Review Grand Final, 2023 - Collingwood vs. Brisbane Lions

[3KZ is Football]

No, he didn't. Ranked equal fourth in intercept marking with Starcevich behind Harris, Jack and Keidean when looking at total marks or fourth (could call it third considering the low number of games Joyce played) in average intercept marks behind Harris, Jack and Joyce.

Ok - so Lester was second for “Intercepts” behind Harris Andrews and second behind Harris again for total “Marks”. A great year as a defender! All the more so as Ryan played the “Quarterback” role, coordinating exits and running into space to provide an avenue.

As for tackling, our defence was ranked,
Coleman 2.7 per game season average,
Gardiner 2.5
Lester 2.0
Wilmot 1.65
Starcevich 1.54
McKenna 1.46
Andrews 1.19
Joyce 0.40

Lester is best 22 and will be in our starting side Rd.1 2024.

 

[CarterS]

 

[MSB ROYS]

Don’t fool yourself. Players were fit in the 1980’s. The 1986 pre-season that Parkin put Fitzroy through was a gruelling one and it paid off. Watch more games from that era and then you can talk from a position of knowledge.

What has definitely improved since the 1980s is injury diagnosis and recovery.

 

[Voss the boss]

Don’t fool yourself. Players were fit in the 1980’s. The 1986 pre-season that Parkin put Fitzroy through was a gruelling one and it paid off. Watch more games from that era and then you can talk from a position of knowledge.

Pretty sure this is what made Bernie Q retire into 1987. Parkin spoke to us about this one day and he regrated not tailoring this a bit more for the great man!

 

[3KZ is Football]

Pretty sure this is what made Bernie Q retire into 1987. Parkin spoke to us about this one day and he regrated not tailoring this a bit more for the great man!

True. Quinlan said the same thing. Parkin flogged the Lions in the 1986 Pre-season and they bounced out of the blocks once the season had started. They were super fit.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Despite the loss enjoyed the game and weekend in Melbourne. We’re not too far off and will start pretty strong next year. As much as I enjoyed the experience of going to the game I don’t think I’ll go back to a GF in the future. I like sitting in comfort - upper tier, centre wing, undercover. Paying $500 a ticket to sit in the pocket at ground level with fans jumping up blocking my view doesn’t seem worth it. I’m just glad I wasn’t at the sunny end of the ground. Next year I’ll watch from a pub somewhere local.

Funny how things pan out.
I'm use to being lower tier at the Gabba, close to the action.
At the G we had seats top tier ,just under the replay screen city end. A little dissapointed when I first found out. Too far back. But we weren't as high as some seats , because of the screen, so about 10 or so rows forward than the section next to us.
Couldn't of been much better .
And compared to the last time I was at the G , when we were lower level under the middle tier, this time was incredible in regards to seeing the whole field .
I think upper tier at the G is better than at the Gabba, you feel you are still so close to the oval.
I did feel for those stuck staring into the sun all day.

I'm the same , that was my time at a grand final, great experience , but next time yep at home with a few friends I think or at the pub if we are in it.

On another note copped some shit from the neighbours daughter , she was rubbing it in big time, bit of carry on, over the top.
I said what are you doing , why are you a dirty pies supporter , her reply, My boyfriend goes for Collingwood, Collingwood are winners , Brisbane suck there sh@t.
Was all in good fun , so she thought.
But between you guys and me , I can't stand people jumping on the winner and making out there a true supporter .
Poor form imo.
Not bitter though,
Much.

 

[Gadzorks]

Before the game I was talking to a family of four - they had three tickets. They got one child, who had noise cancelling headphones on, to have a meltdown at the gate and run in under the turnstile, then they showed the three tickets and entered.

The min pay casual on the gate let it go.

He felt it was ok to sneak an extra in as they had been scammed $600 for a set of four tickets, and paid $500 for the three in a second purchase.

Wonder how many many people actually get in for free.

