Review Grand Final, 2023 - Collingwood vs. Brisbane Lions

[Viceregal]

.Good luck in 2024. Your team play the game the way it should be played.

D d d d did you just imply we were
... ... ... Geelong? gasps

 

[CarterS]

Have any umpires reps or anyone from AFL said anything about the advantage call?

 

[ucantbseri]

Two things, both directly related.

One- we have had an obvious deficiency at HB for years now. Yesterday it came back to bite us, big time. Whoever placed Starc on Hills and LEFT HIM THERE, effectively lost us the game.

Two- the 50m in the last sealed the deal and unfortunately will stay with the offender the rest of his career. It's not acceptable to attempt an impact on the game, when you have had very little, by a bit of fake tough crap.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

Yes the 50m last qtr frees were unforgivable, but in the end they took their chances, Degoey and Sidebottom goals, to win the GF and we couldn’t take ours, Joe from 30m and Hipwood from 50+. So much for blaming an umpiring decision between the arc’s, we had our chances to WIN but failed in a painfully familiar way.
On a positive note it was a great contest, one for the ages. It didn’t look like a typical lions game, they had it on their terms, we needed to be braver at times and more composed at others, red time perhaps.

 

[twhowler]

100% on Daniher. He is a massive positive. I liked that we got him. I liked him in his first year. He frustrated the hell out of me and I then didn't like him. I then liked him again this year and even more now.

Hopefully he has at least 5 more years left minimum.

He was awesome early in his second year (2022). Was clearly not the same player with the shoulder and in hindsight a mistake to keep him out there.

2021 - first full season back for a long time, solid without being spectacular, poor in the finals

2022 - started the year on fire (19 goals in first 6 games), struggled to have as much influence but battled on okay. Good first final, poor second one

2023 - slowish start, great year overall and in AA squad, brilliant first final, solid second one, one of our best few players in the GF despite a poor miss. 10 goals in 3 finals

If you excuse his output from his shoulder injury he played through he has got better every year. He's genuinely one of the better key forwards in the comp right now. Who is ahead of him? Curnow, Larkey, Walker (33yo), Cameron, Allan. Anyone else? Hawkins i would have said yes to before but not anymore. Naughton has stalled. Hogan has been improving.

I wonder what sort of 'age' his body is. He is 30 in March. He had a chronic groin problem that limited him to 15 games over 3 years. But he wasn't playing through injury - that's where players tend to limit their career - think about how beaten-up Jono Brown looked by 30yo (2011).

Daniher has played 177 games and looks to be moving really well. Encouragingly his shuolder doesn't seem affected from 2022. I think he looks like he has a good 3 seasons left at this prime.

But i hope we re-think his ruck role over the pre season. He is one our best assets and we have no replacement for him. He seems to me to have matured as a player so i don't think he needs his ruck time to get him in to the game. He has moved on from the Joe that was struggling so just started to try to take unrealistic speccies and give away free kicks. He can take ruck contests in the forward line.

Think about it this way - which other side risks their best key forward in the ruck?

 

[CarterS]

Just watching the replay - first quarter.

Hipwood really nice goal assist to Lincoln. He wasn't that bad.

I thought we did really well to fight back into the game after being a bit off the pace in the first 10 minutes.

Backline did well and Lester beat Elliot in a really good one on one.

Said a million times but Coleman through the corridor is a game changer. His intercept marking was elite too.

Bailey's goal = GOTY.
Not a single commentator brings up the smother is controversial or should have been a free kick the other way at all.

Accidental high contact against Murphy killed our chance for another goal, went straight up the other end and they generally slowed it down for the rest of the quarter.

Judging by Dunkleys brownlow votes and position in the B&F he is just so underrated for us.

Every time we wanted to switch they were ready.

mihocek able to kick that goal because one of our defenders (hard to see on TV, gardiner?) got wrestled off it way too easily.

Goal on the siren an absolute killer.

mccreery and cox missed gettable goals so probably evens out, quarter time margin about fair.

