Grant Thomas tells us how it is.

itsintheblood

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Thread starter #1
Thomas tells Tigers some home truths
07 August 2007 Herald Sun
Mark Robinson

FORMER St Kilda coach Grant Thomas has delivered a brutally honest assessment to Richmond's players and coaches.

The Tigers' desperate search for success and self respect led the club to ask Thomas to address the club before Saturday's match against Geelong.

The 45-minute address at Punt Rd on Wednesday included individual and group criticism.

It is believed Thomas accused some senior players of being selfish and playing for survival, and said the club had lost its identity and respect throughout the football world.

He tried to explain the reality that several players listening to him would not be at the club in 2008.

The agenda was for Thomas to speak of his experiences of being at a club that was low on the ladder and what steps were taken to improve that position.

Thomas took over at St Kilda from Malcolm Blight in 2001. They finished 15th. In 2002, the club again finished 15th.

Thomas last night declined to comment, as did Richmond coach Terry Wallace.

Tigers football director Greg Miller, however, last night confirmed Wallace had extended the invitation to Thomas.

"Grant was good, the players appreciated it. He was honest, that's the way he is, upfront, frank, honest, bang, this is the way it is boys," Miller said.

"This is what I went through and this is what you have to go through . . . and you either survive or you don't.

"It was good for everyone.

"It was brutal honesty, it was excellent.

"Grant was in an era at St Kilda when he got there where they were on the bottom of the ladder and they had a group of older players, a gap in the middle and (then) all these young kids started at once.

"His group was in a similar situation to what our group is now."

The speech, the first for Thomas at another AFL club, seemingly did not help the Tigers cause.

They lost to Geelong by 70 points and in the post-script, Wallace calmly criticised the senior playing group.

Miller said the club would continue to find ways to improve the team's performance in the final four rounds.

"We are getting games into players we believe can play the game," Miller said. "Daniel Connors was great at the weekend. He's only 18 still. Him and Edwards and Riewoldt are all from last year's draft and are all playing seniors and are all 18.

"And they are all good mates, they get along well."

The Tigers, floundering in 16th position with just one win and a draw from 18 games, say they can push Collingwood on Friday and Essendon in Round 21.

They play West Coast and St Kilda in their other two games.
____________________________________________________________

Well it's obvious Wallace is incapable of delivering the news to our crap senior players so we might as well get someone else to do it.
 

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itsintheblood

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Thread starter #3
He's not the first coach to get an outsider in to address the players, however I found Thomas to be an interesting choice.
Grant Thomas would be a great addition to our coaching panel. He's sensational with the kids and would do a lot better than some of the peanut coaches we have right now.
 

turtle27

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#4
Grant Thomas would be a great addition to our coaching panel. He's sensational with the kids and would do a lot better than some of the peanut coaches we have right now.
That's what I meant by interesting. Is there something more, aka a job, to come from this?
 

deliberate!!

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Just another example of Terry Wallace having no power to positively effect our playing group.
Why does it take a 'brutally honest' Thomas to try to get something out of this group?
Surely this is the most extreme outward sign that Wallace needs help, or replacement.

And Miller's idiotic remark about the young players again highlights our pathetic rudderless ship,
"And they are all good mates, they get along well."

Who cares whether the players get along?
It's not a Bingo Club...
These guys have a job to do.
You don't need to get along with someone in the workplace to work with them.

Thomas' (a failed coach) invite to speak shows Wallace and Miller have lost the plot.

I'm counting down the days Terry till you've completed your damn contract.
Then all you fools who don't want a contract ended prematurely will realize we have wasted more years when things are obviously wrong.

The solution isn't evident yet, but the set in concrete problem is!!
 

Harvey Leadpipe

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#6
I have heard GT speak a number of times at various corporate functions. He excels in one area that Australians tend to struggle at, and that's his presentation skills. When he speaks, you listen. The last time I heard him speak was at a golf day not long after the Milne/Montagna saga. He did not shirk one question, answered directly and in a manner that appeared to be brutally honest. Was quite refreshing to listen to someone address a group in a corporate and sporting arena and not bumble around dropping cliche after cliche, not meaning anything. I was impressed.