 

[Gadzorks]

Midfield were flogged all dn madeay. Was Neale's shoulder right?... not sure. If he was crook, he shouldn't have played..or sub should have been made earlier.

The crook brownlow medalist was better than the alternatives.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Brisbane whacked us twice in season and went close on GF

You would have beaten any other team in GF

Classy team and coach

Had many interactions with Bris fans at the G and post-match - all gracious

And you broke Carlton hearts

Hope to play you in next year’s GF - big chance you will be in it

 

[ant22]

I come in piece. The comments by Ipswich Pie certainly don't reflect most of our supporters. Charlie's hit was slightly late and downfield was correctly given. Nothing else to see here. Charlie is a star and I love watching him play(except against us)

Your supporters have been extremely gracious in defeat and your team was terrific on Saturday. It was great to get once back on you but I understand the pain of losing the close ones. The last thing you need is pickles like that talking Sh!t.

Good luck in 2024. Your team play the game the way it should be played.

 

[twhowler]

Here’s some better memories View attachment 1819647View attachment 1819648

was this the walk to the g from one of the fitzory pubs?

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

I come in piece. The comments by Ipswich Pie certainly don't reflect most of our supporters. Charlie's hit was slightly late and downfield was correctly given. Nothing else to see here. Charlie is a star and I love watching him play(except against us)

Your supporters have been extremely gracious in defeat and your team was terrific on Saturday. It was great to get once back on you but I understand the pain of losing the close ones. The last thing you need is pickles like that talking Sh!t.

Good luck in 2024. Your team play the game the way it should be played.

Thanks mate, all good , I can honestly say all the legit passionite pie supporters I know personally are great .
Great experience to watch the game live and soak up the Melb. atmosphere for a few days.

Cheers.

 

[twhowler]

Okay final edition of my ripped- off segment that nobody cares about except me.

THE GOOD

WE HUNG IN THERE - didn't always play well but even when pies had momentum and incredible crowd noise we kept coming back. we had a long period of being on top in the last quarter after looking out to it early.

WE WERE SKILLED UNDER PRESSURE - some of those goals were just phenomenal. Bailey. Linc. Clugga's pass to Daniher at the end and evasiveness before. Cameron's 45m left foot snap.

REPUTATIONS WERE ENHANCED - Clugga was excellent after a poor first quarter. Daniher apart from one bad miss was very good, competed hard, great presence of mind to bang that one in at the end. Coleman until he was gassed. Harris' last quarter was phenomenal. I thought Neale was really good late as well - our two skippers lifting to give us a chance to win.

LOSING A CLOSE ONE - so many examples of getting smacked in a granny and the damage it does. this will hurt but it keeps us confident that we are good enough, which i think is important for this group

THE BAD

OUTRUN - so much for 29 degrees helping us - i just think collingwood ran harder when it mattered. Chopping off options to swtich, and always being within a metre for players on a lead. We so often give a player that crucial 2-3m. Allowing it to happen when they played 2 rucks as well. A big part was...

THE WINGS - thoroughly outplayed here. It wasn't that either of their wings destroyed us but we got very little from ours while Sidebottom and J Daicos both played key roles for them. Fletcher better for the run, no pre-season. Berry... more to say later

SOME OF THE BIG MOMENTS - this has been a theme according to players. Some of the worst one - misses in the last quarter from Daniher / Hipwood / Coleman. We were well on top at this stage. The Berry 50m. The Cameron downfield (gave them breathing space when we were hemming them in). Berry taking too long to kick deep in to forward line and getting half caught. About 10 moments in that centre clearance after Cameron's last goal. Both sides had moments all day but so many critical moments we fluffed in the last quarter, it was too much too overcome

COMMENTARY ON HOW GOOD THE PIES ARE IN CLOSE GAMES INCLUDING GF Sure they shut down the game well against GWS. Very well. Against us when they tried to shut down with 4 minutes to go, we managed multiple entries, a goal to daniher, and then 2 more entries in the last 90 seconds, one of which should have been a free kick from a legging 55m out. We created good opportunities. The pies could not shut us down.

