Grand Final Crowds - Genuine Question.

greatwhiteshark

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Thread starter #1
I was lucky enough this year to attend the GF and had an awesome time in Melbourne and of course made better by the Eagles winning.
Was talking to a mate recently about the crowd support at the game and we both agreed it was about a 65-35% split in favour of Collingwood. As we discussed this further we were scratching our heads at how so many Collingwood supporters got into the ground?
The general consensus was for most Victorians we spoke to they wanted the Eagles to beat Collingwood.
Both sides are given 16k tickets or there about.
The MCC has 25k tickets which leaves us with approx 50k tickets filled by AFL corporates and sold travel corporate packages.
Now we were assuming that most neutrals no matter who they supported on the day would not wear that clubs colours. Yet almost everyone you see is in Eagles or Collingwood attire.
How did Collingwood manage to get so many of their true genuine supporters into the ground? Did they purchase tickets off Richmond mates who had got them assuming they would be in it? Or was it simply that many Victorians attending wanted the pies to win anddressed accordingly on the day.
As most travel corporate packages are well and truly sold before GF day were them 20k of Collingwood supporters who were optimistic enough to think their side would make it.
Or is it just simply that the game being in Melbourne most neutrals just supported the Pies?
 

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BIRDBRAIN

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#2
When 'corporate' tickets hit the offices of large Melbourne firms surely the Collingwood supporters are going to get a bit of precedence. Besides, not everyone likes/loves AFL and even wants to go, plenty of tickets naturally make their way from a neutral supporter to genuine supporters who wanted it more. Collingwood supporters would have debased themselves in the office toilet for those tickets!

I was grateful to get a ticket out of the Membership Ballot and even more grateful there was so many Collingwood faithful there with me to see the result.
 

doppleganger

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#3
Collingwood have the largest number of AFL members...by a long way.

So safe to assume that about 12k of the 15K AFL membership tickets on the day would have been Pies.

Collingwood also has decent number of MCC members, they leave about 10K for walk-up after allocating about 12K in their reserves ballot. So if the 10k walk up group, again would have been majority Collingwood and a very minimal Eagles presence.

The actual numbers would be more like 55% Collingwood, 30% West Coast and 15% neutrals.
 

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#4
I was lucky enough this year to attend the GF and had an awesome time in Melbourne and of course made better by the Eagles winning.
Was talking to a mate recently about the crowd support at the game and we both agreed it was about a 65-35% split in favour of Collingwood. As we discussed this further we were scratching our heads at how so many Collingwood supporters got into the ground?
The general consensus was for most Victorians we spoke to they wanted the Eagles to beat Collingwood.
Both sides are given 16k tickets or there about.
The MCC has 25k tickets which leaves us with approx 50k tickets filled by AFL corporates and sold travel corporate packages.
Now we were assuming that most neutrals no matter who they supported on the day would not wear that clubs colours. Yet almost everyone you see is in Eagles or Collingwood attire.
How did Collingwood manage to get so many of their true genuine supporters into the ground? Did they purchase tickets off Richmond mates who had got them assuming they would be in it? Or was it simply that many Victorians attending wanted the pies to win anddressed accordingly on the day.
As most travel corporate packages are well and truly sold before GF day were them 20k of Collingwood supporters who were optimistic enough to think their side would make it.
Or is it just simply that the game being in Melbourne most neutrals just supported the Pies?
You and your mate just got it wrong. If 16 thousand members of both clubs got tickets in the general seating area that still leaves AFL members area and MCC members area that other Pies fans more likely to access than Eagles fans. So Collingwood would probably have another 9K in AFL members area and MCC more. My guess all up was Pies probably had just under 40K of their own supporters there on day and Eagles probably around 20K. The rest would be neutrals and a few Pie or Eagles followers that not actually members. Even if 25K of neutrals would rather Eagles win, they hardly going to make the same noise as the Eagles and Pie members truly emotionally invested more in each goal.
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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#5
You and your mate just got it wrong. If 16 thousand members of both clubs got tickets in the general seating area that still leaves AFL members area and MCC members area that other Pies fans more likely to access than Eagles fans. So Collingwood would probably have another 9K in AFL members area and MCC more. My guess all up was Pies probably had just under 40K of their own supporters there on day and Eagles probably around 20K. The rest would be neutrals and a few Pie or Eagles followers that not actually members. Even if 25K of neutrals would rather Eagles win, they hardly going to make the same noise as the Eagles and Pie members truly emotionally invested more in each goal.
I've seen al ot of instances where people throw out exact ratio's of supporters in crowds but there's actually no objective data. The AFL does surveys of people attending each AFL game, including team allegiance and from memory games attended which would guage strength of allegiance. It would be interesting if they made this public.
 