He may not have had the technical vision to be a senior football coach, and he sure has copped a caning from many about how ordinary a coach he was, but he sure knows how to deliver a message. Unless he had a hidden agenda to cause unrest to have another tilt at a senior coaching position, I'd have no issue with him being another medium to lay down the law and pump and the kids.
 

itsintheblood

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Thread starter #7
Just another example of Terry Wallace having no power to positively effect our playing group.
Why does it take a 'brutally honest' Thomas to try to get something out of this group?
Surely this is the most extreme outward sign that Wallace needs help, or replacement.

And Miller's idiotic remark about the young players again highlights our pathetic rudderless ship,
"And they are all good mates, they get along well."

Who cares whether the players get along?
It's not a Bingo Club...
These guys have a job to do.
You don't need to get along with someone in the workplace to work with them.

Thomas' (a failed coach) invite to speak shows Wallace and Miller have lost the plot.

I'm counting down the days Terry till you've completed your damn contract.
Then all you fools who don't want a contract ended prematurely will realize we have wasted more years when things are obviously wrong.

The solution isn't evident yet, but the set in concrete problem is!!

For all of Grant Thomas' faults, I reckon he's a great coach and can get the best out of the playing group. He proved this at stkilda. Players like montagna, gram, fisher, all flourished under thomas. Forget about the spat he had with butterrs. A lot of saints fans weren't happy when thomas was given the flick. And he's a brilliant media performer too.
 

PHX

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#9
Grant Thomas to be at Tigerland next year??

Would slot in perfectly in player development with Craig McRae.
 

deliberate!!

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#10
For all of Grant Thomas' faults, I reckon he's a great coach and can get the best out of the playing group. He proved this at stkilda. Players like montagna, gram, fisher, all flourished under thomas. Forget about the spat he had with butterrs. A lot of saints fans weren't happy when thomas was given the flick. And he's a brilliant media performer too.
Wallace is great media performer too...
And look where that has got us!!
 
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#11
lol@ ppl always reading more into a situation

clubs get outsiders to give talks for a variety of reasons all the time, big f.icking deal

FFS we've heard of Frawley being invited to several different clubs for a chat to the group
 

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Haggard H

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#13
For all of Grant Thomas' faults, I reckon he's a great coach and can get the best out of the playing group. He proved this at stkilda. Players like montagna, gram, fisher, all flourished under thomas. Forget about the spat he had with butterrs. A lot of saints fans weren't happy when thomas was given the flick. And he's a brilliant media performer too.

I know a lot more Saints fans who were rapt to see him go. He may be able to talk and build camaraderie but he's no senior coach. He refuses to seperate himself from the players and was basically a groupie, always calling the players, "Kosi, Harvs, Fraze, Rooee", etc. The players liked him because he worked so hard at being their mate, rather than their coach.

Basically he was good at tanking, which got them some great draft picks in some great drafts. Then these players took him to a couple of preliminary finals, rather than the other way round.

And I doubt you want him on the side somewhere because I get the feeling he can't help but be disruptive, always plotting, from the demise of Blight to the stuff with Butterss. Should be in politics, not football.

Also, he hates the Tigers. I think that may have been why he was brought in to address the players - someone who wouldn't hold back one bit. A good time to bring him in as those who respond positively would be worth keeping, and those who let the criticism upset them will fall apart in the last few weeks and make it obvious that they should go at the end of the year.

Job done, now don't let him near the club again.
 

Bazzar

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#14
2 sprayes in as many days:)

The Ducks spray was a pearler on Footy Classified last night. Thank God someone in the media has some balls to come out and tell it how it realy is.
Onya Duck:thumbsu:
 

itsintheblood

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2 sprayes in as many days:)

The Ducks spray was a pearler on Footy Classified last night. Thank God someone in the media has some balls to come out and tell it how it realy is.
Onya Duck:thumbsu:
Our club has become a total basket case. If we were a horse we would have been shot by now.

Duck is on the money.
 

Terry Tan

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#16
ok he came and spoke to our club and we got thrashed by 70 points. really made any difference didn't it.

