List Mgmt. Graeme Wrights Recruiting (Analysing HFC recruiting from 2011-present)

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Judd2Sewell

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Very interesting read... Unfortunately doesn't paint the club in a very positive light. With the 5 examples given, we appear to have made some very poor trading moves and list strategy decisions which have led us to having the second oldest list in the league sitting in the bottom four. The article isn't telling us anything we didn't know already. I would for one would like to hear the club or Clarko come out just be honest, no more blaming the COVID break, umpires, other coaches etc etc.

Quite simply we have over rated the list and the topping up has failed miserably. Accept responsibility and move on. You can't fight City Hall. We have enjoyed tremendous success over the past 4 decades which will last us a lifetime. I for one have no issue with enduring a little pain in next few years to ensure we put together a list that can realistically challenge at around mid 2025. All this talk about challenging for a flag for the reminder of Clarkson's tenure has been pure fantasy, enough already
Agree. The worst thing for the club is that Clarko is seemingly too stubborn to admit it.

Continuing down this path will set us back significantly.

Bottom four, terrible game plan, terrible percentage and the second oldest list. Everything suggests we need a change.
 

LMGjr

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Agree. The worst thing for the club is that Clarko is seemingly too stubborn to admit it.

Continuing down this path will set us back significantly.

Bottom four, terrible game plan, terrible percentage and the second oldest list. Everything suggests we need a change.
Apply for the head coaching job mate, simply really, since you know best.
 

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Pessimistic

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And yet.....
onfield demographic end of 2019.....................and round 8 2020
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1596164719601.png

of course most of the players are 10 months older there was also a narrative that the swans had many more younger players than us - depends if you choose a criteria to suit your argument
 
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LMGjr

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You reckon we are a premiership chance?
Lets look at this.

Clarko is proven, what is currently underneath him after losing Ratts, Fagan, Rath, Russel.......the list goes on and on, are not, plain and simple.

But even forgetting this as a side issue, if you have no forwards who can take a game apart, in particular a big forward, preferably 2 then what can you do until you are "provided" with them?

icthmond would not have one last year if it wasn't for Lynch.

Where do we find them? It's called patients unfortunately.

But supporters need to remember that the HFC has always eventfully found them, before shooting from the hip, whether it's in time for Clarko or not is irrelevant, to the fact that this man is trying his best with what he has.

I am 110% positive that as soon as a big forward on our current list starts to cause major problems for the opposition all this Clarko yammering will go away and he'll be happier then anyone on here. He is not a stupid man or a useless leader of men.

Yes, as the coach the buck stops with him, but lets have some context about it.
 

Judd2Sewell

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Lets look at this.

Clarko is proven, what is currently underneath him after losing Ratts, Fagan, Rath, Russel.......the list goes on and on, are not, plain and simple.

But even forgetting this as a side issue, if you have no forwards who can take a game apart, in particular a big forward, preferably 2 then what can you do until you are "provided" with them?

icthmond would not have one last year if it wasn't for Lynch.

Where do we find them? It's called patients unfortunately.

But supporters need to remember that the HFC has always eventfully found them, before shooting from the hip, whether it's in time for Clarko or not is irrelevant, to the fact that this man is trying his best with what he has.

I am 110% positive that as soon as a big forward on our current list starts to cause major problems for the opposition all this Clarko yammering will go away and he'll be happier then anyone on here. He is not a stupid man or a useless leader of men.

Yes, as the coach the buck stops with him, but lets have some context about it.
I don't need a long winded political answer that spends 10 minutes dancing around the simple yes/no answer question.

Do you think we are a premiership chance? Yes or no.
 

The Offerman

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Lets look at this.

Clarko is proven, what is currently underneath him after losing Ratts, Fagan, Rath, Russel.......the list goes on and on, are not, plain and simple.

But even forgetting this as a side issue, if you have no forwards who can take a game apart, in particular a big forward, preferably 2 then what can you do until you are "provided" with them?

icthmond would not have one last year if it wasn't for Lynch.

Where do we find them? It's called patients unfortunately.

But supporters need to remember that the HFC has always eventfully found them, before shooting from the hip, whether it's in time for Clarko or not is irrelevant, to the fact that this man is trying his best with what he has.

I am 110% positive that as soon as a big forward on our current list starts to cause major problems for the opposition all this Clarko yammering will go away and he'll be happier then anyone on here. He is not a stupid man or a useless leader of men.

Yes, as the coach the buck stops with him, but lets have some context about it.
It's called what now?
 

Judd2Sewell

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The pies are black and white mate, since that's all you want, jog on.
It's a straight forward question with a simple answer. Surely you can manage that?

I'll take it as a no, but you just can't bring yourself to type the word.
 

LMGjr

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It's a straight forward question with a simple answer. Surely you can manage that?

I'll take it as a no, but you just can't bring yourself to type the word.
I expect no from you. You've made damn sure everyone knows that.

Enjoy your celebration of being right if we "fail"
 

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Gralin

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I don't need a long winded political answer that spends 10 minutes dancing around the simple yes/no answer question.

Do you think we are a premiership chance? Yes or no.
yes that's what we need no discussion just yes or no

why would we have any interest in understanding why people have the view they do?
 

HODGEYROAD

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With our age demographic you pretty much need to be a top 4 team, I can't believe how many people aren't willing to admit that.
 

