AFL Grand Final Grand Final 2021 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs - Sat, Sept 25 - 5:15pm AWST / 7:15pm AEST

[Avalor]

Melbourne were scary tonight.

Kidding ourselves if we think we’re any chance next year. Retire JK and Hurn and move on.

The Bulldogs hit the wall in the third, and just stopped dead. All that traveling beforehand, what was it - 4 states or something - took its toll.
And people say getting on a plane every 2 weeks hasn't any effect!

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Hated seeing an unused sub being given a premiership medal.

 

[Westend]

Both sides midfields possess the ability and the structures to clear the ball out of heavy traffic on another level to us.

Petracca, Oliver and Bont with strength. Libba is slippery as, sure his hands are questionable but he is phenomenally fast at getting the ball on the boot too.

I just can't see any of our mids bar fully fit Yeo and Boots of 3 years ago able to stand anywhere near the level of heat in the kitchen that was on display last night.

We're miles off I think with Melbourne at the start of their peak.

Our spine is good our defence is strong ....thats one thing we have over the bullies who have a crap defence against marking forwards...we have barrass gov and edwards coming through....so still strong ...Forward line JK Darling Allen Ryan Rioli Cripps good......we need a backup ruck for Nicnat ASAP

But the issue is the midfield......Yeo Kelly Shuey Sheed Gaff Redden ...too slow and no young guns coming through....lets hope edwards can develop but he looks like a winger for me not a beast like Petra or Bonts

Out of that lot I would rate Yeo as our most dynamic mid due to his marking ability and size to match the Petra/bonts but can Yeo go on and be in the best 3/4 mids in the comp ???

Kelly is good but looks to comfortable for me...needs to be challenged to go to the next level....atm he is a top 20 mid needs to break into the top 10

Shuey....needs to step up and be a captain and stop getting himself injured for the good of the team

Sheed Gaff.....slow leg speed and both need to learn to hold a tackle

Redden....good but getting on has footy smarts but lacks leg speed ...good honest footballer but will no be part of our next flag run

We need a jet young midfielder in the 20-24 bracket coming through....unfortunately we don't at this stage

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Our spine is good our defence is strong ....thats one thing we have over the bullies who have a crap defence against marking forwards...we have barrass gov and edwards coming through....so still strong ...Forward line JK Darling Allen Ryan Rioli Cripps good......we need a backup ruck for Nicnat ASAP

But the issue is the midfield......Yeo Kelly Shuey Sheed Gaff Redden ...too slow and no young guns coming through....lets hope edwards can develop but he looks like a winger for me not a beast like Petra or Bonts

Out of that lot I would rate Yeo as our most dynamic mid due to his marking ability and size to match the Petra/bonts but can Yeo go on and be in the best 3/4 mids in the comp ???

Kelly is good but looks to comfortable for me...needs to be challenged to go to the next level....atm he is a top 20 mid needs to break into the top 10

Shuey....needs to step up and be a captain and stop getting himself injured for the good of the team

Sheed Gaff.....slow leg speed and both need to learn to hold a tackle

Redden....good but getting on has footy smarts but lacks leg speed ...good honest footballer but will no be part of our next flag run

We need a jet young midfielder in the 20-24 bracket coming through....unfortunately we don't at this stage

Is our spine actually good anymore?

Gov looks like he’s enjoying his payday and little more, Barrass leaks goals, Kennedy is ageing and Darling only rocks up when he feels like it.

 

[Clubs are trumps]

Alright got to get something off my chest: as nice as it is to see Demons win the premiership, the eastern staters can cry me a ******* river that the Melbourne players won it in Perth away from home. EVERY non-Victorian team that has won a flag has had to do it away from their supporter base. No-one cares about that do they? And because of the corrupt MCC/Vic government deal, the non-victorian teams will never win a Grand Final on their home deck.

This bitter-sweet narrative is completely ignorant of whats meant to be a national competition and shows how entitled Victorians have become with always having everything their way.

 

[WCE_phil]

For all the s**t he cops it blows my mind.

Darling is a 191cm guy playing CHF against guys that are as fast as him, regularly more agile and significantly taller than him.

8th in the league for contested marks and still kicked 42 goals as second Banana.

Sure he had an average middle of the season but was definitely carrying an injury. Seriously don't understand what people expect. Has kicked 450 goals in his Career as a CHF and if he plays another 4 years likely ends up on 600. Basically like Brereton playing with Dunstall ahead of him. Seriously WTF do people want. Playing undersized in the hardest position on the ground in a side that got destroyed through the middle for most of the season.