THE UGLY

SOME OF THE UMPIRING clugga got a very dodgy 50m which helped us stay in touch. Mistakes happen. But that advantage call was rubbish and totally against the earlier time we were not allowed to take advantage. And the too high frees to daicos were a daicos. blatant ducking and arm flicking which was supposed to be targeted. Mistakes happen from all but those were just blatant errors the umpires should not have made

RED TIME this is ugly not bad because it was such a similar situation to the Mebourne game - blindly kicking it long to collingwood ruckmen. The last few minutes of the first quarter was just so bad. We looked bereft of ideas. Nobody taking responsibility to short-pass and hang on to the ball.

OUR USE OF THE SUB pies were down a sub already. How could we not do something earlier given how hot it was? Okay Lyons is not a runner. But get him in the guts, he was fresh on such a hot day. We continue to be the most conservative and worst user of the sub in the league. Once the pies had gone tall i would have had Fort as sub. Could have made such a difference in the last quarter - give him some centre bounces, stretch the pies by popping oscar in the goal square.

INABILITY TO EVER CHANGE THINGS UP again such a bugbear. Berry was doing nothing at half time. So give him a tagging job on one of the wingers and at least get a draw there. Rayner couldn't get in the game - isolate him at full forward for 10 minutes. Bailey had been brilliant in the first 35 mins then gone quiet, so what could we do with him? McKenna very quiet could he get a go on the wing? Shift ah chee back who is quiet in the forward line / wing? We just don't throw around the magnets. We never try to wrongfoot the opposition.

WHERE TO FROM HERE

Get Ashcroft back - that will help.

Doedee - i think he could be perfect, good disposal and intercept mark. Payne and Andrews the true tall timber.

Get a good early fixture - given they are both coming off knees!

Get McQualter - or someone of that ilk. Not throwing the baby out with the bathwater but we need to get better in our match-day coaching. My maxim on assistant coaches is: if no opposition side would ever consider one of your assistants as a senior coach, you need a senior 2IC.

Maximise our assets - Rayner get fitter. Bailey figure out how to get him involved more. Coleman get fitter. If these 3 players are involved in any given play it's highly likely to result in a score. It just doesn't happen enough.

Get fitter as a side - we need to inject that relentless running in to our running players. Sharp could be a real weapon too. I think he showed good signs.

GLASS IS HALF FULL

Way better to have made it than another year of no GF.

Pies have a lot of 30+ veterans who were key to winning. They should not scare us too much.

Giants and blues could be dangerous - it's also hard for them now with a top 6 draw and having to start all over again

Dees still don't really have a forward line

Some sides will improve and top 2 won't be easy.

But our finals record over the past 2 years is now 4-2. Won one at the mcg and lost another there by 4 points. We have built belief. Need some luck, especially on the injury front which has been kind to us lately.

Biggest looming issue is no gabba. But a jammed full brighton homes arena might be pretty hard to win at for opposition too

 

[MSB ROYS]

I come in piece. The comments by Ipswich Pie certainly don't reflect most of our supporters. Charlie's hit was slightly late and downfield was correctly given. Nothing else to see here. Charlie is a star and I love watching him play(except against us)

Your supporters have been extremely gracious in defeat and your team was terrific on Saturday. It was great to get once back on you but I understand the pain of losing the close ones. The last thing you need is pickles like that talking Sh!t.

Good luck in 2024. Your team play the game the way it should be played.

Thanks for keeping it classy. Over my working life and playing football for many years I have met many Collingwood supporters who have become close friends and associates. All are great people and none of them abused me post game.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Okay final edition of my ripped- off segment that nobody cares about except me.

THE GOOD

WE HUNG IN THERE - didn't always play well but even when pies had momentum and incredible crowd noise we kept coming back. we had a long period of being on top in the last quarter after looking out to it early.

