List Mgmt. Graeme Wrights Recruiting (Analysing HFC recruiting from 2011-present)

[KermitJagger]

As I understand it, they can play "D league " (NBA development league), overseas or some other options. The claim was that they were trying to protect kids from entering the league too soon. The cynic in me thinks it was because the NCAA was growing concerned the talent level in university was degrading and they pressured the NBA into an agreement. All about money over here.

Yeah the NCAA is largely unpaid labour for basketball prospects, you might get a degree out of it but that's of little concern to anyone who is good enough to play NBA. It's a terrible system. They make truckloads of money off the back of college sports.

 

[flinchfree]

Yeah the NCAA is largely unpaid labour for basketball prospects, you might get a degree out of it but that's of little concern to anyone who is good enough to play NBA. It's a terrible system. They make truckloads of money off the back of college sports.

Terrible system?
That's bizzarre. Not sure if you have the numbers for kids playing ALL the collegiate level sports, but if you took the number who are drafted each year, or get asked to work out for summer league teams (G league), you could piss in the ocean in the hopes of hitting one. I don't have the number total but it would be in the many hundreds of thousands thoughout the various graded College level sports, and a total of what - 200 odd in the NFL, 60 ish in the NBA, and another 200 or so for the NHL 'make it'?
And then probably 500K kids who never get paid a professional dollar in their lives because they're not good enough to make it to the show - get a free or partly free college degree with which to make it further in some other profession.
It's also an absolute blast to be on a college sporting team, kids on campus laud their idols, the atmosphere they play in at home and away games KILLS pro events, and many choose to stay in the State they played in because job opportunities for these local heroes are phenomenal. As many will attest to, they hardly have to buy a beer for themselves again in life.

This dumb hubub to castigate the NCAA is churlish. They make money, yup, why shouldn't they.
They put on the GREATEST show in sports in the world in my opinion.
I'd watch college football and basketball every day every week over anything but playoffs pro sports. And I'll watch March Madness and the series of Bowl games every year over a pro playoff game that doesn't feature my team.
The energy, excitement, effort, camaraderie, meaning, purpose and skill of these college kids is absolutely brilliant.
In 20 years here I have tried watching the G League many times and can't make it further than 5 minutes. It's boring, poorly attended, full of players needing to light it up to get noticed by their pro affiliate, disjointed, just a mess.
Un fricking watchable.
The secondary football competitions including indoor and Canadian is equally as soul sapping to sit through.

Anyone who wants to replace what is a BRILLIANT developmental system that is college sports with pro B teams is lunacidal.

I'd love to see the kids get thrown a few bucks their way on top, but that's going to slowly happen anyway.
Anyone panning College sports has never watched them.

 

[KermitJagger]

Terrible system?
That's bizzarre. Not sure if you have the numbers for kids playing ALL the collegiate level sports, but if you took the number who are drafted each year, or get asked to work out for summer league teams (G league), you could piss in the ocean in the hopes of hitting one. I don't have the number total but it would be in the many hundreds of thousands thoughout the various graded College level sports, and a total of what - 200 odd in the NFL, 60 ish in the NBA, and another 200 or so for the NHL 'make it'?
And then probably 500K kids who never get paid a professional dollar in their lives because they're not good enough to make it to the show - get a free or partly free college degree with which to make it further in some other profession.
It's also an absolute blast to be on a college sporting team, kids on campus laud their idols, the atmosphere they play in at home and away games KILLS pro events, and many choose to stay in the State they played in because job opportunities for these local heroes are phenomenal. As many will attest to, they hardly have to buy a beer for themselves again in life.

This dumb hubub to castigate the NCAA is churlish. They make money, yup, why shouldn't they.
They put on the GREATEST show in sports in the world in my opinion.
I'd watch college football and basketball every day every week over anything but playoffs pro sports. And I'll watch March Madness and the series of Bowl games every year over a pro playoff game that doesn't feature my team.
The energy, excitement, effort, camaraderie, meaning, purpose and skill of these college kids is absolutely brilliant.
In 20 years here I have tried watching the G League many times and can't make it further than 5 minutes. It's boring, poorly attended, full of players needing to light it up to get noticed by their pro affiliate, disjointed, just a mess.
Un fricking watchable.
The secondary football competitions including indoor and Canadian is equally as soul sapping to sit through.

Anyone who wants to replace what is a BRILLIANT developmental system that is college sports with pro B teams is lunacidal.

I'd love to see the kids get thrown a few bucks their way on top, but that's going to slowly happen anyway.
Anyone panning College sports has never watched them.

I'm not panning the spectacle as I feel that College Basketball is fundamentally better, or the system for the colleges, but for the kids themselves it's a terrible deal. If you're good enough to make it in the NBA immediately why should you be committed to taking a year off before you do?

