Socceroos (Graham Arnold and) The Socceroos Thread

He needs to go to a league that suits his game. It is all well and good throwing up teams and different leagues whether they be first or second division, but he needs to go somewhere he can play and play well with confidence. Rogic in form is vital to the national team. Rogic out of form might as well not even turn up.
 
Dec 22, 2009
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He needs to go to a league that suits his game. It is all well and good throwing up teams and different leagues whether they be first or second division, but he needs to go somewhere he can play and play well with confidence. Rogic in form is vital to the national team. Rogic out of form might as well not even turn up.

I'd love to see him play a key role at Qatar 22, Asian Cup 23 and then as an overage player at 2024 Olympics.
 
Rogic would probably not get a game at Ajax/PSV/Feyenoord, and certainly wouldn't be getting more game time than Hrustic in the Bundesliga or Ligue 1.

Realistically, and despite a good season at Celtic, he is behind Hrustic for the sole AM role in Arnie's system. Mainly because he will too easily disappear if the rest of the team aren't maintaining good possession. Can star for a dominant Celtic team in Scotland, or when we're playing lesser Asian teams - but in the World Cup where we'll be underdogs each game I think Hrustic is comfortably the more solid choice.



Rogic if he wants to make the trip at all needs to be playing week-in, week-out and he's only going to do that if he goes to a top team in the league he's in. Since he won't be in a top team in any of the big leagues, it'll have to be a smaller European league or good Asian team.

That means probably Korea or Middle East (or Japan maybe if Muscat would consider taking him on?). Or maybe a good team somewhere like Poland, Switzerland or Serbia. MLS might be his other option. Or of course maybe dropping down a division in German, Italian or Spanish second tiers.
Yeah I think Rogic is too slow for the top leagues ...was found out in some of the Euro games this season. Hopefully as others have suggested Korea or Japan.
 

RedStarUncle

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He needs to go to a league that suits his game. It is all well and good throwing up teams and different leagues whether they be first or second division, but he needs to go somewhere he can play and play well with confidence. Rogic in form is vital to the national team. Rogic out of form might as well not even turn up.


I'd go one step further and say not just a league... but a team within that league.

To me, Rogic is best when the rest of the team around him are able to maintain possession and control the game. He is then free to drift in and out of attacking space and get a reasonable number of chances to influence the game with a creative moment.

League is generally at a higher tempo? Risks getting closed down too often whenever he gets the ball (relatively low risk IMO).
Team is only a mid-table or lower team, and often plays defensively or on the counter? Work-rate is not sufficient.
Team doesn't play with a controlling, possession-based style? Doesn't see enough of the ball to influence the game.


He really is a luxury player. For Australia, I think this is why he looks best if we're playing smaller Asian teams or some of the Middle East teams that like to sit back and counter-attack. We end up with 60% possession and he has one or two brilliant moments that win us the game and make him look the star.

It's also why he looked so good for Celtic under Ange this season - absolutely perfect in a dominant team that likes to control the game and fashion out clear chances by patiently moving the ball about and creating spaces. And conversely some of the more fast-and-furious style coaches at Celtic haven't used him as a regular starter. That's even before you bring up the fact that he's a real confidence player and probably does his best work breaking a game open when things are going well... rather than turning a game when things are against the team.

If we're playing stronger opposition (i.e. France, Denmark and Tunisia) I think I'd prefer Hrustic to start, and Rogic is at best an impact sub. And that's assuming he's sorted his club out and playing regularly.
 
Id have Rogic starting against Tunisia with Hrustic. Gotta have a real crack at em.
Absolutely. We don't really have an effective striker and Rogic can play a false 9, plus Hrustic can also be very effective off a wing.
 

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Absolutely. We don't really have an effective striker and Rogic can play a false 9, plus Hrustic can also be very effective off a wing.

You're starting to get to something like my preferred shape for the Socceroos... not that it'll ever happen with Arnie in charge!

I'd have Rogic up top but in a false 9 sort of role drifting deep into space. Boyle plays a in the half-space on the right rather than an out-and-out winger and looks to attack the gaps left by Rogic. Hrustic sits between those two and the midfield as the playmaker. If you want a bit more defensive energy in the front line then Leckie or Duke can still come in, and if you want a pure finisher if you're on top and needing a goal then you throw on Maclaren or Taggart.

Then... given that narrow front three, wing-backs and three centre-backs makes up the attacking width without losing cover. We're perfectly built for that with Behich, Smith, Atkinson, King and (to a lesser extent) Karacic all probably more comfortable pushing forward than staying back. Leckie can play wing-back to in a throwback to the Ange days plus Goodwin is there. And Degenek, Sainsbury and Rowles all look quite well suited to play as the outside centre-backs in a back 3, with Souttar the anchor.