WE WERE SKILLED UNDER PRESSURE - some of those goals were just phenomenal. Bailey. Linc. Clugga's pass to Daniher at the end and evasiveness before. Cameron's 45m left foot snap.

REPUTATIONS WERE ENHANCED - Clugga was excellent after a poor first quarter. Daniher apart from one bad miss was very good, competed hard, great presence of mind to bang that one in at the end. Coleman until he was gassed. Harris' last quarter was phenomenal. I thought Neale was really good late as well - our two skippers lifting to give us a chance to win.

LOSING A CLOSE ONE - so many examples of getting smacked in a granny and the damage it does. this will hurt but it keeps us confident that we are good enough, which i think is important for this group

THE BAD

OUTRUN - so much for 29 degrees helping us - i just think collingwood ran harder when it mattered. Chopping off options to swtich, and always being within a metre for players on a lead. We so often give a player that crucial 2-3m. Allowing it to happen when they played 2 rucks as well. A big part was...

THE WINGS - thoroughly outplayed here. It wasn't that either of their wings destroyed us but we got very little from ours while Sidebottom and J Daicos both played key roles for them. Fletcher better for the run, no pre-season. Berry... more to say later

SOME OF THE BIG MOMENTS - this has been a theme according to players. Some of the worst one - misses in the last quarter from Daniher / Hipwood / Coleman. We were well on top at this stage. The Berry 50m. The Cameron downfield (gave them breathing space when we were hemming them in). Berry taking too long to kick deep in to forward line and getting half caught. About 10 moments in that centre clearance after Cameron's last goal. Both sides had moments all day but so many critical moments we fluffed in the last quarter, it was too much too overcome

COMMENTARY ON HOW GOOD THE PIES ARE IN CLOSE GAMES INCLUDING GF Sure they shut down the game well against GWS. Very well. Against us when they tried to shut down with 4 minutes to go, we managed multiple entries, a goal to daniher, and then 2 more entries in the last 90 seconds, one of which should have been a free kick from a legging 55m out. We created good opportunities. The pies could not shut us down.

THE UGLY

SOME OF THE UMPIRING clugga got a very dodgy 50m which helped us stay in touch. Mistakes happen. But that advantage call was rubbish and totally against the earlier time we were not allowed to take advantage. And the too high frees to daicos were a daicos. blatant ducking and arm flicking which was supposed to be targeted. Mistakes happen from all but those were just blatant errors the umpires should not have made

RED TIME this is ugly not bad because it was such a similar situation to the Mebourne game - blindly kicking it long to collingwood ruckmen. The last few minutes of the first quarter was just so bad. We looked bereft of ideas. Nobody taking responsibility to short-pass and hang on to the ball.

OUR USE OF THE SUB pies were down a sub already. How could we not do something earlier given how hot it was? Okay Lyons is not a runner. But get him in the guts, he was fresh on such a hot day. We continue to be the most conservative and worst user of the sub in the league. Once the pies had gone tall i would have had Fort as sub. Could have made such a difference in the last quarter - give him some centre bounces, stretch the pies by popping oscar in the goal square.

INABILITY TO EVER CHANGE THINGS UP again such a bugbear. Berry was doing nothing at half time. So give him a tagging job on one of the wingers and at least get a draw there. Rayner couldn't get in the game - isolate him at full forward for 10 minutes. Bailey had been brilliant in the first 35 mins then gone quiet, so what could we do with him? McKenna very quiet could he get a go on the wing? Shift ah chee back who is quiet in the forward line / wing? We just don't throw around the magnets. We never try to wrongfoot the opposition.

WHERE TO FROM HERE

Get Ashcroft back - that will help.

Doedee - i think he could be perfect, good disposal and intercept mark. Payne and Andrews the true tall timber.

Get a good early fixture - given they are both coming off knees!

