AFL Grand Final Grand Final 2021 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs - Sat, Sept 25 - 5:15pm AWST / 7:15pm AEST

[bomberclifford]

Lol “best position: utility” and “weaknesses: unclear best position”


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I was going to post along the same lines:

Strength: versatility
Weakness: versatility

 

[Schulzenfest]

What nonsense. You aren't rating Boak (weird considering your posts in the not rating Boak thread?) and Wines? I get Lycett isn't top shelf, but I reckon you're hinting at this being beyond simply changing ruck.

Gawn is significantly better than Lycett. Oliver is better than Wines (and AFLCA MVP is better than Brownlow, before somebody plays that card). Petracca is significantly better than Boak. Viney is significantly better than Drew.

I think we've got a defence and forward line good enough to win a flag. Our midfield doesn't measure up. Wines and Boak are A graders, but they're not A+ like Petracca or Bontempelli, and they don't have enough help.

 

[edgie]

Imagine pinning your hopes on Marshmallow Rozee to somehow magically transform himself into a Petracca like presence.

Petrecca has been chubby flat track plodder for more of his career than a gun midfielder thus far. Be a critic of Rozee but let's not rewrite others as superstar players and hard working athletes from day dot while we're at it.

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

You can name 8 players in our team who are worse than Jake Bowey, Tom Sparrow, Alex Neal-Bullen or Charlie Spargo? I don't think I'd place any of those names ahead of the likes of Jarrod Lienert or Sam Mayes, let alone our actual best 22.

Nah. Our problem is the top end of talent, not the bottom. And the coach of course.

I tend to agree with this, I think our top 10 players are good (clearly, two prelims and two top two finishes) but in comparison to other top 4 teams they are pretty average. Our depth players are pretty on par with other top 4 teams if not better imo, but it’s the top end talent that usually win you games and that’s where we lack.

Ollie is the only player in our club that could go to any team and be in the best 5 players at any given club. Like Boak, Amon, Allir, Houston, Dixon etc wouldn’t be in Melbourne’s, WB, Geelongs even Brisbane’s top 5 players.

This has been a issue with us for many years though, our leaders fail.

 

[Windy Cindy]

Gawn is significantly better than Lycett. Oliver is better than Wines (and AFLCA MVP is better than Brownlow, before somebody plays that card). Petracca is significantly better than Boak. Viney is significantly better than Drew.

I think we've got a defence and forward line good enough to win a flag. Our midfield doesn't measure up. Wines and Boak are A graders, but they're not A+ like Petracca or Bontempelli, and they don't have enough help.

couldnt agree more.

therein lies our problem

 

[G3TWOTYAD3S3RV]

so I wake up this morning feeling sorry for myself cause Ports didn’t win this years final, then I see this picture & realise I’m living in a very weird twilight zone world.


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[TeeKray]

Petrecca has been chubby flat track plodder for more of his career than a gun midfielder thus far. Be a critic of Rozee but let's not rewrite others as superstar players and hard working athletes from day dot while we're at it.

Don't remember Petracca being soft. Rozee will never make it as a midfielder, he'll be doing well to consistently produce as a forward.

 

[ploppy]

so I wake up this morning feeling sorry for myself cause Ports didn’t win this years final, then I see this picture & realise I’m living in a very weird twilight zone world.


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Maybe we need to get choco back...maybe he can build us a Oliver or a petracca out of the players we have..

 

[Chopperdave]

Don't remember Petracca being soft. Rozee will never make it as a midfielder, he'll be doing well to consistently produce as a forward.

Petracca was soft as pudding his first 3-4 years. He couldn't run out games and wasn't busting out of stoppages on the regular until last year.

People were saying he was Colin Sylvia mk2, not the new Dustin Martin.

Rozee won't be a bash and crash mid but he has shown enough in glimpses to make it as a mid with elite evasiveness and burst from stoppages if his body lets him.

 

[edgie]

Gawn is significantly better than Lycett. Oliver is better than Wines (and AFLCA MVP is better than Brownlow, before somebody plays that card). Petracca is significantly better than Boak. Viney is significantly better than Drew.

You honestly think Lycett, Wines, Boak, Drew measures up to Gawn, Oliver, Petracca, Viney?

Obviously not, but not the question.

Wines 2021 is as good as any of them, MVP-Brownlow is just splitting hairs.

Boak, nah I don't rate in big finals, but that's established. Seems like a shift in your opinion however.

It seems that the last two weeks has been 95% around here Helen Lovejoy 'how dare anyone suggest Boak isn't that good!', until last night when most decided 'hey, Boak isn't that good is he?'.

inb4 some sort of Hinkley style deflection to maintain both opinions are correct and righteous.

 

[edgie]

Don't remember Petracca being soft. Rozee will never make it as a midfielder, he'll be doing well to consistently produce as a forward.

Then you aren't remembering correctly.

Disappeared against good teams and didn't even make contests to shirk.

 

[Macca19]

Don't remember Petracca being soft. Rozee will never make it as a midfielder, he'll be doing well to consistently produce as a forward.

2 years ago Petracca was overweight, unfit, looked like he was running through mud each week and having a negligible influence on the game, was canned by the media all year.

Rozee will never be a Petracca type, nor should we really expect him to be. Different body shapes. Doesn't mean he can't have a similar impact

 

[Powerade 08]

You guys are in for a shock when Gray, Boak, Jonas, etc. retire.

Rozee needs to build enough core strength to hit a 5 meter handball before he can try playing midfield.

