Greatest Dynasty of the 21st century - Lions vs Cats vs Hawks vs Tigers

Which dynasty is the greatest?


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Barry_Badrinath

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Hasn’t he more or less asked which is the greatest dynasty? And set out no terms beyond that? Or am I missing something?

True. No mention of what qualifies in the original post. The poll has years, but doesn’t include them all. Brisbane is 01-03 rather than 01-04 and Hawthorn is 13-15 rather than 12-15 or 08-15. OP just put enough years to cover their premierships. That’s it.
 
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True. No mention of what qualifies in the original post. The poll has years, but doesn’t include them all. Brisbane is 01-03 rather than 01-04 and Hawthorn is 13-15 rather than 12-15 or 08-15. OP just put enough years to cover their premierships. That’s it.

Campaigner didn’t do us any favours then did he. 😂😂😂
 

PJays

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This one absolutely goes to Geelong. 84% over the 5 years is insane. They won 18 home and away games 4 times. That’s more than Hawthorn, Richmond and Brisbane combined.

Yep. Geelong's home and away record is head and shoulders above.

Over 5 years- H&A and finals 105-20. Closest is Hawthorn 99-27 from 2011-2015 (or 97-28 if you go 2012-2016). Brisbane 88-36-1 from 2000-2004.

Richmond 71-23-1 from 2017 to 2020. Richmond has lost 3 more games in 4 seasons, than Geelong did in 5 seasons. And one of Richmond’s seasons was a shortened year.

Geelong’s record is boosted by the lack of strong interstate sides at the time, but equally Hawthorn is boosted by the presence of early GC, early GWS, rabble Melbourne and rabble St Kilda through their successful stretch.

This ones very selective and very debatable. Of course if you leave out the years where Geelong lost finals then their finals record will look the best. In the years being discussed Geelong went 12-3, Brisbane 11-2, Hawthorn 11-2, Richmond 10-2. They’re all pretty well the same. Geelong’s is slightly weaker when you consider it’s only 80% compared to 85% and 83% for the others. Geelong had a slightly better percentage due to a few huge wins, but also more close calls and losses than Richmond for example.

It sounds like you’re comparing 5 seasons of Geelong with 4 seasons of the others?

We need to be consistent. Compare apples with apples. Either rate flag years only, or rate the 5 year period when each team was most successful. Eg Brisbane 2000 to 2004 (or include 1999 if you want). Hawthorn 2011 to 2015 (or 2012 to 2016). Richmond 2017 to 2020, since they’ve only had 4 successful years so far.

Geelong comes out ahead on W/L, and easily ahead on percentage. Whether you choose flag years only, or extend it out.

Agreed. Geelong did face the best Grand Final opponents in 2009 and 2011. They also faced the weakest in 2007.

Both great performances but Hawthorn 2014 and Richmond 2019 are arguably on par or better. I’m not sure which of those 4 is best.

I’d rate the grand final performances like this, factoring in strength of opposition and performance in the game:

Geelong vs Collingwood 2011
Geelong vs Port 2007
Hawthorn vs Sydney 2014
Brisbane vs Collingwood 2003
Richmond vs GWS 2019
Geelong vs St.Kilda 2009
Brisbane vs Essendon 2001
Richmond vs Geelong 2020
Richmond vs Adelaide 2017
Hawthorn vs West Coast 2015
Hawthorn vs Freo 2013
Brisbane vs Collingwood 2002

Geelong stands out, head and shoulders above. I’m not sure who I’d put in 2nd.


Richmond 2017 is comparable. 07, 11 and 17 are the three contenders for best finals series out of these teams. Richmond 2019 settles for 4th place.

Geelong’s 2011 is a clear number 1. Easily the best opponents of any finals series under discussion. And Geelong won every game comfortably. You can't do much better than that.

I’d rate Richmond 2017 slightly above Geelong 2007. Winning 2 finals by over 100 is just ridiculous, even in a weaker year. But Geelong’s prelim win was very tight, so they lose a spot for that.