Rob

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#6
People always overstate the number of "corporates" that go to the grand final. Sure it's thousands, but it's not 50,000. MCC + AFL members + Medallion club get over half the ground, and they're all going to be Victorians. The first 2 are going to be mostly Collingwood, and a lot of the tickets given to Medallion club members are going to find their way to Collingwood people. Add the club allocation and there's going to be a massive Collingwood contingent there.
 

footyfan78

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#7
I've seen al ot of instances where people throw out exact ratio's of supporters in crowds but there's actually no objective data. The AFL does surveys of people attending each AFL game, including team allegiance and from memory games attended which would guage strength of allegiance.
Exactly. Many of the ones I read are simply stabs in the dark. If you get to a lot of games at MCG you might get a feel for it by observation yourself. I did not goto this years grand final but when I went to Crows and Tigers, there was plenty of Crows fans in AFL members and there was no way Crow fans were outnumbered 2 to 1 on day overall. I trust my own sense of it by going to a lot of games. It does help to know the allocation of tickets on grand final day to members in general areas as by sight if sitting in AFL members I can see whom has more fans in attendance. But as for the MCC side I got far less idea. Only ever been to one grand final in MCC section using a mate's MCC membership for 1986 grand final when I was just a teenager. But Crows fans getting to MCG on grand final is going to be at least 10,000 more than Eagles just on fact the cost and time to get to MCG is so much easier for them. At best, though, still just a guesstimate.
 

telsor

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#8
As others have said, there would have been a fair few Collingwood fans in the AFL & MCC reserves, which would tend to skew the figures a fair bit.
 

Rotayjay

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#9
As with jobs, people with the right connections find a way. 'No one is hiring' but if you know the right person, you're in. 'Tickets sold out' but if you know the right person, you're in. Of course if you're a diehard Collingwood supporter in Melbourne you're much more likely to have a business contact in Melbourne who can get you a ticket, as compared to a diehard Eagles fan residing in Perth.
 
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#10
As with jobs, people with the right connections find a way. 'No one is hiring' but if you know the right person, you're in. 'Tickets sold out' but if you know the right person, you're in. Of course if you're a diehard Collingwood supporter in Melbourne you're much more likely to have a business contact in Melbourne who can get you a ticket, as compared to a diehard Eagles fan residing in Perth.
True comment. As a mad Tigers supporter and working in Corp world I’ve asked for and been offered tickets once - last year. The company openly state that they offer to supporters of both their company and supporting teams. Hence the neutral tickets are still snapped up by participating teams and being in Melbourne, the local teams will be well represented.
 
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#11
The MCC and AFL members far outnumber the number of actual seats at the ground. AFL Collingwood supporters who have bought/be allocated seats over other members from other teams. The same is true for MCC. You can reserve seats and line up to purchase seats. Collingwood members would have done this in preference to other supporters. Even corporate boxes would have had a large percentage of Collingwood supporters. There still would have been plenty of neutral supporters but with packages and demand, this is why you would have noticed the difference.
 

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banzai

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#12
Many of the corporate tickets and AFL Members tickets would be sold/given away to Collingwood fans.
 

SBD Gonzalez

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#13
I've seen al ot of instances where people throw out exact ratio's of supporters in crowds but there's actually no objective data. The AFL does surveys of people attending each AFL game, including team allegiance and from memory games attended which would guage strength of allegiance. It would be interesting if they made this public.
I’m reading a book right now which touches on this. For all our advances in technology it’s actually still very difficult to calculate crowd numbers (except through turnstiles of course). Breaking down the composition of a crowd is still fraught.
 

dean33

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#14
Collingwood have the largest number of AFL members...by a long way.

So safe to assume that about 12k of the 15K AFL membership tickets on the day would have been Pies.

Collingwood also has decent number of MCC members, they leave about 10K for walk-up after allocating about 12K in their reserves ballot. So if the 10k walk up group, again would have been majority Collingwood and a very minimal Eagles presence.

The actual numbers would be more like 55% Collingwood, 30% West Coast and 15% neutrals.
This :pointup:. Was pretty much the same in last year’s grand final. Afl members and mcc filled with many of the Victorian teams supporters. Also I’d imagine a few of the “corporate” tickets would be as well.
 

dean33

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True comment. As a mad Tigers supporter and working in Corp world I’ve asked for and been offered tickets once - last year. The company openly state that they offer to supporters of both their company and supporting teams. Hence the neutral tickets are still snapped up by participating teams and being in Melbourne, the local teams will be well represented.
Very true. I was offered a corporate seat for last year’s grand final for the first time, obviously due to my support of one of the competing teams. I declined as I knew I’d get seats with my afl membership and sit with my brother rather than corporates.
 