 

[Macca180]

Okay final edition of my ripped- off segment that nobody cares about except me.

THE GOOD

WE HUNG IN THERE - didn't always play well but even when pies had momentum and incredible crowd noise we kept coming back. we had a long period of being on top in the last quarter after looking out to it early.

WE WERE SKILLED UNDER PRESSURE - some of those goals were just phenomenal. Bailey. Linc. Clugga's pass to Daniher at the end and evasiveness before. Cameron's 45m left foot snap.

REPUTATIONS WERE ENHANCED - Clugga was excellent after a poor first quarter. Daniher apart from one bad miss was very good, competed hard, great presence of mind to bang that one in at the end. Coleman until he was gassed. Harris' last quarter was phenomenal. I thought Neale was really good late as well - our two skippers lifting to give us a chance to win.

LOSING A CLOSE ONE - so many examples of getting smacked in a granny and the damage it does. this will hurt but it keeps us confident that we are good enough, which i think is important for this group

THE BAD

OUTRUN - so much for 29 degrees helping us - i just think collingwood ran harder when it mattered. Chopping off options to swtich, and always being within a metre for players on a lead. We so often give a player that crucial 2-3m. Allowing it to happen when they played 2 rucks as well. A big part was...

THE WINGS - thoroughly outplayed here. It wasn't that either of their wings destroyed us but we got very little from ours while Sidebottom and J Daicos both played key roles for them. Fletcher better for the run, no pre-season. Berry... more to say later

SOME OF THE BIG MOMENTS - this has been a theme according to players. Some of the worst one - misses in the last quarter from Daniher / Hipwood / Coleman. We were well on top at this stage. The Berry 50m. The Cameron downfield (gave them breathing space when we were hemming them in). Berry taking too long to kick deep in to forward line and getting half caught. About 10 moments in that centre clearance after Cameron's last goal. Both sides had moments all day but so many critical moments we fluffed in the last quarter, it was too much too overcome

COMMENTARY ON HOW GOOD THE PIES ARE IN CLOSE GAMES INCLUDING GF Sure they shut down the game well against GWS. Very well. Against us when they tried to shut down with 4 minutes to go, we managed multiple entries, a goal to daniher, and then 2 more entries in the last 90 seconds, one of which should have been a free kick from a legging 55m out. We created good opportunities. The pies could not shut us down.

THE UGLY

SOME OF THE UMPIRING clugga got a very dodgy 50m which helped us stay in touch. Mistakes happen. But that advantage call was rubbish and totally against the earlier time we were not allowed to take advantage. And the too high frees to daicos were a daicos. blatant ducking and arm flicking which was supposed to be targeted. Mistakes happen from all but those were just blatant errors the umpires should not have made

RED TIME this is ugly not bad because it was such a similar situation to the Mebourne game - blindly kicking it long to collingwood ruckmen. The last few minutes of the first quarter was just so bad. We looked bereft of ideas. Nobody taking responsibility to short-pass and hang on to the ball.

OUR USE OF THE SUB pies were down a sub already. How could we not do something earlier given how hot it was? Okay Lyons is not a runner. But get him in the guts, he was fresh on such a hot day. We continue to be the most conservative and worst user of the sub in the league. Once the pies had gone tall i would have had Fort as sub. Could have made such a difference in the last quarter - give him some centre bounces, stretch the pies by popping oscar in the goal square.

INABILITY TO EVER CHANGE THINGS UP again such a bugbear. Berry was doing nothing at half time. So give him a tagging job on one of the wingers and at least get a draw there. Rayner couldn't get in the game - isolate him at full forward for 10 minutes. Bailey had been brilliant in the first 35 mins then gone quiet, so what could we do with him? McKenna very quiet could he get a go on the wing? Shift ah chee back who is quiet in the forward line / wing? We just don't throw around the magnets. We never try to wrongfoot the opposition.

WHERE TO FROM HERE

Get Ashcroft back - that will help.