It's a terrible system for a player who wants to become professional, and one who is able to do so immediately. The NCAA pressured the NBA into instituting that rule because it's profitable for them to have guys like Ben Simmons running around for their team even though they don't want to be there.

Your entire rant had nothing to do with what I was saying because I'm not criticizing the spectacle, or the NCAA as a development pathway for kids who aren't immediately ready to be drafted.

 

[flinchfree]

I'm not panning the spectacle as I feel that College Basketball is fundamentally better, or the system for the colleges, but for the kids themselves it's a terrible deal. If you're good enough to make it in the NBA immediately why should you be committed to taking a year off before you do?

It's a terrible system for a player who wants to become professional, and one who is able to do so immediately. The NCAA pressured the NBA into instituting that rule because it's profitable for them to have guys like Ben Simmons running around for their team even though they don't want to be there.

Your entire rant had nothing to do with what I was saying because I'm not criticizing the spectacle, or the NCAA as a development pathway for kids who aren't immediately ready to be drafted.

Yep, but the problem is that you think the kids KNOW their best avenue in life at 18. As though a self interested pro team isn't telling every kid they can 'nominate for the NBA draft, you're soooooo good we for sure will take you if the draft falls right.'
For every Kobe and Lebron, there'd be 100,000 kids fooling themselves and being fooled by greedy pro teams who couldn't give a s**t who does or doesn't make it, they just want to sieve through as many as possible.

One year.
One effing year of being a kid in a College environment, being forced to take classes and learn just a little more about life.
One year to know whether that college degree might be more favorable to them than being shunted from one developmental league and city to another (so many get cut, signed by a different team hundreds and thousands of miles away) after they find out they didn't make the 15 man roster.

The line you used - It's a terrible system for a player who wants to become professional, and one who is able to do so immediately - is just factually incorrect. You have zero idea if it would be better the other way, in spite of all the evidence that if you're not Kobe or Lebron flaming out by going too soon is much more your likely path than all you can get out of the college experience.

I'm not trying to have a go at your thinking, but it seems unlikely you live here in the US.
Or experienced being a Divison 1, 2 or 3 College athlete.
Or had a kid who was any of those things.

You've listened to some pundits like Stephen A, and formed an opinion.
Lived here for 20 years.
7 in Chicago, worked in the Sports industry.
6 in Lawrence Kansas, home of the Jayhawks, worked in the Sports industry.
7 now in Kansas City, mostly retired but friendly with owners of Sporting KC MLS team and have had my son in the soccer Academy pathways since he was 8.

I live and love these sports, and I can PROMISE you, no athlete loses one single thing in life by going to College for a year unless they suffer a catastrophic injury that precludes them having a pro career. And all of those kids who are draft likely take multi million dollar insurance policies to cover themselves in that event.

 

[KermitJagger]

Yep, but the problem is that you think the kids KNOW their best avenue in life at 18. As though a self interested pro team isn't telling every kid they can 'nominate for the NBA draft, you're soooooo good we for sure will take you if the draft falls right.'
For every Kobe and Lebron, there'd be 100,000 kids fooling themselves and being fooled by greedy pro teams who couldn't give a s**t who does or doesn't make it, they just want to sieve through as many as possible.

One year.
One effing year of being a kid in a College environment, being forced to take classes and learn just a little more about life.
One year to know whether that college degree might be more favorable to them than being shunted from one developmental league and city to another (so many get cut, signed by a different team hundreds and thousands of miles away) after they find out they didn't make the 15 man roster.

The line you used - It's a terrible system for a player who wants to become professional, and one who is able to do so immediately - is just factually incorrect. You have zero idea if it would be better the other way, in spite of all the evidence that if you're not Kobe or Lebron flaming out by going too soon is much more your likely path than all you can get out of the college experience.

I'm not trying to have a go at your thinking, but it seems unlikely you live here in the US.
Or experienced being a Divison 1, 2 or 3 College athlete.
Or had a kid who was any of those things.

You've listened to some pundits like Stephen A, and formed an opinion.
Lived here for 20 years.
7 in Chicago, worked in the Sports industry.
6 in Lawrence Kansas, home of the Jayhawks, worked in the Sports industry.
7 now in Kansas City, mostly retired but friendly with owners of Sporting KC MLS team and have had my son in the soccer Academy pathways since he was 8.

I live and love these sports, and I can PROMISE you, no athlete loses one single thing in life by going to College for a year unless they suffer a catastrophic injury that precludes them having a pro career. And all of those kids who are draft likely take multi million dollar insurance policies to cover themselves in that event.

