AFL Grand Final Grand Final, 2019: Richmond v GWS

[Saint Watto]

Happens every year... i wake up on the Sunday after a GF flat as a tack that so many of my mates have seen their team win a flag and yet here I am, still waiting.

I'm with you there Kegs.

That sinking/sad feeling was with me all morning.....slowly disappearing as the day goes on.

I have a media embargo on until about Tues morning.....I have not read once thing about the Tiges win in the mainstream media.After the game.....sent a few Tiges friends a congrats txt but that's it.

My way of dealing with it I guess.....if it works for me....I'll do it....lol.

Thankfully in my travels today I only saw one Tiges cap.

Not far from me there's a huge Tiges banner stretched along the whole tennis court adjacent to the fence.....if I only had some paint spray cans...lol.

I've been waiting 48 years since I first starting watching the Saints......the clock is ticking and I'm getting more than a little toey !

Thank the Lord I'm no longer at my previous workplace.......there were Hawks supporters everywhere....it was torture when they won in 2013/14.......I thankfully had left by their 3rd flag.

 

[plugger66]

I'm not going to profess to know all the answers, otherwise I wouldn't be wasting my time on bigfooty.

But the way I see it is Richmond are the probably the best structured and well drilled side I've seen and the Giants didn't have the answers for it.

Every time I've seen GWS live, which is a few, I don't see that. They look more like a team that will back themselves to win one on one footy and back their talent.

The way Richmond defend the whole ground amazes me. They've got talent no doubt, but who would have predicted they would be as good as they are? They do that because of the way they are coached.

The Giants had no answers yesterday. A side with Kelly, Hopper, Taranto, Greene, Cameron etc should be able to score more than three goals in a game. You can't put that down to lack of talent.

If the Giants are going to win a flag they need to change the way they play because they've had the talent for years now but it's obviously not working.

I was also frustrated that Cameron didn't seem to have a plan B. Not a lot changed when it clearly wasn't working. They continued to let Richmond out number them behind the footy and continued to kick it to them. Even the basic things like shuffling a few magnets around wasn't happening a lot. Davis was getting beaten and Finlayson couldn't impact the game. Why not throw Davis forward and move Finlayson back? Might not of made a difference but what was there to lose?

Watch the tigers live and they know exactly where to go every time they have the ball or don’t have the ball. Clearly the best coached side in the afl. It helps that they have stars as well but average players do their role most weeks which is unusual for average players

 

[bird_man]

I'm with you there Kegs.

That sinking/sad feeling was with me all morning.....slowly disappearing as the day goes on.

I have a media embargo on until about Tues morning.....I have not read once thing about the Tiges win in the mainstream media.After the game.....sent a few Tiges friends a congrats txt but that's it.

My way of dealing with it I guess.....if it works for me....I'll do it....lol.

Thankfully in my travels today I only saw one Tiges cap.

Not far from me there's a huge Tiges banner stretched along the whole tennis court adjacent to the fence.....if I only had some paint spray cans...lol.

I've been waiting 48 years since I first starting watching the Saints......the clock is ticking and I'm getting more than a little toey !

Thank the Lord I'm no longer at my previous workplace.......there were Hawks supporters everywhere....it was torture when they won in 2013/14.......I thankfully had left by their 3rd flag.

Dude, I'm married to a Hawks supporter. That 3 peat was absolute hell having to pretend that I was happy for her!

 

[StCicatriz]

Finlayson got one touch, after a great season.
How on earth does that happen?
I think the manner of this loss will destroy their confidence way more than a well fought loss.

Agree on that.

Was thinking more about it today. I think people over rate this GWS list. I think they forget how much has gone out of it over the last 5 year's.

Also I think people under rate how good the tigers list is.

 

[StCicatriz]

I'm with you there Kegs.

That sinking/sad feeling was with me all morning.....slowly disappearing as the day goes on.

I have a media embargo on until about Tues morning.....I have not read once thing about the Tiges win in the mainstream media.After the game.....sent a few Tiges friends a congrats txt but that's it.

My way of dealing with it I guess.....if it works for me....I'll do it....lol.

Thankfully in my travels today I only saw one Tiges cap.

Not far from me there's a huge Tiges banner stretched along the whole tennis court adjacent to the fence.....if I only had some paint spray cans...lol.

I've been waiting 48 years since I first starting watching the Saints......the clock is ticking and I'm getting more than a little toey !

Thank the Lord I'm no longer at my previous workplace.......there were Hawks supporters everywhere....it was torture when they won in 2013/14.......I thankfully had left by their 3rd flag.