 

[edgie]

I tend to agree with this, I think our top 10 players are good (clearly, two prelims and two top two finishes) but in comparison to other top 4 teams they are pretty average. Our depth players are pretty on par with other top 4 teams if not better imo, but it’s the top end talent that usually win you games and that’s where we lack.

Ollie is the only player in our club that could go to any team and be in the best 5 players at any given club. Like Boak, Amon, Allir, Houston, Dixon etc wouldn’t be in Melbourne’s, WB, Geelongs even Brisbane’s top 5 players.

This has been a issue with us for many years though, our leaders fail.

Our best are good enough, but the head fails.

Wines probably had the best first quarter for the team in the prelim, but it was still nothing on say, Roger James fighting a lone hand early in 2004, or Dixon early in 2017.

Bonner was possibly BOG in the prelim. There's about 20 players that night that should feel embarrassed about that, no disrespect to Riley, only compliments.

 

[edgie]

You guys are in for a shock when Gray, Boak, Jonas, etc. retire.

Rozee needs to build enough core strength to hit a 5 meter handball before he can try playing midfield.

Yeah, he can't handball, is actually terrible. I haven't played footy for ten year and I am certain I can execute a handpass in traffic better than he can.

 

[Chachi]

Gawn is significantly better than Lycett. Oliver is better than Wines (and AFLCA MVP is better than Brownlow, before somebody plays that card). Petracca is significantly better than Boak. Viney is significantly better than Drew.

I think we've got a defence and forward line good enough to win a flag. Our midfield doesn't measure up. Wines and Boak are A graders, but they're not A+ like Petracca or Bontempelli, and they don't have enough help.

With the exception of Gawn I disagree.
none of those guys are ‘significantly’ better and Wines and Oliver are pretty even.

 

[Macca19]

Our best chance for a flag should have been 2015 when our midfield group had that similar age/experience/high draft level to what Melbourne has this year and to what Richmond had in their first premiership, what West Coast had, Hawthorn had etc.

White 27
Ryder 27
Gray 26
Boak 26
Ebert 25
Hartlett 24
Polec 22
Moore 22
Wingard 21
Wines 20

8 first rounders plus a superstar in Gray all in the sweet spot. Throw in Schulz and Monfries up forward, Carlile, Trengove, Pittard, Broadbent down back. That was the year.

Instead we spent the year losing to Brisbane (4 wins out of previous 29 games), Carlton (2 wins in last 15) and a coachless Adelaide to not even make the finals.

Rozee, Duursma, Butters, Drew could be our next premiership core, but they need another 3-4 years and another 2-3 first rate early picked mids around them

 

[backtozero]

so I wake up this morning feeling sorry for myself cause Ports didn’t win this years final, then I see this picture & realise I’m living in a very weird twilight zone world.


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Nothing twilight zone about it. Kane has always placed the worth of individual personalities higher than the fortunes of the football club itself.

His loyalty goes to Choco, KT, Ken Hinkley and anyone else that helped him in his professional career first and Port winning a premiership at all costs somewhere far off in the distance.

 

[Us against the rest]

Petrecca has been chubby flat track plodder for more of his career than a gun midfielder thus far. Be a critic of Rozee but let's not rewrite others as superstar players and hard working athletes from day dot while we're at it.

I think it gets down to the coach and the ideals and non negotiables put in place.

A Melbourne player Gawn I think, said last night that it was a closeness on field, a strong bond on the field not so much off the field. You could also see after the game that those players were playing for their coach.

 

[TeeKray]

I just don't see the Rozee thing. I think he's Daniel Motlop tier. Some great skills, capable of some amazing things, even a match winner on his day. But he's not about to become a midfield weapon and he's probably going to battle to be consistent even as a forward.

I hold much higher hopes for Butters, Duursma and even Bergman as midfielders.

 

[edgie]

The best teams don't need their stars to star all time as well.

Gawn was contributor last night, not in BOG lists.

And they still won by 12 goals.

Tredders averaged nearly 4 goals a game in 2004, but only kicked one in the grand final that we won by 40 points.

 

[FishingRick04]

Bont, Treloar, Smith, Libba, Hunter, Macrae all shat the bed and barely touched it once Melbourne got their run on for that 15 minutes period in the third.

A bit like our midfielder

 

[FishingRick04]

Imagine pinning your hopes on Marshmallow Rozee to somehow magically transform himself into a Petracca like presence.

It can happen, just a slight attitude correction. Butters before injury was a massive midfield attacking influence.

The more I think of it over paying for a YEO would be worth it.

 

[edgie]

I just don't see the Rozee thing. I think he's Daniel Motlop tier. Some great skills, capable of some amazing things, even a match winner on his day. But he's not about to become a midfield weapon and he's probably going to battle to be consistent even as a forward.

I hold much higher hopes for Butters, Duursma and even Bergman as midfielders.

It's weird to think we've already stamped X as a winger for life, but we still talk of developing everyone else as something else.

 

[Byrons Firen]

Bont, Treloar, Smith, Libba, Hunter, Macrae all shat the bed and barely touched it once Melbourne got their run on for that 15 minutes period in the third.

He was targeted very early in the game. While Pickett's stats may not have been huge he laid a couple of heavy hits on their mids.

Watching him in defence I thought geez he's only going to get better and better. No wonder they took him at 12(?).

Reckon Melb will win a couple more flags. Our window has closed imo. We're nowhere near the Demons.