Graham Cornes: Bruce Francis’ dogged fight to clear the names of the Essendon 34

[kane249]

Whilst in MLB you can actually test positive to Steroids and receive a half-season ban.

MLB like a few of the other major US sports leagues are big enough to be independent of WADA, so they get that loophole.

If that same player had competed in the Olympics and tested positive then he would have got a bigger ban.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Exactly - Yet thousands of posts have been wasted arguing the same - All you could do is check the substances listed on the consent forms.

Why did your club destroy all the records of what was injected into the players if they had nothing to hide?

 

[HairyO]

Why did your club destroy all the records of what was injected into the players if they had nothing to hide?

And when will Hird reveal the truth? He said it would all come out in time. Its now 7 years.

 

[owen87]

Why did your club destroy paperwork and delete commuter files that showed what was injected into the players if they had nothing to hide?

That's a fairly silly question though isn't it; unless one of Dank or Robinson are posting on Big Footy then no one can answer that beyond speculation. Also not sure of the relevance here.

The players were served with the maximum length penalty under the WADA code, whether they tested positive to anything is immaterial at that point.

Why did your club engage Stephen Dank, what was injected to the players, should they have been sanctioned, and how can anyone trust the league when such teams are allowed to go unpunished?

Text messages reveal Dank involved with Demons

The sport scientist at the centre of the Essendon AFL doping scandal has revealed he also had extensive dealings with the Melbourne Demons.

www.abc.net.au

 

[jerry springer]

despite the saga going for this long, the movie still wouldn't be longer than the Irishman.

 

[yaco55]

Why did your club destroy all the records of what was injected into the players if they had nothing to hide?

Your post bears no relevance to my post - Best if you address the issue.

 

[avignon]

Why did your club destroy paperwork and delete commuter files that showed what was injected into the players if they had nothing to hide?

Its contentious as to whether they did.

 

[Aussie in exile]

That's a fairly silly question though isn't it; unless one of Dank or Robinson are posting on Big Footy then no one can answer that beyond speculation. Also not sure of the relevance here.

The players were served with the maximum length penalty under the WADA code, whether they tested positive to anything is immaterial at that point.

Why did your club engage Stephen Dank, what was injected to the players, should they have been sanctioned, and how can anyone trust the league when such teams are allowed to go unpunished?

Text messages reveal Dank involved with Demons

The sport scientist at the centre of the Essendon AFL doping scandal has revealed he also had extensive dealings with the Melbourne Demons.

www.abc.net.au

No its not. If they had nothing to hide why did they destroy the records

Your post bears no relevance to my post - Best if you address the issue.

In my opinion and many other peoples opinion they destroyed the records of what was injected into the players as they had something to hide.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Its contentious as to whether they did.

Enlighten us more.

 

[HairyO]

Its contentious as to whether they did.

So where are all the records? Every player must make a complete list of all the injections and medicines they take. They must provide it to the club. The club must keep copies and provide to the AFL chief medical officers.

Every player gets told this at least twice a year. Every club doctor gets told this constantly when they get the requests from the AFL.

Im sure all the players kept all the records. It would be amazing if every single one of them forgot over and over.

So, where are the records? Jobe described having dozens of injections. Surely he made dozens of notes in his report, or maybe dozens of reports.

 

[owen87]

No its not. If they had nothing to hide why did they destroy the records

Yet again you're being disingenuous here, as I (and no one here that I'm aware of) worked for the club at the time.

You also neglected to answer; Why did your club engage Stephen Dank, what was injected to the players, should they have been sanctioned, and how can anyone trust the league when such teams are allowed to go unpunished?

Those Melbourne scum really should be kicked out of the league, they've absolutely gotten off without any penalties whilst the poor Essendon players were suspended for two whole years without a single positive test.

 

[owen87]

So where are all the records? Every player must make a complete list of all the injections and medicines they take. They must provide it to the club. The club must keep copies and provide to the AFL chief medical officers.

Every player gets told this at least twice a year. Every club doctor gets told this constantly when they get the requests from the AFL.

Im sure all the players kept all the records. It would be amazing if every single one of them forgot over and over.

So, where are the records? Jobe described having dozens of injections. Surely he made dozens of notes in his report, or maybe dozens of reports.

If you're actually being genuine in your questions; the rules and requirements have changed significantly since 2012 when this all occurred. There's also some contention as to whether or not many of the injections actually did need to be reported at the time various players were asked to complete various forms as (from memory) there was a "within the last x days" clause in the form.

I think it's likely the players, particularly the senior ones, were to some element complicit in obscuring the process from various people (e.g. Bruce Reid) under advice from those administering the programme. To what extent it was that they believed they were engaging in a programme that actively contravened WADA rules, or that they were told it was to keep information away from other teams (similar to how game plans and strategy would be kept secret) I really don't know.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Yet again you're being disingenuous here, as I (and no one here that I'm aware of) worked for the club at the time.

You also neglected to answer; Why did your club engage Stephen Dank, what was injected to the players, should they have been sanctioned, and how can anyone trust the league when such teams are allowed to go unpunished?

Those Melbourne scum really should be kicked out of the league, they've absolutely gotten off without any penalties whilst the poor Essendon players were suspended for two whole years without a single positive test.

The question remains if your club had nothing to hide why did it destroy all the records of what was injected into the players?

 

[Aussie in exile]

If you're actually being genuine in your questions; the rules and requirements have changed significantly since 2012 when this all occurred. There's also some contention as to whether or not many of the injections actually did need to be reported at the time various players were asked to complete various forms as (from memory) there was a "within the last x days" clause in the form.