Leaves you with only a two man central midfield - luckily a Mooy-Irvine combo there is probably the perfect balance combining technique and mobility. Stensness comes in if you want some extra defensive presence and physicality. Genreau or McGree also back-ups.



There's a lot of positives to that shape (not least getting Rogic and Hrustic in the team together). And it's almost the same starting XI as the playoffs (only change, apart from shape, is Rogic in for Duke up top and Leckie on the left either drops down to replace Behich/Atkinson or out for the extra central defender).
 
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I read an article/rumour? that Rogic was considering a move to Indonesia...

Like seriously? Please don't do that 5 months from a World Cup. He is only 29 years old and was a key part of the Scottish champions midfield, he should easily be able to get some sort of contract in a reasonable European league, even a second division club, somewhere and play regularly.
 
Dec 22, 2009
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I read an article/rumour? that Rogic was considering a move to Indonesia...

Like seriously? Please don't do that 5 months from a World Cup. He is only 29 years old and was a key part of the Scottish champions midfield, he should easily be able to get some sort of contract in a reasonable European league, even a second division club, somewhere and play regularly.

His Socceroos career would be over for sure, I think you can dismiss that rumor as nonsense. Rogic is far too good for the Indonesian league, maybe in 10 years time.
 

AJ_2000

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On Rogic

The playmaker has been offered a lucrative deal to play in Indonesia with Persija Jakarta as former Borussia Dortmund and Hamburg boss Thomas Doll looks to revamp his side.

 

AJ_2000

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In better news Mabil is off to Spain for Cadiz in La Liga. 4 year deal.

 

AJ_2000

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On Rogic

The playmaker has been offered a lucrative deal to play in Indonesia with Persija Jakarta as former Borussia Dortmund and Hamburg boss Thomas Doll looks to revamp his side.


doing some research on Liga 1, they have a team that is run by the Indonesian Police.

I wonder if that's like the team of prison guards in the longest yard....
 
Dec 22, 2009
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On Rogic

The playmaker has been offered a lucrative deal to play in Indonesia with Persija Jakarta as former Borussia Dortmund and Hamburg boss Thomas Doll looks to revamp his side.


I'm sure Rogic has plenty of teams in places like the Indian League & Indonesian league all wanting to sign him but if he isn't willing to join an A League side as an Aussie marquee then there's no chance he takes a step down to the Indian League or joins a club in the Indonesian league which is even worse.


I doubt there's anything to these rumors.
 
Dec 22, 2009
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In better news Mabil is off to Spain for Cadiz in La Liga. 4 year deal.


Great stuff. The more Aussies playing in quality European leagues the better.


In an ideal world the only Aussies playing in ME / China are players chasing a big final payday at the end of their career.
 

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I'm sure Rogic has plenty of teams in places like the Indian League & Indonesian league all wanting to sign him but if he isn't willing to join an A League side as an Aussie marquee then there's no chance he takes a step down to the Indian League or joins a club in the Indonesian league which is even worse.


I doubt there's anything to these rumors.


More specifically... I'm sure there's substance to the rumour, but an ambitious Indonesian club wanting to sign Rogic doesn't necessarily equate to Rogic having an interest in joining an ambitious Indonesian club.

Only reason I'd wonder is when it combines with his withdrawal from the Socceroos playoff squad. Maybe he's not interested in playing for Australia in the World Cup, in which case good money in a low-demand and low-profile league with close travel home to Australia might suit him perfectly.
 
Dec 22, 2009
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More specifically... I'm sure there's substance to the rumour, but an ambitious Indonesian club wanting to sign Rogic doesn't necessarily equate to Rogic having an interest in joining an ambitious Indonesian club.

Only reason I'd wonder is when it combines with his withdrawal from the Socceroos playoff squad. Maybe he's not interested in playing for Australia in the World Cup, in which case good money in a low-demand and low-profile league with close travel home to Australia might suit him perfectly.

Even if he wasn't interested in playing for Australia at the World Cup he could easily land a marquee contract in the A League which would be subsidised by the A League marquee fund being a high profile Socceroo. I can't imagine any scenario where a player of Rogic's stature would choose to play in Indonesia over the A League.


As you said it's likely there's a club that wants to sign Rogic in Indonesia but it just isn't a realistic possibility. Maybe in another 5-6 years.
 