Oh and he chops out in the ruck in the forward line....

If he played in the 80's or 90's he would have put up ridiculous numbers.

 

[ep2018]

Hated seeing an unused sub being given a premiership medal.

I'm surprised it wasn't used in the last quarter when the game was already won.

 

[ziad]

The Bulldogs hit the wall in the third, and just stopped dead. All that traveling beforehand, what was it - 4 states or something - took its toll.
And people say getting on a plane every 2 weeks hasn't any effect!

Picked the tankers months ago. It was always going to be a non contest.

 

[ziad]

Is our spine actually good anymore?

Gov looks like he’s enjoying his payday and little more, Barrass leaks goals, Kennedy is ageing and Darling only rocks up when he feels like it.

We are aging and lack the impactful quality of others. In addition Shuey is on his last injured legs. Only the fanboys see a miracle coming led by WAFL strugglers like XON and Waterman.
We need to ruthlessly cul, trade and draft. And get a team that is fit.

 

[WCE_phil]

Again love to see someone put Kennedy at FF and see what other post 2000's CHF's goals and mark stats would have been like.

The closest Comparison is Scott Lucas

Scott Lucas

Age

46

Ht

192cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.5

4star

K

12.4

5star

HB

3.1

3star

M

6.0

5star

T

1.9

4star

G

1.9

5star

No current season stats available

D

17.2

5star

K

12.4

5star

HB

4.8

4star

M

6.6

5star

T

0.6

3star

G

4.4

5star

at Essendon playing in front of Lloyd. Pretty ******* similar. Lucas a few more possessions, Darling more goals. The only time Lucas came out and had dominant seasons was 2006-2007 when Lloyd was injured for almost all of 2006 and in 2007 they were basically interchanging positions. (the Lloyd,Lucas combo was amazing in 2007 yet even still added a total of 123 goals for the team)

Darling and Kennedy combined goals kicked by year

2021 83
2020 64 (account for less games and shorter time played and it's basically 2021 stats)
2019 108
2018 91 (injury affected)
2017 112 (injury affected)
2016 125
2015 106 (injury affected)

WTF more do people want.

This is all in an era with zone defences, one of them being double teamed at pretty much all times and teams playing a spare out the back to stop us.

 

[Mulldogg]

Melbourne playing Lever, May and Petty in their backline. I know we often joke that we’re too tall with our lineups but could we play Barrass, HEdwards and Gov in the same side?

Gov the Lever type floater. Other two more lockdown defenders.

 

[WCE_phil]

Melbourne playing Lever, May and Petty in their backline. I know we often joke that we’re too tall with our lineups but could we play Barrass, HEdwards and Gov in the same side?

Gov the Lever type floater. Other two more lockdown defenders.

It can be done but you then need to basically call time on Shep and Hurn. Due to being slow and shep playing taller than he is. Knowing the family well (more the Marsh side of the family) I think if Shep wasn't contracted for next year and already had a premiership he would be hanging up the boots with the concussion issues.

The team needs more run and carry from defence. If Cole is your run and carry defender I don't care if you have the best tall and midsize defenders of all time surrounding him then in the current game you are going to get burnt for being too slow. We need huge preseasons from Ryan and Rioli as the half forwards are what link defence to attack. Ryan also needs to be basically sat down and told to get up the ground or when is is playing forward if there is a Key forward going up for the ball he needs to stay down and shark the pack. Goes for way too many marks in pack contests.

 

[frenchconnection]

Right. This was probably just about Gawn's worst game of the season. Had absolutely no impact was so ever in the first 3 quarters and the turning point of the match was when he was actually taken off. I'm a pretty big Gawn fan, but he was just nowhere near it tonight.

Think Gawn played his GF last week when he was just superb and the old boy just couldn't reproduce it 2 weeks in a row.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Thought Gawn was pretty good at the ground. Wasn’t dominant but more than contributed.

Jackson is a special talent.

 

[THE A5]

For all the sh*t he cops it blows my mind.

Darling is a 191cm guy playing CHF against guys that are as fast as him, regularly more agile and significantly taller than him.

8th in the league for contested marks and still kicked 42 goals as second Banana.

Sure he had an average middle of the season but was definitely carrying an injury. Seriously don't understand what people expect. Has kicked 450 goals in his Career as a CHF and if he plays another 4 years likely ends up on 600. Basically like Brereton playing with Dunstall ahead of him. Seriously WTF do people want. Playing undersized in the hardest position on the ground in a side that got destroyed through the middle for most of the season.

Oh and he chops out in the ruck in the forward line....