Get ready for more unhappiness. The current AFL chairman is a massive freo supporter. The WAFC are bending to do more for them.

Sadly a freo flag is a priority over any of the Victorian club's. Same with GC and GWS.

 

[Plugger35]

Happens every year... i wake up on the Sunday after a GF flat as a tack that so many of my mates have seen their team win a flag and yet here I am, still waiting.

It's bloody hard being a sainter sometimes.

Why in God's name can't we get a GF opponent as inept as GWS was yesterday. I swear the God's conspire against us

I started a thread on the main board after the game yesterday about cheap premierships, ie. Vic teams winning premierships against inept interstate opponents that don't show up like GWS or the Hawks when they flogged Sydney and West Coast in 2014 and 2015.

Copped a day off for my troubles from a Hawthorn supporting mod, I guess it cut a little too close to the bone, both the Hawks team from that era and the current Richmond team were/are very good teams but they got lucky by being served up some weak interstate opponents on GF day who basically just rolled over.

Then of course there was the 2016 GF debacle where the Swans turned up to play but got umpired out of the game by the most one sided umpiring display I've ever seen in a GF which handed the Bulldogs a charity flag.

Very frustrating as a Saints supporter when you think back to 2009 and 2010 where we came up against two of the best teams of the modern era who had more MCG experience than us and we got no free rides with the umpiring that both the Bulldogs and Richmond have enjoyed in recent years.

To win a premiership you need to be a good team but luck also plays a big part in it and we didn't get a lot of it when we've played in GFs.

Hopefully one day we'll get another lick of the premiership ice cream but the reality is we're still a long way off the pace and I can't see the likes of Richmond slowing down anytime soon. At the moment I'd just be happy to play finals again, it's been almost a decade since we last played finals.

 

[bird_man]

Rooey on SEN this morning saying the Giants have the talent there but need to add layers to their game other than just tough footy.

Need to find other ways to score other than scoring from stoppages...

Also said you rarely hear people talk about Richmonds talent as opposed to the Giants because of the brand of footy they play...

Nick obviously reading my bigfooty posts before going on radio again...

 

[Stewart66]

Get ready for more unhappiness. The current AFL chairman is a massive freo supporter. The WAFC are bending to do more for them.

Sadly a freo flag is a priority over any of the Victorian club's. Same with GC and GWS.

Not worried about Freo in the slightest dysfunctional club.

Richmond depth the only concern .

Really excited about our prospects going forward to be honest.

 

[Stewart66]

Let's remember Davis was injured. Like I said earlier he shouldn't have played.

If ross was coaching them I doubt they make a grand final tbh. Hell even finals.

I think GWS did change things in the area that was the root cause of all their issues. The midfield. But it didn't do anything. Hence the score. For example green was moved onto the ball.

I mean do you really think they didn't try anything?

Speak to any coach and they will tell you there's not a lot you can do during game. It's like 5% in terms of impact.

GWS got absolutely walloped because they were essentially the 5th best side of the year but because they played above themselves they managed to cause 2 upsets to get into it.

Dimma didn't win this final on match day coaching. He's won it because of their system over the last 10 years. Coupled with how he's coached the side since round 1. He clearly had an emphasis of coaching towards the grand final and peaking at the right time.

GWS had the reverse of their year list wise. Had a healthy list ended up in disrepair.

Don’t be suprised Ross Lyon turns up somewhere

I know Damien , think you will find he found out to be good listener with Leppa & Caracella .

Credit to him.

Keep saying it , we will play different style next year better moving the ball forward & defending a lot
harder to stop opposition , where that takes us .. is up to the players.

 

[BigPowerForward]

where that takes us .. is up to the players.

100% agree with this part. You can lead a horse to water.....
Assembling a competitive list is the first part of the equation and then for me it comes down to 2 things:
1. Belief.
The players have to have a system they believe in
2. Trust.
The players have to trust that their team mates will execute that system extremely well.
When this happens the whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts. Richmond are testament to this.
For the Saints, the framework on and off the field is assembling nicely but it will count for nothing if the players don't buy in.
From what I have seen and heard of Ratten, I believe he has the smarts to get the players to buy in.

 

[joop]

Lynch is everything that is wrong with AFL free agency.

The league want an American system where salary caps impacts where stars go and stop teams from loading up to win titles.

But US sports are now working out that the money is so high that 15 mil vs 10 mil and a championship is a real question.

AFL players aren't all greedy robots. It's drummed into every kid that team success is the ultimate. Nat Fyfe would trade both Brownlows for a single flag.