Rotayjay

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#16
You'll never get an exact figure, but the good old ear test (combined with visible colours in the bays) can be very revealing as to support ratio. Listen carefully to multiple goals and the relative loudness of the roars gives it away.
 

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You'll never get an exact figure, but the good old ear test (combined with visible colours in the bays) can be very revealing as to support ratio. Listen carefully to multiple goals and the relative loudness of the roars gives it away.
Relying on Visible colours can be very deceptive. Ours eyes pick out light and bright colours like yellow far more readily that dark colours. Hence you will always get Richmond over estimated to some degree. Loudness is a better way but even then can be deceptive if one team is dominating and others struggling. Good example in 2017 grand final. Richmond winning and celebrating quite early because Crows shat themselves meant the Richmond supporters were cheering more than Crows supporters there as had more to be excited about. But being there myself I knew there was a good representation of Crows fans there but nothing to cheer about. I doubt there was much more than 15K tigers fans than Crows on the day but the Tiger ones there had lot more to make noise about.
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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#18
Relying on Visible colours can be very deceptive. Ours eyes pick out light and bright colours like yellow far more readily that dark colours.
:( Not to mention the staff at the MCG wear orange and grey. I was briefly excited by the colours at the ground in our 2017 H/A game against the Tigers.
 

Cudi_420

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#19
AFL Members.

/thread.

Collingwood would have a higher ratio of fans against most teams in a GF for this reason alone. While clubs get set member allocation, AFL Gold members of competing clubs get full section access. So this boosts numbers for Collingwood by as little as 5% vs Richmond, and as much as 10000% against an interstate club. Overall across the ground this boosts their overall support numbers.

The same would apply regardless of location. If the game were to have been held in Perth, you'd look at around 10k for AFL Gold Member allocation. Which would mostly likely almost exclusively be snapped up by Collingwood afl members.
 

gopies1981

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#20
Out of the 67,000 afl members 12,000 are Collingwood fans. Plus another 12,000 mcc members that support Collingwood. I was at the grand final Collingwood easily out numbers west coast but if I was guess it would of been 50,000 Collingwood fans to 20,000 west Coast fans. The remainder to the other 30,000 were more then likely neautrals.

Grand final parade had around 100,000 Collingwood fans to 20,000 west coast!!
 

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#21
MCC still has transferable tickets like Ladies tickets that can be passed on to anyone. My wife is a Pie and went on a friend's MCC ladies ticket, for example. Plus, WC fans are not in Melbourne and in a position to snap up available tickets.
 

Shoei

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#22
Out of the 67,000 afl members 12,000 are Collingwood fans. Plus another 12,000 mcc members that support Collingwood. I was at the grand final Collingwood easily out numbers west coast but if I was guess it would of been 50,000 Collingwood fans to 20,000 west Coast fans. The remainder to the other 30,000 were more then likely neautrals.

Grand final parade had around 100,000 Collingwood fans to 20,000 west coast!!
I wonder why.
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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#23
When 'corporate' tickets hit the offices of large Melbourne firms surely the Collingwood supporters are going to get a bit of precedence. Besides, not everyone likes/loves AFL and even wants to go, plenty of tickets naturally make their way from a neutral supporter to genuine supporters who wanted it more. Collingwood supporters would have debased themselves in the office toilet for those tickets!

I was grateful to get a ticket out of the Membership Ballot and even more grateful there was so many Collingwood faithful there with me to see the result.
Did WC oversubscribe their allocation of tkts in the ballot?
I know you have a large passionate fanbase but it's a serious imposition to travel from Perth to Melbourne for the game. There would be some resident in Melbourne no doubt, but still.
 

Rotayjay

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#24
Relying on Visible colours can be very deceptive. Ours eyes pick out light and bright colours like yellow far more readily that dark colours. Hence you will always get Richmond over estimated to some degree. Loudness is a better way but even then can be deceptive if one team is dominating and others struggling. Good example in 2017 grand final. Richmond winning and celebrating quite early because Crows shat themselves meant the Richmond supporters were cheering more than Crows supporters there as had more to be excited about. But being there myself I knew there was a good representation of Crows fans there but nothing to cheer about. I doubt there was much more than 15K tigers fans than Crows on the day but the Tiger ones there had lot more to make noise about.
Well put. What I was trying to get at when I said 'multiple goals'. No one goal for either side reveals the support ratio because of that waxing and waning of excitement. However all the cheers, taken as a whole, can be revealing.
 

kickazz

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#25
On the club colours thing:

I went on a corporate ticket in 2009. That morning at the breakfast, each seat included a footy record, and alternativey a cats or saints scarf.

So even the "tourists" look like they support a team but perhaps do not.
 
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