Again, a wall of text. Nothing of what you said changes the fact that the NCAA pressured the NBA into that rule out of their own self interest. Kids can still go down the NCAA path as it's clearly the best pathway to professional sports, but if you're LeBron James there's no reason for you to be there. At 18 it should be your choice to nominate for the draft when you feel you're ready, after 4 years in college for some, immediately after high school for others.

 

[flinchfree]

Again, a wall of text. Nothing of what you said changes the fact that the NCAA pressured the NBA into that rule out of their own self interest. Kids can still go down the NCAA path as it's clearly the best pathway to professional sports, but if you're LeBron James there's no reason for you to be there. At 18 it should be your choice to nominate for the draft when you feel you're ready, after 4 years in college for some, immediately after high school for others.

Again, nothing of what you write suggests you have knowledge of what you're writing. The NCAA did not pressure the NBA for a one year mandated attendance before draft eligibility, you have always been able to choose a different pathway than college - just not IMMEDIATELY in the year after HS ends can you nominate for the draft.
That's protecting 17/18 year olds from being pressured into making a decision that might advantage a pro team, or even worse from their families who see a gifted child as a meal ticket out of difficult financial situation.
You for some reason don't even acknowledge or address any of the very good reasons for having the system as it is but keep parroting the same line.
Feel free to use more text to explain how the issues are in fact non-issues.

 

[KermitJagger]

Again, nothing of what you write suggests you have knowledge of what you're writing. The NCAA did not pressure the NBA for a one year mandated attendance before draft eligibility, you have always been able to choose a different pathway than college - just not IMMEDIATELY in the year after HS ends can you nominate for the draft.
That's protecting 17/18 year olds from being pressured into making a decision that might advantage a pro team, or even worse from their families who see a gifted child as a meal ticket out of difficult financial situation.
You for some reason don't even acknowledge or address any of the very good reasons for having the system as it is but keep parroting the same line.
Feel free to use more text to explain how the issues are in fact non-issues.

I'll parrot the line that is true, clearly, as an independent Commission has already found that the one-and-done rule should be abolished.

 

[The Chad and I]

tl;dr
Did we sack Graham Wright retrospectively as our National Recruitment Maager?

 

[Agent Smith]

tl;dr
Did we sack Graham Wright retrospectively as our National Recruitment Maager?

Yep, he was no good. Needed someone who could trade in more talent.

 

[threesixpio]

Yep, he was no good. Needed someone who could trade in more talent.

Shithouse

 

[SuperSic]

I thought at this point of the thread I’d just highlight that his name is GRAHAM Wright.

 

[hk89]

I thought at this point of the thread I’d just highlight that his name is GRAHAM Wright.

I've also heard his middle name is 'Always'.

 

[Dewnior]

I've also heard his middle name is 'Mostly'.

fify, there was some dross recruited since 2011.

 

[Pessimistic]

I've also heard his middle name is 'Always'.

its 44%

 

[hk89]

fify, there was some dross recruited since 2011.

True, but it's hard with late picks, still amazingly good given the picks we've had. Obviously 'Always' a slight exaggeration.

 

[Pessimistic]

44% is about the average across the whole drafting, and hawthorn have hit that with the un-elite picks they have had

worth pondering that it can never be anywhere near 100% cos not all draftees will get regular senior games. Only the best 44% it seems

 

[Dewnior]

True, but it's hard with late picks, still amazingly good given the picks we've had.

Hartung & Lovell were early picks.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Hartung & Lovell were early picks.

Both real mistakes for mine. Would love someone who has the inside line to identify what went wrong with these two?

 

[hk89]

Hartung & Lovell were early picks.

Reliability of picks drops off pretty quickly after the top few. Hartung was pick 24, Lovell was 22. Compare your definition of 'early' to what recruiters like SOS have been dealing with in their jobs.

 

[Dewnior]

Both real mistakes for mine. Would love someone who has the inside line to identify what went wrong with these two?

Well, giving Lovell the #36 didn't help

 

[Gralin]

Hartung & Lovell were early picks.

And Sicily, Hardwick and Worpel were late picks.

 

[Dewnior]

And Sicily, Hardwick and Worpel were late picks.

And your point is? Did you read the conversation before posting?

 

[Gralin]

And your point is? Did you read the conversation before posting?

Yeah i did.

Hk was talking about his strike rate given the late picks

You named two players he missed on with picks in the 20s, i named 3 he hit on with later picks.

 

[Dewnior]

Yeah i did.

Hk was talking about his strike rate given the late picks

You named two players he missed on with picks in the 20s, i named 3 he hit on with later picks.

I said there were some dross recruited referring to the early picks. The late picks were gems

 

[grumbleguts]

I said there were some dross recruited referring to the early picks. The late picks were gems

I really don't think you're having the argument you think you're having.