Graham Cornes: Bruce Francis’ dogged fight to clear the names of the Essendon 34

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kane249

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owen87

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 23, 2016
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Why did your club destroy paperwork and delete commuter files that showed what was injected into the players if they had nothing to hide?
That's a fairly silly question though isn't it; unless one of Dank or Robinson are posting on Big Footy then no one can answer that beyond speculation. Also not sure of the relevance here.

The players were served with the maximum length penalty under the WADA code, whether they tested positive to anything is immaterial at that point.

Why did your club engage Stephen Dank, what was injected to the players, should they have been sanctioned, and how can anyone trust the league when such teams are allowed to go unpunished?

 

Aussie in exile

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Nov 21, 2013
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That's a fairly silly question though isn't it; unless one of Dank or Robinson are posting on Big Footy then no one can answer that beyond speculation. Also not sure of the relevance here.

The players were served with the maximum length penalty under the WADA code, whether they tested positive to anything is immaterial at that point.

Why did your club engage Stephen Dank, what was injected to the players, should they have been sanctioned, and how can anyone trust the league when such teams are allowed to go unpunished?

No its not. If they had nothing to hide why did they destroy the records
Your post bears no relevance to my post - Best if you address the issue.
In my opinion and many other peoples opinion they destroyed the records of what was injected into the players as they had something to hide.
 

HairyO

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Its contentious as to whether they did.
So where are all the records? Every player must make a complete list of all the injections and medicines they take. They must provide it to the club. The club must keep copies and provide to the AFL chief medical officers.

Every player gets told this at least twice a year. Every club doctor gets told this constantly when they get the requests from the AFL.

Im sure all the players kept all the records. It would be amazing if every single one of them forgot over and over.

So, where are the records? Jobe described having dozens of injections. Surely he made dozens of notes in his report, or maybe dozens of reports.
 

owen87

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 23, 2016
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No its not. If they had nothing to hide why did they destroy the records
Yet again you're being disingenuous here, as I (and no one here that I'm aware of) worked for the club at the time.

You also neglected to answer; Why did your club engage Stephen Dank, what was injected to the players, should they have been sanctioned, and how can anyone trust the league when such teams are allowed to go unpunished?

Those Melbourne scum really should be kicked out of the league, they've absolutely gotten off without any penalties whilst the poor Essendon players were suspended for two whole years without a single positive test.
 

owen87

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 23, 2016
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So where are all the records? Every player must make a complete list of all the injections and medicines they take. They must provide it to the club. The club must keep copies and provide to the AFL chief medical officers.

Every player gets told this at least twice a year. Every club doctor gets told this constantly when they get the requests from the AFL.

Im sure all the players kept all the records. It would be amazing if every single one of them forgot over and over.

So, where are the records? Jobe described having dozens of injections. Surely he made dozens of notes in his report, or maybe dozens of reports.
If you're actually being genuine in your questions; the rules and requirements have changed significantly since 2012 when this all occurred. There's also some contention as to whether or not many of the injections actually did need to be reported at the time various players were asked to complete various forms as (from memory) there was a "within the last x days" clause in the form.

I think it's likely the players, particularly the senior ones, were to some element complicit in obscuring the process from various people (e.g. Bruce Reid) under advice from those administering the programme. To what extent it was that they believed they were engaging in a programme that actively contravened WADA rules, or that they were told it was to keep information away from other teams (similar to how game plans and strategy would be kept secret) I really don't know.
 

Aussie in exile

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Yet again you're being disingenuous here, as I (and no one here that I'm aware of) worked for the club at the time.

You also neglected to answer; Why did your club engage Stephen Dank, what was injected to the players, should they have been sanctioned, and how can anyone trust the league when such teams are allowed to go unpunished?

Those Melbourne scum really should be kicked out of the league, they've absolutely gotten off without any penalties whilst the poor Essendon players were suspended for two whole years without a single positive test.
The question remains if your club had nothing to hide why did it destroy all the records of what was injected into the players?
 

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Aussie in exile

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If you're actually being genuine in your questions; the rules and requirements have changed significantly since 2012 when this all occurred. There's also some contention as to whether or not many of the injections actually did need to be reported at the time various players were asked to complete various forms as (from memory) there was a "within the last x days" clause in the form.

I think it's likely the players, particularly the senior ones, were to some element complicit in obscuring the process from various people (e.g. Bruce Reid) under advice from those administering the programme. To what extent it was that they believed they were engaging in a programme that actively contravened WADA rules, or that they were told it was to keep information away from other teams (similar to how game plans and strategy would be kept secret) I really don't know.
The question remains why did Essendon destroy the records of what was in injected into the players if there was nothing to hide?
 

owen87

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 23, 2016
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The question remains if your club had nothing to hide why did it destroy all the records of what was injected into the players?
Why did your club engage Stephen Dank, what was injected to the players, should they have been sanctioned, and how can anyone trust the league when such teams are allowed to go unpunished?