If he played in the 80's or 90's he would have put up ridiculous numbers.

Jacks hard to stop when he is in form. Taller opponents struggle to keep up with as he has a solid tank on him and has burt to get him seperation. Mid size defenders struggle on him as he is too strong. That said JD is a confidence player and turns to water if things aren’t going his way.

also towards the end of the year when we started having decent spurts of wuick ball movement, he looked very threatening.

 

[WCE_phil]

Jacks hard to stop when he is in form. Taller opponents struggle to keep up with as he has a solid tank on him and has burt to get him seperation. Mid size defenders struggle on him as he is too strong. That said JD is a confidence player and turns to water if things aren’t going his way.

also towards the end of the year when we started having decent spurts of wuick ball movement, he looked very threatening.

Exactly, correct the issue of D50 to F50 and he is dominant.

 

[THE A5]

Exactly, correct the issue of D50 to F50 and he is dominant.

This is why I’m low key excited about Willie back. Like Shuey he knows when to take the game on and more times than not when he does it, the game really opens up for us. In those good years Willie was doing what Jetta was doing but higher up the ground

 

[Mulldogg]

Far out. Melbourne with a great age profile for their premiership team. 24yrs 306 days (compared to WBD at 26yrs 100 days).

Michael Hibberd

14

Michael Hibberd

Age

34

Ht

186cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.4

5star

K

13.1

5star

HB

8.3

5star

M

5.2

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

326.6

4star

D

16.8

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.8

4star

M

4.8

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

326.6

5star

D

19.2

5star

K

11.6

4star

HB

7.6

5star

M

5.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

the only player over 30. Two 19 year olds (Jackson and Bowey) and three 20 year olds (Rivers, Pickett & Jordan).

If they can keep that list together and healthy then they’re going to thereabouts when the whips are cracking for the next few seasons I would have thought.

 

[Rowan18]

Far out. Melbourne with a great age profile for their premiership team. 24yrs 306 days (compared to WBD at 26yrs 100 days).

Michael Hibberd the only player over 30. Two 19 year olds (Jackson and Bowey) and three 20 year olds (Rivers, Pickett & Jordan).

If they can keep that list together and healthy then they’re going to thereabouts when the whips are cracking for the next few seasons I would have thought.

I wouldn't be surprised to see themone back in the pack next year. A lot of their dominance came from favourable rule changes and elite fitness, so teams will catch up on both.

I also suspect they won't handle the off season well, maybe getting a bit full of themselves like we did in 2019

 

[kane249]

Losing Burgess will be a big blow for them

 

[The Passenger]

All I can say is that tanking pays.

Tanking, AFL bailouts, AFL assisted coaching appointment, wrist slap for said tanking. That's not a bad combination to make a club competitive.

TBH don't begrudge the long suffering fans. From my time living in Melbourne they were one of the easier fan bases to work games, but that was potentially due to widespread demoralisation.

 

[FKASC]

Did the tanking play any real role in their win though? They’ve basically shed or lost all of the players they gained during that period, which I suspect was part of why they were so successful this year. They had to scrub out the stench of the last 15 years.

In saying that I dunno if 2019 was tanking but that bottoming out played a massive role in their flag. That draft was integral

I would not care in the slightest if we finished second last next year if it meant adding Jackson/Rivers/Pickett to the team.

sometimes bottoming out temporarily is exactly what’s needed

 

[ioppolo]

Did the tanking play any real role in their win though? They’ve basically shed or lost all of the players they gained during that period, which I suspect was part of why they were so successful this year. They had to scrub out the stench of the last 15 years.

In saying that I dunno if 2019 was tanking but that bottoming out played a massive role in their flag. That draft was integral

I would not care in the slightest if we finished second last next year if it meant adding Jackson/Rivers/Pickett to the team.

sometimes bottoming out temporarily is exactly what’s needed

We bottomed out and added Gaff, Darling and Lycett the next draft

 

[FKASC]

We bottomed out and added Gaff, Darling and Lycett the next draft

Exactly

 

[DickDunn]

I also suspect they won't handle the off season well, maybe getting a bit full of themselves like we did in 2019

Our players weren’t full of themselves necessarily, they were just too satisfied with winning one flag. Maybe it was the emotion of winning such a close game, maybe it was the travel burden. Either way, they weren’t able to find the motivation and self-belief needed to win multiple flags.

Read some of the post-game quotes from not just Melbourne’s players but their coaches and officials too. They’re hungry for more flags and they know they’re good enough and young enough to do it. That’s not necessarily overconfidence, just an accurate assessment of where they’re at. The contrast couldn’t be sharper