Why couldn't TW have told them face to face?

Our senior players have let us down - Johnson, Bowden, Simmonds, Hall, Knobel, Tivendale, Pettifer, even Brown & Richo, and that's why we're sh1t. And Wallace has let them get away with it.

We blame and bury kids like Tambling for our problems, but the real problem is the leadership from the coaches and the senior players which is non existent.

Kane Johnson & Bowden are not captains ar$eholes.
 

cartwright

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#17
I know a lot more Saints fans who were rapt to see him go. He may be able to talk and build camaraderie but he's no senior coach. He refuses to seperate himself from the players and was basically a groupie, always calling the players, "Kosi, Harvs, Fraze, Rooee", etc. The players liked him because he worked so hard at being their mate, rather than their coach.

Basically he was good at tanking, which got them some great draft picks in some great drafts. Then these players took him to a couple of preliminary finals, rather than the other way round.

And I doubt you want him on the side somewhere because I get the feeling he can't help but be disruptive, always plotting, from the demise of Blight to the stuff with Butterss. Should be in politics, not football.

Also, he hates the Tigers. I think that may have been why he was brought in to address the players - someone who wouldn't hold back one bit. A good time to bring him in as those who respond positively would be worth keeping, and those who let the criticism upset them will fall apart in the last few weeks and make it obvious that they should go at the end of the year.

Job done, now don't let him near the club again.
right, well obviously you are a Richmond supporter .... so your knowledge of St Kilda is limited.

Not quite sure what the problem is by calling someone you work with everyday by their nickname - I would think it is just part of being at a football club, Sure Thomas was close to some players - some of these players were 18 yr olds when the came to St Kilda - he identified that they needed more than just coaching - isn't a coach meant to get the best out of their players - which ever way they can?

Good at tanking .... when would that have been? .... his whole ideaology at St Kilda was to create a winning culture, a postive culture something that St Kilda didn't have (surely as a Richmond supporter you know what I am talking about ?) ....

Why would he hate the Tigers? Not sure what you are talking about there.
 

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#18
Our club has become a total basket case. If we were a horse we would have been shot by now.
Correct. Thats why i find it hart to just to bag the senior players. Its all through the club, from the President to the Groundsmen. The entire culture needs the biggest rocket of all time to get out of this 25 year black hole.

I know its been done to death on other threads, and it seems the majority are againsed it, but i still think the hardness and ruthless nature of Sheeds is exactly whats needed to get the club out of this horrible black hole. He wont win us a flag, but he just might sow the seeds for us to return to the power house we once were.
 

Haggard H

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#19
right, well obviously you are a Richmond supporter .... so your knowledge of St Kilda is limited.

Not quite sure what the problem is by calling someone you work with everyday by their nickname - I would think it is just part of being at a football club, Sure Thomas was close to some players - some of these players were 18 yr olds when the came to St Kilda - he identified that they needed more than just coaching - isn't a coach meant to get the best out of their players - which ever way they can?

Good at tanking .... when would that have been? .... his whole ideaology at St Kilda was to create a winning culture, a postive culture something that St Kilda didn't have (surely as a Richmond supporter you know what I am talking about ?) ....

Why would he hate the Tigers? Not sure what you are talking about there.

I haven't been at school for quite a few years now but I don't recall too many teachers addressing their students by nicknames, and those who did were the ones who were liked by the kids in the short term but failed to gain respect and (academic) results in the long term - not to say that approach can't help kids find themselves as people and gain confidence in the world - it just seems to detract from achieving the actual purpose of the relationship.

"some of these players were 18 yr olds when the came to St Kilda - he identified that they needed more than just coaching" most players are 17 or 18 when they start their AFL careers, there was nothing special about these Saints. Footy clubs have development officers and senior players to help kids mature, and most have fathers or father figures not far away - these jobs aren't a coaches responsibility.

Tanking? "his whole ideaology at St Kilda was to create a winning culture, a postive culture something that St Kilda didn't have." I agree with you there, but I reckon he did it through tanking the first couple of years on the back of low expectations from supporters (like Wallace is enjoying now), which he used to the max to pick up some top players through the draft.