So Geelong has 2 of the top 3 finals series under discussion.
 

Barry_Badrinath

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On the finals record but, if I extend it out to 5 years like you suggested then it becomes:

Richmond 10-2 (83%)
Lions 12-3 (80%)
Geelong 12-3 (80%)
Hawthorn 12-4 (75%)

Again, bugger all in it. They were all pretty evenly dominant over the successful eras in finals. If we extend it out any further than 5 years then Geelong’s record starts to look very dicey
 

PJays

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Hasn’t he more or less asked which is the greatest dynasty? And set out no terms beyond that? Or am I missing something?

He listed flag years, and said Hawthorn 2013-2015. Which I interpret as saying that dynasties is about teams, not clubs.

You can have whatever definition of dynasty you want though.

I find the team conversation a bit easier to analyze consistently though. If you take the longer term view of dynasty, you have to answer the following questions:

  • What is sufficient connection between dynasties in terms of players? Or is it just playing for the same club?

  • What stops a dynasty? Does failing to achieve any success for 2 straight years stop a dynasty in it's tracks? Or does it take 3 or 4 years?

As long as you clearly define your terms and answer the methodological questions straight up, go for it. Have your discussion.

I've defined my terms clearly from the start and have never deviated from them. And I think my terms actually have less subjectivity in them.
 

PJays

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On the finals record but, if I extend it out to 5 years like you suggested then it becomes:

Richmond 10-2 (83%)
Lions 12-3 (80%)
Geelong 12-3 (80%)
Hawthorn 12-4 (75%)

Again, bugger all in it. They were all pretty evenly dominant over the successful eras in finals.

And percentage?

Win/Loss similar but Geelong's percentage was easily better, and overall opposition was better. So what does that tell you? If you're playing better teams and winning your games by more, then.......

If we extend it out any further than 5 years then Geelong’s record starts to look very dicey

But that becomes a discussion about clubs. I'm discussing who the greatest team was.
 

Roby

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Hawthorn supporters in this thread be like:



4ow0y7.jpg
 

Barry_Badrinath

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And percentage?

Win/Loss similar but Geelong's percentage was easily better, and overall opposition was better. So what does that tell you? If you're playing better teams and winning your games by more, then.......



But that becomes a discussion about clubs. I'm discussing who the greatest team was.

Winning games by more? Or some games by more? Richmond have only had one scare in the prelim this year. All the other wins were by 20 plus.

Geelong had more losses and more narrow wins. Only Port came close
 

MRCB12

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This thread is incredible.

I love it.

Thanks for the enjoyment.

I’ll just list them in my order
Hawthorn
Brisbane
Richmond
Geelong

I’d take back to back any day. Three in row trumps all. Geelong ripper team and dominated home and away but never backed it up in finals. What’s the point. You can finish 8th and still win the flag. Finals is when it counts.

Richmond when next year. Biased yes. But that’s three in a row and 4/5 years. That’s the winner.

Couldn’t care less for percentage and home and away records. Premierships the the most important thing. Geelong weren’t the best team as they couldn’t win in finals two years running.

Saints were a great team 09-10 they won nothing. Deserved one, perhaps. Couldn’t get it done when it matter unfortunately.

Just another random point. If a team finishes 5-8th and wins a flag and manages to incredibly do that 3 times in a row. Surely that’s the greatest. Making finals is all you have to do. Bulldogs 2016. Make it then put the foot down. Richmond dominated 2018 and s**t the bed in the pre lim. I’d rather scrape into finals domaine 4 weeks of footy not the 22 weeks prior
 

Fadge

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On the finals record but, if I extend it out to 5 years like you suggested then it becomes:

Richmond 10-2 (83%)
Lions 12-3 (80%)
Geelong 12-3 (80%)
Hawthorn 12-4 (75%)

Again, bugger all in it. They were all pretty evenly dominant over the successful eras in finals. If we extend it out any further than 5 years then Geelong’s record starts to look very dicey
Is that because Geelong played in finals whereas the other teams didn't?