LMGjr

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With our age demographic you pretty much need to be a top 4 team, I can't believe how many people aren't willing to admit that.
With the way the draft works, and FA, and RFA and well everything else I fail to see why so many supporters, maybe it's from reading the media or giving the media something to run with, that you can't delist 25 players and expect to pick up the same quality (person as well as player) at pick 5550002164.356

People make this far more complicated then it actually is.

Did you see COVID coming when we did the draft and trading?

If not adjust your thinking with some context to how this has affected the decisions made at the time V what is happening now, or join the media and write sensational sh*t.

How about celebrating the fact the old dudes were willing to work for the next gen knowing (at the time) that the vfl would have put REAL pressure on them. Of course COVID has wrecked this option, so lets do a sadie and start blaming. Geez effing christ.

Context is needed instead of blame and sooking.
 

Judd2Sewell

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yes that's what we need no discussion just yes or no

why would we have any interest in understanding why people have the view they do?
I understand the context of where we are at, and that context can be used to form the answer to the question. But no answer was given, and I didn't ask him for that anyway. If he is going to use those excuses and reasons then he may as well just answer the question to begin with.

I didn't ask him whether he thinks we should back Clarko in the future, etc, either. It was just a simple question regarding this season - one he wasn't able to answer.

FWIW I agree that losing the key people we have will take an obvious toll. But again, that wasn't what I was asking.
 

Gralin

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I understand the context of where we are at, and that context can be used to form the answer to the question. But no answer was given, and I didn't ask him for that anyway. If he is going to use those excuses and reasons then he may as well just answer the question to begin with.

I didn't ask him whether he thinks we should back Clarko in the future, etc, either. It was just a simple question regarding this season - one he wasn't able to answer.

FWIW I agree that losing the key people we have will take an obvious toll. But again, that wasn't what I was asking.
Yes but there is this need to act like everything is simple and black and white on here with our current situation but it's not. If it was that ******* simple the club wouldn't be in the position it is right now.

You don't want discussion you want followers
 

LMGjr

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I understand the context of where we are at, and that context can be used to form the answer to the question. But no answer was given, and I didn't ask him for that anyway. If he is going to use those excuses and reasons then he may as well just answer the question to begin with.

I didn't ask him whether he thinks we should back Clarko in the future, etc, either. It was just a simple question regarding this season - one he wasn't able to answer.

FWIW I agree that losing the key people we have will take an obvious toll. But again, that wasn't what I was asking.
Do you really understand the context of COVID and how it's stopped Kosi, Jeka, as an examples of making a real play at it, or insert name here ......

So, no the context you want does not answer the question because Lewis could get his shoulder right and come out and rip the comp apart by changing the whole dynamic up forward. Did you see Roughie and Buddy doing it in 2008 beforehand? If so you must have cleaned up at the bookmakers way back in the November 2007 odds!!

Let go of your silly agenda mate. It's seriously boring.
 

Judd2Sewell

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Yes but there is this need to act like everything is simple and black and white on here with our current situation but it's not. If it was that ******* simple the club wouldn't be in the position it is right now.

You don't want discussion you want followers
I want followers? What are you on about?

All the context you have is used to form the answer to the question. So just give the answer. This isn't about being black or white.
 

Pessimistic

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You would be looking to have as many of the top 22 as 10 year 200 game players.
If a player stays 10 years then with lists of 40, on average each year 4 players retire so 4 more come onto the list (and by association 4 become best 22 regulars)
but only 40% or less draftees become that, so you look to recruit 10 draftees of which 4 will make it. but you cant draft 10 every year, or the list would turn over every 4 years. Teams with such a low average age would never win a flag

That was the pint of the hard rebuild. you forget about having a balanced list, draft 8-10 players for three years and hope you have 30 x 0.4 = 12 core best 22 players, then spend a few years with less draftees and more trades to balance your list

Or you can do both each year, trade in a couple of mature players and also draft 4 draftees,thinking that 2 will be players (and you might get lucky with the occasional rookie pick.

With the second option, your average age does not fluctuate quite as much ,and stays higher, which is where ALL premiership teams come from.

You don't maintain that every year, but you do try to maximise any recruitment opportunity.

St Kilda took the first approach from about 2012-2013 - very soon after missing a flag Goddard Dal Santo McEvoy traded out, apart from Carlisle didn't really go for experienced trades till 2018-2019, six years later

Geelong in the same time period took the mixed approach. Time will tell but was the st kilda sacrifice worth it?
 

Gralin

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I want followers? What are you on about?

All the context you have is used to form the answer to the question. So just give the answer. This isn't about being black or white.
You bag Clarko for being stubborn and not doing what you want, someone said go apply for the job yourself then because all you are doing is saying you can see it more clearly than Clarko.
You've also said that Clarko isn't the best coach going right now that Hardwick is. If you think the Tigers have a better list than the Hawks then you've got to look further than just W/L to decide who is coaching better.

But what do you do? Are we going to win the flag or not.

You don't want to discuss the comments you make, so you change the topic and then wait for the response to you can use that answer to act like it justifies what you post about Clarko.

It's becoming common on here, just give me a yes or a no, no interest in details or reasoning and often it's when you don't like the reasoning you've gotten off someone.

Do I think we will win the flag this year? No I don't. Do I know we won't win the flag this year? No I don't.

Do I thin whether you think we will win the flag means your opinions on Clarko are correct? No I don't.

You say it's not about being black and right but you are making it a binary arguement which leaves no room for the obvious I don't know or you're asking the wrong question or any discussion at all.
 

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