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Even if he wasn't interested in playing for Australia at the World Cup he could easily land a marquee contract in the A League which would be subsidised by the A League marquee fund being a high profile Socceroo. I can't imagine any scenario where a player of Rogic's stature would choose to play in Indonesia over the A League.


As you said it's likely there's a club that wants to sign Rogic in Indonesia but it just isn't a realistic possibility. Maybe in another 5-6 years.

Don't underestimate the idea that the money on the table in Indonesia could be substantially more (particularly if there are tax concessions, etc. to consider) than what an A-League club could pay.

Also don't underestimate that Rogic might perceive the scrutiny on being a marquee player in a league where he might be able to influence but not necessarily dominate would be more extreme and have an effect on his mental health compared to going to Indonesia where it'd be possibly less pressure and presumably an easier standard.

Not saying that's right... just that it might be a factor.



Anyway, coming back to the A-League is just as bad as going to Indonesia for World Cup prospects, since the season doesn't even start until October just a month before the World Cup starts. Rogic might not even get an A-League game in before the squad gets announced!


Davidson and Rowles are already off the Europe and the likes of Brimmer, Tillio, Ikonomidis, etc. probably need to think about getting over too even if only on a loan. Leckie, Goodwin, Maclaren, etc. probably got the runs on the board to be judged without needing to prove form and fitness prior to the squad being selected.
 
Dec 22, 2009
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It really isnt in terms of Socceroos. A League is miles be
Don't underestimate the idea that the money on the table in Indonesia could be substantially more (particularly if there are tax concessions, etc. to consider) than what an A-League club could pay.

Also don't underestimate that Rogic might perceive the scrutiny on being a marquee player in a league where he might be able to influence but not necessarily dominate would be more extreme and have an effect on his mental health compared to going to Indonesia where it'd be possibly less pressure and presumably an easier standard.

Not saying that's right... just that it might be a factor.



Anyway, coming back to the A-League is just as bad as going to Indonesia for World Cup prospects, since the season doesn't even start until October just a month before the World Cup starts. Rogic might not even get an A-League game in before the squad gets announced!


Davidson and Rowles are already off the Europe and the likes of Brimmer, Tillio, Ikonomidis, etc. probably need to think about getting over too even if only on a loan. Leckie, Goodwin, Maclaren, etc. probably got the runs on the board to be judged without needing to prove form and fitness prior to the squad being selected.

A League isn't bad for world cup prospects, there's always A League players in the world cup squad, even at Germany 2006.



I can't think of a single Indonesian league player participating at a World Cup. The standard is poor and orginisation is a shambles. I can't imagine a scenario where Rogic going there wouldn't be looked upon unfavorably.
 

RedStarUncle

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It really isnt in terms of Socceroos. A League is miles be


A League isn't bad for world cup prospects, there's always A League players in the world cup squad, even at Germany 2006.



I can't think of a single Indonesian league player participating at a World Cup. The standard is poor and orginisation is a shambles. I can't imagine a scenario where Rogic going there wouldn't be looked upon unfavorably.
This World Cup is different.


Even in the past, there have been issues of when the A-League finished quite early and had a large gap before a mid-year World Cup. Players would either look for short term loans at the end of the season, or at least would rely on connections to go and train at European clubs who were still playing through those last months.

This World Cup starting in November combined with the A-League not starting until October means that effectively the World Cup squad will be being picked in the early rounds of the season.



That's not such a big issue for the likes of Leckie and Maclaren. We know what they're capable of what they bring to the Socceroos. They'll have a pre-season under their belt and enough competitive games to come into the WC Squad.

The likes of Tillio, d'Agostino, Brimmer, etc. are however probably just sitting outside of the squad as things stand. They need to show something in competitive matches to justify winning selection for the World Cup. They're not going to have much time at all in the A-League to do that.




So I guess it comes down to whether you consider Rogic as a walk-up starter for the squad if he's committed, or whether he has to prove something after missing the playoffs.

If the former is true... then A-League is viable. But I might equally argue that if the former is true he still gets picked even if he goes to Indonesia.




I don't necessarily disagree with you. I just think Indonesia could be more tempting for Rogic than you imagine. And while I could see a European club or MLS as a sound option to help push a World Cup selection case, I don't think A-League or Indonesia makes much difference purely on the basis that in both cases I think he'll be picked or not picked based on prior performances rather than what he does in the next 3-4 months.
 

AJ_2000

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Harry Souttar update - should be moving towards training on the grass in a week or two instead of the gym

 
Dec 22, 2009
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Harry Souttar update - should be moving towards training on the grass in a week or two instead of the gym


Thats pretty encouraging. Probably a month away from full training so will get a pre season under his belt. Should be in good shape for Qatar.
 
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