Or is that because Geelong made Preliminary Finals with a record of 1 win, 2 losses, whilst the other teams lost their first final (or went 1 win, 1 loss)?

Please, provide us with some detailed analysis....
 

Barry_Badrinath

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Is that because Geelong played in finals whereas the other teams didn't?

Or is that because Geelong made Preliminary Finals with a record of 1 win, 2 losses, whilst the other teams lost their first final (or went 1 win, 1 loss)?

Please, provide us with some detailed analysis....

Hawthorn went 1-2
Brisbane went 1-1
 

Pessimistic

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And percentage?

Win/Loss similar but Geelong's percentage was easily better, and overall opposition was better. So what does that tell you? If you're playing better teams and winning your games by more, then.......



But that becomes a discussion about clubs. I'm discussing who the greatest team was.

percentage could mean the opposition was poor. I men some quarters geelong barely broke even. But that 2007 GF does wonders for percentage ey? Even though there’s no percentage in finals
 

PJays

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Winning games by more? Or some games by more? Richmond have only had one scare in the prelim this year. All the other wins were by 20 plus.

Geelong had more losses and more narrow wins. Only Port came close

OK. Let’s summarise Geelong and Richmond in finals.

Geelong- In 5 years:
  • Lost 3 finals to very good teams, and had two close calls (one against a team that won 19 games in a row).
  • Smashed a few teams- 119 point Grand Final win, 106 point qualifying final win, 73 point prelim win.
  • Won games comfortably against very good teams. (Hawthorn 2011, WC 2011, Coll 2011).

Richmond- In 4 years:
  • Lost 2 finals to lesser teams, and had one close call.
  • Smashed teams, but nowhere near as convincingly as Geelong’s biggest wins.
  • Had comfortable wins, but not against the same quality of opposition.
Take your Richmond glasses off and ask yourself:

Is this even close? Why am I bothering to defend my team when the answer is so obvious?

Relax, just kidding. We all know you’re incapable of taking your Richmond glasses off!
 

Roby

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OK. Let’s summarise Geelong and Richmond in finals.

Geelong- In 5 years:
  • Lost 3 finals to very good teams, and had two close calls (one against a team that won 19 games in a row).
  • Smashed a few teams- 119 point Grand Final win, 106 point qualifying final win, 73 point prelim win.
  • Won games comfortably against very good teams. (Hawthorn 2011, WC 2011, Coll 2011).

Richmond- In 4 years:
  • Lost 2 finals to lesser teams, and had one close call.
  • Smashed teams, but nowhere near as convincingly as Geelong’s biggest wins.
  • Had comfortable wins, but not against the same quality of opposition.
Take your Richmond glasses off and ask yourself:

Is this even close? Why am I bothering to defend my team when the answer is so obvious?

Relax, just kidding. We all know you’re incapable of taking your Richmond glasses off!

The more Geelong supporters post, the more I realise how insecure you are wanting someone to validate those premierships that didn't go back to back.

They've basically discarded as an average era in the grand scheme of things.

As I've said before Geelong is lucky to have two, premierships let alone three. But just go with the obivious one.

The 2009 Bradbury.

  • Plays St Kilda at the MCG even though St Kilda performed poorly there and played better at Marvel (previously know as Etihad).
  • St Kilda proved they were the better team during the year
  • Got a wet Grand Final which did not suit St Kilda taller forwards or what dry Etihad
  • Umpires allowed Geelong to pull their opponents in marking contests
  • Hawkins scored a point which was illegally converted into a goal
  • Despite all this St Kilda won the first three quarters! (No team has done this and lost a grand final other than 2009)
  • With a couple of minutes to go the score was still level and of Dawson punches it correctly Saints win (maybe he should've pulled Gary Ablett but then the umpires would've favoured Geelong anyway as they during their dominant period, they were Bulldogs/West Coast of that era for free kicks)
So Geelong Bradbury the 2009 flag, you have not been able to counter this point, you're a fraud.