Doedee - i think he could be perfect, good disposal and intercept mark. Payne and Andrews the true tall timber.

Get a good early fixture - given they are both coming off knees!

Get McQualter - or someone of that ilk. Not throwing the baby out with the bathwater but we need to get better in our match-day coaching. My maxim on assistant coaches is: if no opposition side would ever consider one of your assistants as a senior coach, you need a senior 2IC.

Maximise our assets - Rayner get fitter. Bailey figure out how to get him involved more. Coleman get fitter. If these 3 players are involved in any given play it's highly likely to result in a score. It just doesn't happen enough.

Get fitter as a side - we need to inject that relentless running in to our running players. Sharp could be a real weapon too. I think he showed good signs.

GLASS IS HALF FULL

Way better to have made it than another year of no GF.

Pies have a lot of 30+ veterans who were key to winning. They should not scare us too much.

Giants and blues could be dangerous - it's also hard for them now with a top 6 draw and having to start all over again

Dees still don't really have a forward line

Some sides will improve and top 2 won't be easy.

But our finals record over the past 2 years is now 4-2. Won one at the mcg and lost another there by 4 points. We have built belief. Need some luck, especially on the injury front which has been kind to us lately.

Biggest looming issue is no gabba. But a jammed full brighton homes arena might be pretty hard to win at for opposition too

great review.

to be fair Hipwoods too high free was a load of shit also. He just sprayed the shot on goal.

 

[Happy_Neale]

Whats with this Collingwood nuffie going through and reacting to old posts

 

[Nunez]

Whats with this Collingwood nuffie going through and reacting to old posts

Ocram69 is a closet Lions fan.

 

[CarterS]

Whats with this Collingwood nuffie going through and reacting to old posts

Very passive aggressive.

 

[BuntonRules]

Whats with this Collingwood nuffie going through and reacting to old posts

Off season boredom hits some quicker than others.

 

[Harris Specter]

Whats with this Collingwood nuffie going through and reacting to old posts

Haha team wins a premiership and this is what they resort to and find enjoyment out of.
How much of a sad life must he/she lead?

 

[Happy_Neale]

Off season boredom hits some quicker than others.

Four days to get sick of a flag…must be seriously bored

 

[Andyy]

Yes, and counting Collingwood today...if you want an interesting comparison look at the the teams who have Marvel stadium as their home ground. Since 2000, when it opened, only one team has won a premiership, Western Bulldogs. Ostensibly, Marvel was Essendon's home ground in 2000 however in that season they played an equal amount of games (9) at the MCG. Essendon has not won a finals game since 2004. Since 2000 the success of MCG home teams to win premierships and form dynasties has been disproportionate to the limited success of Marvel teams.

Interesting analysis there

 

[M Malice]

Charlie Cameron

23

Charlie Cameron

Age

31

Ht

180cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.6

2star

K

7.9

3star

HB

1.7

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

9.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.2

4star

's goal to put us in front late popped on my Youtube shorts yesterday and I decided to watch it, some great play by Lyons, Berry and Charlie for that goal... just made me feel worse though, knowing we were 5 minutes of good footy away from winning a flag. First thing that crossed my mind after watching it was the horror show from the following centre bounce.

Who knows, that could end up being this group of players best chance to win it.

I will not be watching anymore vision of it, it will be consigned to the dustbin with 2004.

 

[martinson]

Charlie Cameron's goal to put us in front late popped on my Youtube shorts yesterday and I decided to watch it, some great play by Lyons, Berry and Charlie for that goal... just made me feel worse though, knowing we were 5 minutes of good footy away from winning a flag. First thing that crossed my mind after watching it was the horror show from the following centre bounce.

Who knows, that could end up being this group of players best chance to win it.

I will not be watching anymore vision of it, it will be consigned to the dustbin with 2004.

Now that the dust has settled I'm a bit flat on footy and had enough for the time being . Just a few little tweaks here and there and we would've done it.