So when Tom Lynch looks at his options ,and decides on the lowest offer from he best team in the league, it goes totally against what the system is supposed to achieve.

St Kilda offered much more money. Some reports were as high as 500k a season more. Our bid came late in the piece though and we were never in the hunt.

Collingwood also offered more. Not as much as St Kilda, but they also had the lure of being Lynch's favorite team as a kid.

Lynch still chose the Tigers.

I don't know what the solution is. Do teams picking up FA players give up picks/points based on compo?

EG Lynch is worth band 1 compo so the Tigers have to lose their first round pick?

Or maybe put some power back with the club's and allow them to trade players while under contract. Tim Kelly off to Freo you go.

Unfortunately there is no easy answers and so it's really easy for clubs to fall into limbo while others are blessed with a timed run to win multiple flags.

My hope is that this group - Clark, Coffield, Bytel, Ming and maybe Bing, Wilkie etc - all gel and hit a peak in 4-5 years as Tassie and WA3 come in a ruin the draft for the teams falling through the mid card.

If it's another Richo style false dawn though then we are in for a world of hurt and a long time doing nothing because FA options are going to flock to the big MCG clubs for a shot at a flag.

LOL.
So lynch stays up at the s**t hole that is the Gold Coast for 8 years, playing in front of the worst crowds, then sacrifices money to have a shot at success and you think there’s something wrong with that?
Free agency is designed for the players to move more freely and ultimately end up where they want, seems like it’s doing exactly what it’s designed for.

 

[hayes]

Lynch is everything that is wrong with AFL free agency.

The league want an American system where salary caps impacts where stars go and stop teams from loading up to win titles.

But US sports are now working out that the money is so high that 15 mil vs 10 mil and a championship is a real question.

AFL players aren't all greedy robots. It's drummed into every kid that team success is the ultimate. Nat Fyfe would trade both Brownlows for a single flag.

So when Tom Lynch looks at his options ,and decides on the lowest offer from he best team in the league, it goes totally against what the system is supposed to achieve.

St Kilda offered much more money. Some reports were as high as 500k a season more. Our bid came late in the piece though and we were never in the hunt.

Collingwood also offered more. Not as much as St Kilda, but they also had the lure of being Lynch's favorite team as a kid.

Lynch still chose the Tigers.

I don't know what the solution is. Do teams picking up FA players give up picks/points based on compo?

EG Lynch is worth band 1 compo so the Tigers have to lose their first round pick?

Or maybe put some power back with the club's and allow them to trade players while under contract. Tim Kelly off to Freo you go.

Unfortunately there is no easy answers and so it's really easy for clubs to fall into limbo while others are blessed with a timed run to win multiple flags.

My hope is that this group - Clark, Coffield, Bytel, Ming and maybe Bing, Wilkie etc - all gel and hit a peak in 4-5 years as Tassie and WA3 come in a ruin the draft for the teams falling through the mid card.

If it's another Richo style false dawn though then we are in for a world of hurt and a long time doing nothing because FA options are going to flock to the big MCG clubs for a shot at a flag.

Free agency was never about equalization, it was about giving players more freedom to move and that’s what it’s done.

AFL lie about wanting equalization anyway. Some teams get more salary cap and the draft is disgustingly compromised. Just have to accept that.

 

[L_W_P]

Nah the issue isn't with the player or giving them more freedom to move.

It's that the system is half baked.

The idea was that the salary cap would stop top teams from signing stars. How could anyone at the top afford a full list of talent and Dusty AND Lynch over a million? How could anyone at the top have a list good enough and also pay Ablett, Selwood, Hawkins AND Dangerfield?

It was meant to follow to US model where the top bidder generally gets the top talent.

Unfortunately AFL players will sacrifice a couple hundred grand for a chance to win a flag. That's the culture we instill in our kids. Team success over everything else.

So we have the best young FA in the land turn down an offer of close to 50% more, and another offer of more money from the players favorite club, in order to sign with the best team in the comp because he wants to win a flag.

There was literally no downside for Richmond other than a perceived salary cap pressure.

This year they will let Brandon Ellis walk because of that pressure and, holy *, they will get a compensation pick, probably band 2 at the end of the first round or maybe band 3 to pair with their 2nd round pick.

This means they will effectively have traded Lynch for Ellis and a pick around 23 or 45.

Meanwhile a struggling club like us has to pay a very good winger in Brad Hill the same kind of money Lynch is on AND give up a top 10 draft pick. We lose out on both ends.

We drop a pick that could help us grow in the mid to long term and we have to allocate a significant portion of our cap to convince Hill to sign.

Insane that anyone thinks this system is fine...