Get McQualter - or someone of that ilk. Not throwing the baby out with the bathwater but we need to get better in our match-day coaching. My maxim on assistant coaches is: if no opposition side would ever consider one of your assistants as a senior coach, you need a senior 2IC.

Maximise our assets - Rayner get fitter. Bailey figure out how to get him involved more. Coleman get fitter. If these 3 players are involved in any given play it's highly likely to result in a score. It just doesn't happen enough.

Get fitter as a side - we need to inject that relentless running in to our running players. Sharp could be a real weapon too. I think he showed good signs.

GLASS IS HALF FULL

Way better to have made it than another year of no GF.

Pies have a lot of 30+ veterans who were key to winning. They should not scare us too much.

Giants and blues could be dangerous - it's also hard for them now with a top 6 draw and having to start all over again

Dees still don't really have a forward line

Some sides will improve and top 2 won't be easy.

But our finals record over the past 2 years is now 4-2. Won one at the mcg and lost another there by 4 points. We have built belief. Need some luck, especially on the injury front which has been kind to us lately.

Biggest looming issue is no gabba. But a jammed full brighton homes arena might be pretty hard to win at for opposition too

Excellent review.

 

[ZoBlitz]

Just on Pies fans, I did appreciate a couple of them at the ground giving the nod and saying good game to me on the way out of the ground. And I don't think I know any unlikeable Pies fans in real life either.

Almost makes it difficult to hate the club but somehow I'll find a way...

 

[LongLion]

Despite the loss enjoyed the game and weekend in Melbourne. We’re not too far off and will start pretty strong next year. As much as I enjoyed the experience of going to the game I don’t think I’ll go back to a GF in the future. I like sitting in comfort - upper tier, centre wing, undercover. Paying $500 a ticket to sit in the pocket at ground level with fans jumping up blocking my view doesn’t seem worth it. I’m just glad I wasn’t at the sunny end of the ground. Next year I’ll watch from a pub somewhere local.

My thoughts and positioning are the same as yours with the exception we were in full sun in the pocket 16 rows back. Was a great experience but for those $'s next time (there will be a next time) if I was to get similar tickets they would be going on the open market. This was my 5th Lions GF. 3 up high and 2 down very low.

 

[3KZ is Football]

No, he didn't. Ranked equal fourth in intercept marking with Starcevich behind Harris, Jack and Keidean when looking at total marks or fourth (could call it third considering the low number of games Joyce played) in average intercept marks behind Harris, Jack and Joyce.

Yep. I was confused, because I misinterpreted "Intercepts" as "Intercept Marks" on one site.

AFL Stats - AFL.com.au

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The AFL Site has the following ranking for Season 2023 Intercept Marks:

Andrews 3.5 per game average
Payne 2.4
Joyce 2
Lester 1.9
Coleman 1.7
Starcevich 1.4
Wilmot 0.9
Gardiner 0.8
McKenna 0.7

 

[Dare2beatthebear]

Just on Pies fans, I did appreciate a couple of them at the ground giving the nod and saying good game to me on the way out of the ground. And I don't think I know any unlikeable Pies fans in real life either.

Almost makes it difficult to hate the club but somehow I'll find a way...

Yeh aside from the odd peanut which you are going to get in any supporter base, I agree they were quite gracious.

My 9yo son, who is Lions, was in the AFL members sitting with my old man and brother who are Collingwood. Their bay was basically all Collingwood and when I got around there from where I had been about 5 bays over in standing room, about 15 mins after the game, he was sitting slumped and crying in his seat surrounded by celebrating supporters.

As I waded through the seats with him to leave, and walking back through the concourse multiple Collingwood supporters came over and consoled him. Far cry from when I was a kid going to Bears games at Vic park and getting screamed at by absolute bottom feeders.

