards:
KPF - Patton (27)
KPF - Lewis (22)
HFF - Gunston (29)
HFF - Wingard (27)
FP - Breust (30)

KPF - Jeka (19)
HFF - Moore (21)
HFF - Hanrahan (22)
FP - Walker (21)
FP - Morris (19)

That's 33 players, including Downie. We will draft two more players alongside Downie, which would bring the list up to 35.

If we sign any FA's or make any trades then the list number would go up again. If no trades or FA's are landed then we'd have five spots left to choose from our fringe/older players:

Question marks:
KPD - Frawley (32)
BP - Stratton (32)
BP - Glass (23)
Foll. - Howe (25)
Wing - Scully (30)
HFF - TOB (27)
HFF - Ross (21)
FP - Nash (22)

I hope we look at Nankervis and Williams as FA's. Though it's highly unlikely we could trade Ceglar given he just signed that contract, and if list sizes are to be reduced then teams would be less likely to trade for fringe players like Cousins, Morrison, TOB, Ceglar, etc.

If Big Boy decides to retire then Nankervis is a must.

Our forward line is a worry, especially if we move Wingard into the middle in order to inject some much needed class, dynamism and depth there. So Williams would be a huge get, as we could run him through he middle too (for the class) and move Impey up the ground, which would help cover for Wingard. But both are highly unlikely though at this point in time. Maybe Greaves or CJ can come in and release Impey if we can't land Williams?

IMO this is even more of a reason for us to give some of these youngsters a run. We are going to have to make some hard decisions at the end of the year, and with no VFL it just makes it that much harder to assess where they're at.
 
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Come back Cyril

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Jul 17, 2020
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If the rumours are true and we have you reduce list sizes to 40 (inclusive of rookies) then it will be hard to balance whilst bringing in 3 draftees and FA/trades.

The list moving forward could be:

Defenders:
KPD - Frost (27)
KPD - Hartley (27)
HBF - Sicily (26)
HBF - Scrimshaw (21)
BP - Impey (25)
BP - Hardwick (24)

KPD - Kosi (20)
HBF - CJ (21)
HBF - Greaves (21)
BP - Morrison (22)
BP - Pepper (20)

Midfield:
Foll. - Shiels (30)
Foll. - Mitchell (27)
Foll. - JOM (27)
Foll. - Worpel (22)
Foll. - Maginness (20)
Foll. - Jones (22)

Wing - Smith (32)
Wing - Day (19)
Wing - Downie (18)

Ruck - Big Boy (31)
Ruck - Ceglar (30)
Ruck - Reeves (22)

Forwards:
KPF - Patton (27)
KPF - Lewis (22)
HFF - Gunston (29)
HFF - Wingard (27)
FP - Breust (30)

KPF - Jeka (19)
HFF - Moore (21)
HFF - Hanrahan (22)
FP - Walker (21)
FP - Morris (19)

That's 33 players, including Downie. We will draft two more players alongside Downie, which would bring the list up to 35.

If we sign any FA's or make any trades then the list number would go up again. If no trades or FA's are landed then we'd have five spots left to choose from our fringe/older players:

Question marks:
KPD - Frawley (32)
BP - Stratton (32)
BP - Glass (23)
Foll. - Howe (25)
Wing - Scully (30)
HFF - TOB (27)
HFF - Ross (21)
FP - Nash (22)

I hope we look at Nankervis and Williams as FA's. Though it's highly unlikely we could trade Ceglar given he just signed that contract, and if list sizes are to be reduced then teams would be less likely to trade for fringe players like Cousins, Morrison, TOB, Ceglar, etc.

If Big Boy decides to retire then Nankervis is a must.

Our forward line is a worry, especially if we move Wingard into the middle in order to inject some much needed class, dynamism and depth there. So Williams would be a huge get, as we could run him through he middle too (for the class) and move Impey up the ground, which would help cover for Wingard. But both are highly unlikely though at this point in time. Maybe Greaves or CJ can come in and release Impey if we can't land Williams?

IMO this is even more of a reason for us to give some of these youngsters a run. We are going to have to make some hard decisions at the end of the year, and with no VFL it just makes it that much harder to assess where they're at.
Really helpful analysis, thx.

I completely agree re: giving some games to those on the cusp. At the moment, I have no idea whether Moore, Hanrahan, Nash, Glass, Ross, Greaves etc. have the potential to be future contributors, but feel that we need to know before the end of the year.

All of these guys have shown some ability, but the key is whether their skills and game sense can overcome a lack of elite physical skills (Moore, Hanrahan, Ross) or vice versa (Nash, Glass, arguably CJ). Given a number of players with potential will be squeezed out of much better lists, I'd like us to be confident in assessing whether our 3/4th year players can make it and I'm not sure the scratch matches will tell us anything (Moore and Hanrahan dominated the last game statistically, but nothing I saw in the highlight convinced me either of those players can overcome their lack of size, strength and elite speed/agility).
 

The Offerman

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Oct 8, 2016
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On Nash, I'd be turning him into a fullback to replace Frawley. Dont think he has the smarts as a forward and think his attributes as far a size and some speed and a simple job would give him the best chance for success. A good fit age wise too i reckon for a succession arrangement.
He was actually performing quite well in the backline prior to his move to the wing, prior to his move forward. If I had to guess why the transition has happened I would say it's got something to do with his lack of skills by foot.
 

rei154

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Jun 13, 2019
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Given we're about to do a bit of a list cull by the sounds of things, where do people see Will Golds in the club's future? He hasn't been able to get too much game time accross the board with the injury, but I remember in the JLT last year he was quite good. I know he get's meme'd a bit, but does anyone think he has a spot on our list moving forward?
 