So Geelong even with 2011 go four years without another legitimate premiership. This not a dynasty. It's an accident of history.
 

Barry_Badrinath

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OK. Let’s summarise Geelong and Richmond in finals.

Geelong- In 5 years:
  • Lost 3 finals to very good teams, and had two close calls (one against a team that won 19 games in a row).
  • Smashed a few teams- 119 point Grand Final win, 106 point qualifying final win, 73 point prelim win.
  • Won games comfortably against very good teams. (Hawthorn 2011, WC 2011, Coll 2011).

Richmond- In 4 years:
  • Lost 2 finals to lesser teams, and had one close call.
  • Smashed teams, but nowhere near as convincingly as Geelong’s biggest wins.
  • Had comfortable wins, but not against the same quality of opposition.
Take your Richmond glasses off and ask yourself:

Is this even close? Why am I bothering to defend my team when the answer is so obvious?

Relax, just kidding. We all know you’re incapable of taking your Richmond glasses off!

Well at least you’re honest now lol

You’re not being very impartial though. You discredit the quality of the teams Richmond pumped, but not Geelong’s opponents.

Why didn’t you feel the need to point out that the 119 point win and the 106 point win were against garbage opposition? The 2009 Pies weren’t exactly a powerhouse either.

You say Geelong’s wins were more comprehensive. I’d say 114-25 is a pretty comprehensive smashing. Using your favourite metric of percentage it’s even more impressive than 119. And that’s against a team with far more talent than the 07 Power or 07 Roos.

And as for losing to lesser teams? The Pies were a lower team sure. But losing to the 2nd placed team on their home deck? Dunno if that counts.

Geelong lost to two lower ranked opponents FWIW. You might even call them lesser teams.
 
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PJays

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You say Geelong’s wins were more comprehensive. I’d say 114-25 is a pretty comprehensive smashing. Using your favourite metric of percentage it’s even more impressive than 119.

You're not seriously comparing 2007 with 2019 are you?

2019- Close game early. GWS held a 5 point lead until the 24 minute mark Q1. Richmond took control in Q2. Led by 56 early Q4 before piling on late goals to win by 89.

2007- Geelong dominated from the opening minutes. 12 scoring shots to 4 first quarter. 52 point half time lead. Had a 128 point lead but Port goaled late. Broke all time record with 119 point win.

And don't forget Geelong won the qualifying final by 106 3 weeks earlier.

Geelong had the most dominant wins. This isn't even debatable.


And that’s against a team with far more talent than the 07 Power or 07 Roos.

2019 GWS finished 6th and scraped through to the GF. Talented list but haven't ever consistently displayed that talent cohesively as a team, or shown the toughness necessary to win finals.

Port 2007 probably the superior team. At least comparable.

Geelong lost to two lower ranked opponents FWIW. You might even call them lesser teams.

Who?

2008 Hawthorn, 2010 Collingwood and 2010 St Kilda all superior to 2018 Collingwood, who smashed Richmond.

And 2020 Brisbane...... lol. That one doesn't need discussing after the way they lost the prelim. In fact they've finished top 4 with a double chance 2 years in a row and Richmond's the only team they've managed to beat! How bad does that make Richmond look!?

Take off those yellow and black glasses mate! At least try to.
 
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PJays

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The more Geelong supporters post, the more I realise how insecure you are wanting someone to validate those premierships that didn't go back to back.

They've basically discarded as an average era in the grand scheme of things.

As I've said before Geelong is lucky to have two, premierships let alone three. But just go with the obivious one.

The 2009 Bradbury.