 

[3KZ is Football]

AFL Stats - AFL.com.au

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I have bolded the defenders, but in terms of marks, competition wide this season:

Harris Andrews is ranked 6th in the competition with an average of 7.8 marks per game
Ryan Lester

35

Ryan Lester

Age

33

Ht

190cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.7

4star

MG

170.4

3star

D

10.3

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

4.5

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

140.7

3star

D

12.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

0.6

3star

is ranked 29th with an average of 6.3 marks per game
Joe Daniher and Dayne Zorko

15

Dayne Zorko

Age

36

Ht

175cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.4

5star

K

13.2

5star

HB

8.2

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

6.0

5star

MG

440.5

5star

D

14.0

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

5.0

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

5.0

5star

MG

291.0

4star

D

16.4

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

6.6

5star

are equal 47th with an average of 5.9 marks per game
Hipwood, Payne and Rich are equal 78th with an average of 5.4 marks per game
Coleman and Gunston are equal 101st with an average of 5.2 marks per game
Dunkley and Joyce are equal 117th with an average of 5 marks per game
McCluggage is equal 159th with an average of 4.7 marks per game
Starcevich is ranked 182nd with an average of 4.5 marks per game
Neale is ranked 219th with an average of 4.2 marks per game
Wilmot is ranked equal 237th with an average of 4.1 marks per game
McKenna is ranked equal 289th with an average of 3.7 marks per game
Gardiner is ranked equal 401st with an average of 3 marks per game

Lester's sensational numbers, competition wide are a reflection of the strength of his marking game and his willingness to run and make himself available as an avenue when exiting our defensive 50. His strength in the air and sure hands have been a feature of the season and see him well placed to continue to hold down a key role in defense.

 

[Nathan Barley]

AFL Stats - AFL.com.au

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I have bolded the defenders, but in terms of marks, competition wide this season:

Harris Andrews is ranked 6th in the competition with an average of 7.8 marks per game
Ryan Lester is ranked 29th with an average of 6.3 marks per game
Joe Daniher and Dayne Zorko are equal 47th with an average of 5.9 marks per game
Hipwood, Payne and Rich are equal 78th with an average of 5.4 marks per game
Coleman and Gunston are equal 101st with an average of 5.2 marks per game
Dunkley and Joyce are equal 117th with an average of 5 marks per game
McCluggage is equal 159th with an average of 4.7 marks per game
Starcevich is ranked 182nd with an average of 4.5 marks per game
Neale is ranked 219th with an average of 4.2 marks per game
Wilmot is ranked equal 237th with an average of 4.1 marks per game
McKenna is ranked equal 289th with an average of 3.7 marks per game
Gardiner is ranked equal 401st with an average of 3 marks per game

Lester's sensational numbers, competition wide are a reflection of the strength of his marking game and his willingness to run and make himself available as an avenue when exiting our defensive 50. His strength in the air and sure hands have been a feature of the season and see him well placed to continue to hold down a key role in defense.

A for effort 3KZ

 

[Nuggo]

Interesting theory about the final 666 warning resulting in a throw up favouring Cox.

 

[JasRulz63]

Interesting theory about the final 666 warning resulting in a throw up favouring Cox.

I've always wondered if there was only ~10-15 seconds on the clock in a 1 kick game, whether you'd concede a 6-6-6 warning (provided you hadn't already) in case the umpire stuffs up the bounce and wastes you valuable seconds.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Interesting theory about the final 666 warning resulting in a throw up favouring Cox.

It's not so much about it favouring Cox; it's about the ball coming down in a predictable spot and hence be easier to set up for defensively and/or swamp the ball.

 

[Toffee Lion]

Just on Pies fans, I did appreciate a couple of them at the ground giving the nod and saying good game to me on the way out of the ground. And I don't think I know any unlikeable Pies fans in real life either.

Almost makes it difficult to hate the club but somehow I'll find a way...

I'll stand by that the worst experiences I've ever had at games in Melbourne have been from North & Doggies fans.

Not sure how/why, maybe it's just been coincidences but never had any issues at games featuring bigger clubs.

Of course this is only my personal experience and the idiots i've encountered are not a reflection of an entire fanbase.