I think it's likely the players, particularly the senior ones, were to some element complicit in obscuring the process from various people (e.g. Bruce Reid) under advice from those administering the programme. To what extent it was that they believed they were engaging in a programme that actively contravened WADA rules, or that they were told it was to keep information away from other teams (similar to how game plans and strategy would be kept secret) I really don't know.

The question remains why did Essendon destroy the records of what was in injected into the players if there was nothing to hide?

 

[owen87]

The question remains if your club had nothing to hide why did it destroy all the records of what was injected into the players?

Why did your club engage Stephen Dank, what was injected to the players, should they have been sanctioned, and how can anyone trust the league when such teams are allowed to go unpunished?

Is there actually a point to you posting here or are you just trolling?

 

[Aussie in exile]

Why did your club engage Stephen Dank, what was injected to the players, should they have been sanctioned, and how can anyone trust the league when such teams are allowed to go unpunished?

Is there actually a point to you posting here or are you just trolling?

I still see you are still avoiding the question as to why your club destroyed records of what was injected into the players.
If it was legal what was injected into the players why would be know need to destroy records?, but if it was illegal

 

[owen87]

illegal

I'm not sure they were injecting any illegal substances. Certainly I don't believe EFC had anyone at the club actively injecting the players with Heroin.

 

[Aussie in exile]

I'm not sure they were injecting any illegal substances. Certainly I don't believe EFC had anyone at the club actively injecting the players with Heroin.

So why did they destroy the records?

 

[owen87]

So why did they destroy the records?

Records of the heroin? I don't think there ever were such injections, therefore there were never records of the injections of heroin that never occurred.

 

[HairyO]

If you're actually being genuine in your questions; the rules and requirements have changed significantly since 2012 when this all occurred. There's also some contention as to whether or not many of the injections actually did need to be reported at the time various players were asked to complete various forms as (from memory) there was a "within the last x days" clause in the form.

I think it's likely the players, particularly the senior ones, were to some element complicit in obscuring the process from various people (e.g. Bruce Reid) under advice from those administering the programme. To what extent it was that they believed they were engaging in a programme that actively contravened WADA rules, or that they were told it was to keep information away from other teams (similar to how game plans and strategy would be kept secret) I really don't know.

At the time the AFL requirement was what I said (unless they wrote it as soon as they heard about Essendon "self reporting"). What WADA required was different and was along the lines of your point.

However, not one of them ever wrote any injections on the WADA form. Despite them all getting dozens of injections over many months. None of them ever had an injection in the reporting period.

I didnt believe it. ASADA didnt believe it. The AFL's Tribunal did. WADA then didnt believe it, and ultimately CAS didnt believe it.

In many ways the players and Dank shot themselves in the foot. Jobe admitted to getting dozens of injections unlike he had ever experienced before. Dank gloated about finding a magical drug which was legal, then went quiet as soon as he found out it wasnt.

Hird ignored the repeated warnings from a doctor he supposedly respected (enough to have him as his personal doctor for his whole family). Bomber... well, we know he spends large amounts of time not on planet earth. The others simply never should have been trusted.

 

[owen87]

At the time the AFL requirement was what I said (unless they wrote it as soon as they heard about Essendon "self reporting"). What WADA required was different and was along the lines of your point.

However, not one of them ever wrote any injections on the WADA form. Despite them all getting dozens of injections over many months. None of them ever had an injection in the reporting period.

I didnt believe it. ASADA didnt believe it. The AFL's Tribunal did. WADA then didnt believe it, and ultimately CAS didnt believe it.

In many ways the players and Dank shot themselves in the foot. Jobe admitted to getting dozens of injections unlike he had ever experienced before. Dank gloated about finding a magical drug which was legal, then went quiet as soon as he found out it wasnt.

Hird ignored the repeated warnings from a doctor he supposedly respected (enough to have him as his personal doctor for his whole family). Bomber... well, we know he spends large amounts of time not on planet earth. The others simply never should have been trusted.

Agreed on this in general, particularly the bolded. The people in charge, and senior players, bear the brunt of the responsibility for allowing Dank to undertake the programme he did.

If you look at how the AFL Tribunal assessed the evidence, it's not surprising the verdict they supplied, there was minimal evidence that could prove anything in the way a positive test, video footage etc.. would do. There was however a lot of bits and pieces that suggested something was very clearly amiss, and the way CAS reviewed the evidence allowed this to form a single coherent charge.

Very likely if the players had taken their cases to court individually that a number of them would have avoided suspension.

The whole TB-4 wasn't on the ASADA website line is flawed and completely irrelevant to the end result of the player suspension, and I don't see how anyone with an understanding of how the WADA code is written would think it affects the verdict in any way whatsoever.

FWIW my suspicion is that Essendon was not the first, wasn't the only, and won't be the last club to push the envelope in regards to doping practices, but I do hope there's enough scare factor in the result to keep a lid on what people think they can get away with.

The entire process was handled appallingly, with too many fingers in the pie trying to stage manage the whole thing - EFC, the AFL, various political interests and even ASADA.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

And when will Hird reveal the truth? He said it would all come out in time. Its now 7 years.

Everyone at Essendon signed NDA’s to never speak of it again, their president wants nothing more to come of it.

AFLPA accepted the outcome and never said a word again.

Players received compensation from EFC endorsed by the AFL who allowed these payments to fall outside of the cap.

It’s a dead giveaway as to why all this happened, isn’t it.

 

[owen87]

Players received compensation from EFC endorsed by the AFL who allowed these payments to fall outside of the cap.

can’t help yourself can you

 

[matthew_s]

can’t help yourself can you

as if roles were reversed and Collingwood ran the worst team doping program in Aus history and got the #1 draft pick and topups and all this...nah you would never bring it up.

 

[HairyO]

can’t help yourself can you

And the insurance company which decided to not contest the claims (and most likely would have won) became a major AFL sponsor.

Nothing to see here at all !