VandoHawk

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Oct 2, 2014
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Given we're about to do a bit of a list cull by the sounds of things, where do people see Will Golds in the club's future? He hasn't been able to get too much game time accross the board with the injury, but I remember in the JLT last year he was quite good. I know he get's meme'd a bit, but does anyone think he has a spot on our list moving forward?
Unfortunately if the rumoured list cuts go forward I don't think he has a place. I really liked Golds, thought he was developing nicely, but he was a work in progress and a second ACL injury may have sealed his fate. I actually see us losing a few of these promising but ultimately project players if the cuts go through simply because something has to give.
 

Judd2Sewell

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Aug 31, 2008
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Given we're about to do a bit of a list cull by the sounds of things, where do people see Will Golds in the club's future? He hasn't been able to get too much game time accross the board with the injury, but I remember in the JLT last year he was quite good. I know he get's meme'd a bit, but does anyone think he has a spot on our list moving forward?
I imagine he will be delisted, which is unfortunate as he hasn't had a chance to prove himself.
 

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rei154

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Jun 13, 2019
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I imagine he will be delisted, which is unfortunate as he hasn't had a chance to prove himself.
Unfortunately if the rumoured list cuts go forward I don't think he has a place. I really liked Golds, thought he was developing nicely, but he was a work in progress and a second ACL injury may have sealed his fate. I actually see us losing a few of these promising but ultimately project players if the cuts go through simply because something has to give.
feelsbadman
Sadly I can see a few people getting this treatment purely due to the financial impact of covid.
would love for Ross to get a game too just so he has a chance to show his worth.
 

Judd2Sewell

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Aug 31, 2008
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We currently have 47 on our list.

If we are required to draft 3 players minumum then we will have to lose 10 in total - not including any FA or trades we may acquire.

There's a very high chance we use our first and second rounder, either at the draft or in trades, and bring in Downie via points accumulation. So I think we will at least be bringing in 3 new players over the off season.
 

Pessimistic

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Cutting lists is false economy for the code overall.

Those 'next tier' players jettisoned will go somewhere else (or another code) and before long the AFL will need to beef up that next level with resources (staff, fitness equipment) to keep these guys at the required professional level.

All the while the 'needed' resources were there at AFL clubs the whole time
 

LMGjr

Team Captain
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Jul 25, 2020
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For mine the first thing to look at is the next Spine coming through, because role players can be found easy enough and the elite mid is never that hard to find in reality, Buddy's are.

So, with that said and no VFL this year what do we have: it's obvious that I could just name players over 193cm who still have 6yrs in them but that's just naming them, the question is if the VFL had of been played this year would they be knocking on the door next year or the year after or now. That's where the team will be built around around from now on out surely?
 

Roger Rogerson

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 9, 2006
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We currently have 47 on our list.

If we are required to draft 3 players minumum then we will have to lose 10 in total - not including any FA or trades we may acquire.

There's a very high chance we use our first and second rounder, either at the draft or in trades, and bring in Downie via points accumulation. So I think we will at least be bringing in 3 new players over the off season.
sh*t didn't realise we were up at 47. Was thinking we were 42 meaning we had to chop at least 5 certainly not 10. Wow.
 

Judd2Sewell

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I don't think it matters whether rookies are around next year or not, if the list is 40 (rookies or otherwise) then we will still have to turn over 10 players.

Or am I missing something?
 

Gralin

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Apr 8, 2010
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I don't think it matters whether rookies are around next year or not, if the list is 40 (rookies or otherwise) then we will still have to turn over 10 players.

Or am I missing something?
We don't get to 47 without rookies.
Senior list is 38-40 players.
Rookie list can take you to 44
Cat B rookies can take you to 47
My comments were based on the are we up to 47 question
 

The Chad and I

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Both clubs were in a similar position at the end of 2018.

Both made the 8 and went out without a win.

Sydney rightfully realized the group they had wouldn't win a flag and went hard with a rebuild.

We overrated our list and continued to top up for a flag we obviously aren't going to win.
Since 2016 we recruited the following players who I'd rate in our best 22-25:
O'Meara
Mitchell
Wingard
Worpel
Scrimshaw
Frost
Impey
Day
Lewis

...and for peanuts:
Henderson
Patton
Scully


Not included, but talented IMO
Finn
Walker
Golds
Kosi
Morris
Jeka


Now put that up against Sydney's recruiting over the same period.
 

Noel Gallagher

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Oct 3, 2006
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Very interesting read... Unfortunately doesn't paint the club in a very positive light. With the 5 examples given, we appear to have made some very poor trading moves and list strategy decisions which have led us to having the second oldest list in the league sitting in the bottom four. The article isn't telling us anything we didn't know already. I would for one would like to hear the club or Clarko come out just be honest, no more blaming the COVID break, umpires, other coaches etc etc.

Quite simply we have over rated the list and the topping up has failed miserably. Accept responsibility and move on. You can't fight City Hall. We have enjoyed tremendous success over the past 4 decades which will last us a lifetime. I for one have no issue with enduring a little pain in next few years to ensure we put together a list that can realistically challenge at around mid 2025. All this talk about challenging for a flag for the reminder of Clarkson's tenure has been pure fantasy, enough already
 
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