  • Plays St Kilda at the MCG even though St Kilda performed poorly there and played better at Marvel (previously know as Etihad).
  • St Kilda proved they were the better team during the year
  • Got a wet Grand Final which did not suit St Kilda taller forwards or what dry Etihad
  • Umpires allowed Geelong to pull their opponents in marking contests
  • Hawkins scored a point which was illegally converted into a goal
  • Despite all this St Kilda won the first three quarters! (No team has done this and lost a grand final other than 2009)
  • With a couple of minutes to go the score was still level and of Dawson punches it correctly Saints win (maybe he should've pulled Gary Ablett but then the umpires would've favoured Geelong anyway as they during their dominant period, they were Bulldogs/West Coast of that era for free kicks)
So Geelong Bradbury the 2009 flag, you have not been able to counter this point, you're a fraud.

So Geelong even with 2011 go four years without another legitimate premiership. This not a dynasty. It's an accident of history.

To be honest, I've had you on ignore mode since early in this thread, when it became obvious you were interested in cheerleading rather than discussing.

I only see your posts if I'm logged out (as just happened) or if someone quotes you and I can click "show content".

The Cats 2009 flag was as much of a Bradbury flag as:

- The Hawks 2013 flag when Geelong was up by 19 early in the last quarter of the prelim but ran out of steam, while missing Chapman who'd found form with 4 goals the previous week. Varcoe missed a gettable shot with under a minute left which would've tied the game and brought energy back into Geelong's legs.

- The Hawks 2015 flag when they won a home final against the higher placed Eagles, who were dynamite at Subiaco but average on the road. They thrashed Hawthorn in the qualifying final, with the game over by 5 minutes left in the 3rd. But of course Hawthorn gets handed the home final.

Most premiers have a lot of luck. Hawthorn's had just as much as anyone, if not more.
 

PJays

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Most premiers have a lot of luck.

This is relevant to this thread so I'll elaborate.

Most premiers have a near full contingent of players on Grand Final day.

Very few are missing multiple key players. The only ones I can think of are West Coast 2018 who were missing Gaff (suspension) and Nic Nat. And the fairytale Dogs who were incredibly missing 6 or 7 of their best 22.

Look at Richmond this year. Full strength squad through the finals.

Consider St.Kildas absentees in the semi final:

Ryder was crucial to St Kilda in 2020. We were 9-5 with Ryder including finals, with 3 of the losses by under a goal and a 4th by 15 points after we led by 8 points with 8 minutes to go. So 9 wins, 4 nail biting losses and a big loss. He finished 3rd in our B&F on a votes per game basis, (8th overall after missing 4 games) and was Best on Ground in our elimination final before pinging his hammy with a minute left. Huge absence. Ryder would probably have nullified Nankervis and won the ruck battle for St.Kilda like he did all year.

Carlisle missed due to his wife being due. He would’ve been helpful as another option on Lynch.

Gresham has been one of the Saints best for 4 or 5 years.

St Kilda missing 3 quality players including the crucial Ryder. Richmond full strength.

Now consider other luck Richmond had:

- The Vlaustin goal review- clearly incorrect. Daylight between hand and ball. St.Kilda denied a goal.

- Richmond nailed a few arsey goals from 35-40m that bounced through, whereas St Kilda kicked poorly going 6.13.

If St.Kilda had their full contingent, and Richmond had been missing 3 important players, and St Kilda was the beneficiary of a helpful goal review and some lucky bounces, what would the result have been? Could St Kilda have won like they did against Richmond during the season (comfortably)?

No one knows. But it would've definitely been much closer than the 31 point margin to Richmond that occurred.

Richmond got some lucky breaks. The main one being, they had their best team on the field. Their opponent didn't. Many premiers find themselves in this same situation.
 

Roby

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To be honest, I've had you on ignore mode since early in this thread, when it became obvious you were interested in cheerleading rather than discussing.

I only see your posts if I'm logged out (as just happened) or if someone quotes you and I can click "show content".

The Cats 2009 flag was as much of a Bradbury flag as:

- The Hawks 2013 flag when Geelong was up by 19 early in the last quarter of the prelim but ran out of steam, while missing Chapman who'd found form with 4 goals the previous week. Varcoe missed a gettable shot with under a minute left which would've tied the game and brought energy back into Geelong's legs.