Is there actually a point to you posting here or are you just trolling?
 

Aussie in exile

Club Legend
Nov 21, 2013
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Why did your club engage Stephen Dank, what was injected to the players, should they have been sanctioned, and how can anyone trust the league when such teams are allowed to go unpunished?

Is there actually a point to you posting here or are you just trolling?
I still see you are still avoiding the question as to why your club destroyed records of what was injected into the players.
If it was legal what was injected into the players why would be know need to destroy records?, but if it was illegal
 

HairyO

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 13, 2015
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If you're actually being genuine in your questions; the rules and requirements have changed significantly since 2012 when this all occurred. There's also some contention as to whether or not many of the injections actually did need to be reported at the time various players were asked to complete various forms as (from memory) there was a "within the last x days" clause in the form.

I think it's likely the players, particularly the senior ones, were to some element complicit in obscuring the process from various people (e.g. Bruce Reid) under advice from those administering the programme. To what extent it was that they believed they were engaging in a programme that actively contravened WADA rules, or that they were told it was to keep information away from other teams (similar to how game plans and strategy would be kept secret) I really don't know.
At the time the AFL requirement was what I said (unless they wrote it as soon as they heard about Essendon "self reporting"). What WADA required was different and was along the lines of your point.

However, not one of them ever wrote any injections on the WADA form. Despite them all getting dozens of injections over many months. None of them ever had an injection in the reporting period.

I didnt believe it. ASADA didnt believe it. The AFL's Tribunal did. WADA then didnt believe it, and ultimately CAS didnt believe it.

In many ways the players and Dank shot themselves in the foot. Jobe admitted to getting dozens of injections unlike he had ever experienced before. Dank gloated about finding a magical drug which was legal, then went quiet as soon as he found out it wasnt.

Hird ignored the repeated warnings from a doctor he supposedly respected (enough to have him as his personal doctor for his whole family). Bomber... well, we know he spends large amounts of time not on planet earth. The others simply never should have been trusted.
 

owen87

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 23, 2016
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At the time the AFL requirement was what I said (unless they wrote it as soon as they heard about Essendon "self reporting"). What WADA required was different and was along the lines of your point.

However, not one of them ever wrote any injections on the WADA form. Despite them all getting dozens of injections over many months. None of them ever had an injection in the reporting period.

I didnt believe it. ASADA didnt believe it. The AFL's Tribunal did. WADA then didnt believe it, and ultimately CAS didnt believe it.

In many ways the players and Dank shot themselves in the foot. Jobe admitted to getting dozens of injections unlike he had ever experienced before. Dank gloated about finding a magical drug which was legal, then went quiet as soon as he found out it wasnt.

Hird ignored the repeated warnings from a doctor he supposedly respected (enough to have him as his personal doctor for his whole family). Bomber... well, we know he spends large amounts of time not on planet earth. The others simply never should have been trusted.
Agreed on this in general, particularly the bolded. The people in charge, and senior players, bear the brunt of the responsibility for allowing Dank to undertake the programme he did.

If you look at how the AFL Tribunal assessed the evidence, it's not surprising the verdict they supplied, there was minimal evidence that could prove anything in the way a positive test, video footage etc.. would do. There was however a lot of bits and pieces that suggested something was very clearly amiss, and the way CAS reviewed the evidence allowed this to form a single coherent charge.

Very likely if the players had taken their cases to court individually that a number of them would have avoided suspension.

The whole TB-4 wasn't on the ASADA website line is flawed and completely irrelevant to the end result of the player suspension, and I don't see how anyone with an understanding of how the WADA code is written would think it affects the verdict in any way whatsoever.

FWIW my suspicion is that Essendon was not the first, wasn't the only, and won't be the last club to push the envelope in regards to doping practices, but I do hope there's enough scare factor in the result to keep a lid on what people think they can get away with.

The entire process was handled appallingly, with too many fingers in the pie trying to stage manage the whole thing - EFC, the AFL, various political interests and even ASADA.
 

Strapping Young Lad

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Apr 19, 2006
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And when will Hird reveal the truth? He said it would all come out in time. Its now 7 years.
Everyone at Essendon signed NDA’s to never speak of it again, their president wants nothing more to come of it.

AFLPA accepted the outcome and never said a word again.

Players received compensation from EFC endorsed by the AFL who allowed these payments to fall outside of the cap.

It’s a dead giveaway as to why all this happened, isn’t it.
 

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