Hates Richmond? I'll change that to "Dislikes", and can only back it up through what I've seen him say and write over the past 5 or 6 years.

My knowledge of St Kilda may be limited, but I reckon I've spent a lot more time talking to Saints players, coaches and officials over the past 15 years than 99% of Saints supporters.

But hey, it's only an opinion. If you don't like it, stick to your own board.
 

Ah Cheung

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#20
So we need Grant Thomas to tell us how it is? Terry Wallace and none of the coach staff are able to do that? So are the coaching staff just pumping all the players up and telling them how good they are and how good they look when they get the ball?
I don't mind getting someone in to speak to the players but try and do it yourself first before you get someone else to do it.
 

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#22
I haven't been at school for quite a few years now but I don't recall too many teachers addressing their students by nicknames, and those who did were the ones who were liked by the kids in the short term but failed to gain respect and (academic) results in the long term - not to say that approach can't help kids find themselves as people and gain confidence in the world - it just seems to detract from achieving the actual purpose of the relationship.
"some of these players were 18 yr olds when the came to St Kilda - he identified that they needed more than just coaching" most players are 17 or 18 when they start their AFL careers, there was nothing special about these Saints. Footy clubs have development officers and senior players to help kids mature, and most have fathers or father figures not far away - these jobs aren't a coaches responsibility.

Tanking? "his whole ideaology at St Kilda was to create a winning culture, a postive culture something that St Kilda didn't have." I agree with you there, but I reckon he did it through tanking the first couple of years on the back of low expectations from supporters (like Wallace is enjoying now), which he used to the max to pick up some top players through the draft.

Hates Richmond? I'll change that to "Dislikes", and can only back it up through what I've seen him say and write over the past 5 or 6 years.

My knowledge of St Kilda may be limited, but I reckon I've spent a lot more time talking to Saints players, coaches and officials over the past 15 years than 99% of Saints supporters.

But hey, it's only an opinion. If you don't like it, stick to your own board.

:)IRRELEVANT.

What...you've never heard Wallace refer to Richo? JB? Johno? Browny?
Pagan never ever referred to his key forwards as Duck and Horse?
Did Sheeds not refer to "Hirdy's" last game in Melbourne being played against Richmond?
Lethal Leigh or Rocket never refer to Aker?
Matthews calling his gun player "Browny"?
You sure Bomber never calls the red headed bloke Lingy?

THEY ALL DO IT!!!!!
 

CoggaRules

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#23
Just another example of Terry Wallace having no power to positively effect our playing group.
Why does it take a 'brutally honest' Thomas to try to get something out of this group?
Surely this is the most extreme outward sign that Wallace needs help, or replacement.
Dude, if you havent noticed, it wasnt about getting something out of players. It was all about telling them how it is. Now lets just say had it been TW instaed of Thomas, how would you have handled it? I mean, just inmagine if it was, and TW addressed the players before the Geelong game and he said that alot of the senior group wont be there etc etc... wake up FFS. I'll give you the mail, sat next to him last year when he was doing some scouting work on the team we were playing, for an upcoming match, and it was evident that his assesment of us didnt just happen this year, going by the moans and groans that i heard as another experienced tiger hack ****ed up another un****able possesion. ;)
 

1980

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#24
Surely a sign of our desperation that we look upon Thomas so fondly.

He never was a coach. He got the job by knifing Blight and because his best mate at the time was the president.

Its a good thing to have him address the players and say you are at we were at. I've been there and I know what it is, and what you need to do to go from here.

there is nothing wrong with Wallace bringing in grant to address the players on this subject.

Any kid sitting there, Lids, Tambling, Edwards, King, Hughes etc that is in shell shock from losing so many games heard the message that so did Del Santo and N Reiwoldt and the rest of the Saints kids when they finished 15th 2 years in a row. But they went on to play regular finals.

I just hope he also told them he got rid of Spider and Hall because no player is bigger than the club, and they were better off without them, than with them. So Bowden, Tivendale and the rest get tha message too
 
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