- The Hawks 2015 flag when they won a home final against the higher placed Eagles, who were dynamite at Subiaco but average on the road. They thrashed Hawthorn in the qualifying final, with the game over by 5 minutes left in the 3rd. But of course Hawthorn gets handed the home final.

Most premiers have a lot of luck. Hawthorn's had just as much as anyone, if not more.

Can't help yourself can you, I wonder why.
 
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This is relevant to this thread so I'll elaborate.

Most premiers have a near full contingent of players on Grand Final day.

Very few are missing multiple key players. The only ones I can think of are West Coast 2018 who were missing Gaff (suspension) and Nic Nat. And the fairytale Dogs who were incredibly missing 6 or 7 of their best 22.

Look at Richmond this year. Full strength squad through the finals.

Consider St.Kildas absentees in the semi final:

Ryder was crucial to St Kilda in 2020. We were 9-5 with Ryder including finals, with 3 of the losses by under a goal and a 4th by 15 points after we led by 8 points with 8 minutes to go. So 9 wins, 4 nail biting losses and a big loss. He finished 3rd in our B&F on a votes per game basis, (8th overall after missing 4 games) and was Best on Ground in our elimination final before pinging his hammy with a minute left. Huge absence. Ryder would probably have nullified Nankervis and won the ruck battle for St.Kilda like he did all year.

Carlisle missed due to his wife being due. He would’ve been helpful as another option on Lynch.

Gresham has been one of the Saints best for 4 or 5 years.

St Kilda missing 3 quality players including the crucial Ryder. Richmond full strength.

Now consider other luck Richmond had:

- The Vlaustin goal review- clearly incorrect. Daylight between hand and ball. St.Kilda denied a goal.

- Richmond nailed a few arsey goals from 35-40m that bounced through, whereas St Kilda kicked poorly going 6.13.

If St.Kilda had their full contingent, and Richmond had been missing 3 important players, and St Kilda was the beneficiary of a helpful goal review and some lucky bounces, what would the result have been? Could St Kilda have won like they did against Richmond during the season (comfortably)?

No one knows. But it would've definitely been much closer than the 31 point margin to Richmond that occurred.

Richmond got some lucky breaks. The main one being, they had their best team on the field. Their opponent didn't. Many premiers find themselves in this same situation.

I’ve just about given up on you Peej, but had to set you straight on this one….

According to you:

Saints missing Ryder, Gresham, Carlisle, 3 quality players according to you.

Carlisle 😂.

Richmond had Soldo, Stack, Coleman-Jones, Higgins, Caddy, Prestia all unavailable, under prepared or not sufficiently right due to injuries or in Higgins’ case recovery from a brain op.

That is not full strength and Rance, Stack and Jack Graham and Jack Higgins missing due to injury in the 2019 Grand Final is not
full strength either. Full strength is you know, when you get to play your first choice 22.

————————————————————————————————

The Vlastuin goal review according to you is clearly incorrect. There is nothing clear about it. The footage is completely unclear. The goal umpire was about 6 feet away and he thought it was touched and as you could only tell by sound, I would suggest he was in a better position than you to tell.

This post is just foolish and doesn’t establish any point relevant to the thread. That you rely on about 12 different inaccuracies to support the concept says it all really.
 

PJays

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Saints missing Ryder, Gresham, Carlisle, 3 quality players according to you.

Carlisle 😂.

Carlisle "quality" may be stretching it re the 2020 Carlisle, but he's been a consistent fixture in our team for 4 years and remains in our best 22. Lynch goaled in the first 30 seconds of the game, and it would've been helpful having Carlisle as another option.

Ryder and Gresham I assume you aren't questioning and you'd be foolish to do so!

Richmond had Soldo, Stack, Coleman-Jones, Higgins, Caddy, Prestia all unavailable, under prepared or not sufficiently right due to injuries or in Higgins’ case recovery from a brain op.

Prestia played all 4 finals.

Higgins came back from his brain surgery earlier in the season and then got dropped. He was available for finals but didn't get picked. That's why he asked to be traded!