The biggest task of our coaching group is to really get the guys up and motivated for 2024 . A normal H/A game just doesn't have much significance any more. Everyone needs a good break and a new theme developed for 2024. If the players are as flat as I am it's going to take time to recharge.

 

[BrisVegasDru]

Charlie Cameron's goal to put us in front late popped on my Youtube shorts yesterday and I decided to watch it, some great play by Lyons, Berry and Charlie for that goal... just made me feel worse though, knowing we were 5 minutes of good footy away from winning a flag. First thing that crossed my mind after watching it was the horror show from the following centre bounce.

Who knows, that could end up being this group of players best chance to win it.

I will not be watching anymore vision of it, it will be consigned to the dustbin with 2004.

Was crook as a dog on GF day, watched it but was so sick went to bed immediately the siren blew, still can't bring myself to watch the replay.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Now that the dust has settled I'm a bit flat on footy and had enough for the time being . Just a few little tweaks here and there and we would've done it.

The biggest task of our coaching group is to really get the guys up and motivated for 2024 . A normal H/A game just doesn't have much significance any more. Everyone needs a good break and a new theme developed for 2024. If the players are as flat as I am it's going to take time to recharge.

Players need a break for sure but they are in no way flat & want season 2024 to start asap. There are so many good footballers in the past who never played in a Grand Final so they are very grateful to get the opportunity to participate in one & now their hunger to go one step further is huge. The club knows we are in a 3 year window and also know that winning Grand Finals dont happen by resting on past efforts. They will be ready 100% once they come back for pre-season and dont need any special motivation than this season to get into top gear asap.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I’m the same; completely uninterested in the trade / draft period and to be honest I’m still very despondent at our chances moving forward. Being there, I just still can’t believe that after Charlie put us in front, like many times throughout the season and Fagan banging on about learnings for years that we didn’t win. Even personally, I’ve been flat as a tack, have not watched or read about anything related to the GF and will take another campaign or two before it dissipates.

I’m even bracing myself for us to drop out of the eight and you could hardly be surprised if the players were not mentally scarred from this wasted opportunity.

Must be a sad way to start & finish the day thinking like that...first Granny for 19 years.....HUGE!!!

 

[briztoon]

Players need a break for sure but they are in no way flat & want season 2024 to start asap. There are so many good footballers in the past who never played in a Grand Final so they are very grateful to get the opportunity to participate in one & now their hunger to go one step further is huge. The club knows we are in a 3 year window and also know that winning Grand Finals dont happen by resting on past efforts. They will be ready 100% once they come back for pre-season and dont need any special motivation than this season to get into top gear asap.

Hey Mighty Lions, are our boys coming back later this preseason, and can you share any information on how the preseason may differ from previous preseasons.

 

[M Malice]

martinson McIvor , you proffered the perfect word for how I have been feeling FLAT.... am a lot better after this weekend, watched my grandson play basketball on Friday night and the granddaughter play soccer this morning, puts it all in perspective.

Not all that interested in the trade or draft either, Tom Doedee

12

Tom Doedee

Age

28

Ht

190cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.1

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

5.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

MG

228.8

4star

D

15.3

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

5.8

3star

M

6.3

5star

T

1.3

2star

MG

228.8

3star

D

19.8

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

9.4

5star

M

6.6

5star

T

1.4

4star

in is a great move but I think that will be it for trade, draft our first selection looks like being late 20's... if we by some miracle manage to trade our way up the draft board that may peak some interest.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Hey Mighty Lions, are our boys coming back later this preseason, and can you share any information on how the preseason may differ from previous preseasons.

No idea

 

[Tom14]

If you want to know when they come back it’s mandated in the cba. As far as I’m aware it hasn’t changed with the new agreement?

 

[Nathan Barley]

Wonder if the pies still want to give Adams a medal

 

[PertRoosOsborne]

Wonder if the pies still want to give Adams a medal

According to their supporters he is, and always was, a crap footballer.

 

[irel]

According to their supporters he is, and always was, a crap footballer.

...regardless, will still ask for a first round pick.