The ones who were actually unavailable: Soldo is no loss when you have triple premiership ruck Nankervis there. Stack maybe but he's not a key player.

Coleman-Jones has played the grand total of 1 game his entire career. Are you seriously complaining about his self-inflicted absence? :tearsofjoy:


The Vlastuin goal review according to you is clearly incorrect. There is nothing clear about it. The footage is completely unclear. The goal umpire was about 6 feet away and he thought it was touched and as you could only tell by sound, I would suggest he was in a better position than you to tell.

You aren't going to make me dig out the photo from my phone are you?

There were 2 or 3 inconclusive angles- as is often the case. But one angle was 100% crystal clear. He wasn't anywhere near the ball. Every commentator said so at the time! Even his reaction gave it away!

This post is just foolish and doesn’t establish any point relevant to the thread. That you rely on about 12 different inaccuracies to support the concept says it all really.

Hang on, you didn't even know which of your own players were available (Prestia and Higgins), yet I'm the one relying on inaccuracies?

Come on mate, you Richmond fans are letting us all down. Lift your game- like your team has!
 
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Carlisle "quality" may be stretching it re the 2020 Carlisle, but he's been a consistent fixture in our team for 4 years and remains in our best 22. Lynch goaled in the first 30 seconds of the game, and it would've been helpful having Carlisle as another option.

Ryder and Gresham I assume you aren't questioning and you'd be foolish to do so!



Prestia played all 4 finals.

Higgins came back from his brain surgery earlier in the season and then got dropped. He was available for finals but didn't get picked. That's why he asked to be traded!

The ones who were actually unavailable: Soldo is no loss when you have triple premiership ruck Nankervis there. Stack maybe but he's not a key player.

Coleman-Jones has played the grand total of 1 game his entire career. Are you seriously complaining about his self-inflicted absence? :tearsofjoy:




You aren't going to make me dig out the photo from my phone are you?

There were 2 or 3 inconclusive angles- as is often the case. But one angle was 100% crystal clear. He wasn't anywhere near the ball. Every commentator said so at the time! Even his reaction gave it away!



Hang on, you didn't even know which of your own players were available (Prestia and Higgins), yet I'm the one relying on inaccuracies?

Come on mate, you Richmond fans are letting us all down. Lift your game- like your team has!

To be clear…

I wasn’t saying Caddy, Prestia or Higgins were unavailable. Prestia was well underdone for the early finals, coming back into the team off a long term injury with complications off no footy. It is understood Caddy couldn’t get his body right and was never considered after the final home and away match, when he performed creditably in the circumstances. Higgins missed the 2019 finals entirely and was clearly nowhere near his best in 2020, and this can only be presumed to be due to the effects of his brain surgeries.

Stack would without doubt be in our best 22 if near his best, Soldo played in our 2019 Premiership alongside Nankervis, and was a fixture in our team when injured. And in the absence of Soldo, Coleman-Jones would likely have been used as second ruck if he was available. He is highly rated, and would have been a late third year AFL player, about the time decent quality tall players start to hit their straps.

Gresham and Ryder would definitely make your team better. But it is not like you had to deal with more missing or hampered than we had.

The Vlastuin incident I saw all sorts of pictures and angles on that and not one of them was even close to conclusive. He jumped on Robbo pretty quick when Robbo labelled him a cheat from memory, and Robbo withdrew it quick smart, no doubt under fear of defamation action. At law, you cannot defame someone with something you can prove is true….

And Vlastuin’s reaction was not evidence of him not touching it, his actions were completely consistent with the situation whether he had touched it or not. He had to contest the ball further as he wasn’t even certain it had completely crossed the line. This incident is one of the most misdescribed and misunderstood during the whole season and that is saying something in a season where Tom Lynch is painted as a thug etc etc.

The Saints probably didn’t have a lot go their way in this match, but they were never truly in the contest, and it would be a hell of a stretch to say Richmond was lucky to beat them, though I understand that is not exactly what you are saying.
 
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