Greatest ODI bowler? Pace and Spin

[ioppolo]

With plenty of discussion of the GOAT one day batsman in the other thread, I thought I'd start the GOAT one day bowler thread. Akram, McGrath, Murali, Pollock just to name a few that come to mind.

Discuss Bigfooty

 

[Gough]

With plenty of discussion of the GOAT one day batsman in the other thread, I thought I'd start the GOAT one day bowler thread. Akram, McGrath, Murali, Pollock just to name a few that come to mind.

Discuss Bigfooty

Perhaps for another thread, but would it be fair to divide ODI cricket into pre, and post T20 eras given how much that has changed the game?

 

[danger_to_walker]

Joel Garner, either era.

 

[PhatBoy]

Garner was my first thought.
Incredible average and economy rate no matter which way it gets spun.

 

[ioppolo]

Wasn't born in the era of amazing Windies quicks myself unfortunately.

 

[Scotland]

Perhaps for another thread, but would it be fair to divide ODI cricket into pre, and post T20 eras given how much that has changed the game?

We don't do that with batsmen, sorry, "batters".

Not many ODI bowlers getting around today with averages of 30 and economy rates under 5.

 

[Carl Hooper]

Brett Lee?

Glenn McGrath?

Wasim Akram?

Murali?

 

[Bradesmaen]

Saqlain?

 

[Scotland]

Brett Lee right up there with 380 wickets @ 23. Amazing SR of 29.4. Bit more expensive than others, though.

 

[Damon_3388]

Something interesting to consider:

All-time ODI bowlers, ordered by strike rate
(qualifying criteria - sub-30 average, sub-5 economy rate, 3000 balls/500 overs bowled, 100 wickets taken, 1 5-fer)

1. Ajantha Mendis (Sri Lanka)
2. Shane Bond (New Zealand)
3. Brett Lee (Australia)
4. Morne Morkel (South Africa)
5. Imran Tahir (South Africa)
6. Saqlain Mushtaq (Pakistan)
7. Waqar Younis (Pakistan)
8. Mitchell Johnson (Australia)
9. Shoaib Akhtar (Pakistan)
10. Allan Donald (South Africa)

54 players qualify overall, with at least one from every Test-playing nation, including 11 Australians, and some names that people wouldn't even think to consider (Nuwan Zoysa, anyone?).

Glenn McGrath comes in at #17, Murali at #22, Wasim Akram at #30, Joel Garner at #33, and Shaun Pollock at #50.

Mitchell Starc would be #1, however he's 23 balls short of the qualification criteria! Shouldn't be resting him tomorrow, records are on the line!

 

[ioppolo]

Brett Lee right up there with 380 wickets @ 23. Amazing SR of 29.4. Bit more expensive than others, though.

4.77 er ain't bad

 

[ioppolo]

Something interesting to consider:

All-time ODI bowlers, ordered by strike rate
(qualifying criteria - sub-30 average, sub-5 economy rate, 3000 balls/500 overs bowled, 100 wickets taken, 1 5-fer)

1. Ajantha Mendis (Sri Lanka)
2. Shane Bond (New Zealand)
3. Brett Lee (Australia)
4. Morne Morkel (South Africa)
5. Imran Tahir (South Africa)
6. Saqlain Mushtaq (Pakistan)
7. Waqar Younis (Pakistan)
8. Mitchell Johnson (Australia)
9. Shoaib Akhtar (Pakistan)
10. Allan Donald (South Africa)

54 players qualify overall, with at least one from every Test-playing nation, including 11 Australians, and some names that people wouldn't even think to consider (Nuwan Zoysa, anyone?).

Glenn McGrath comes in at #17, Murali at #22, Wasim Akram at #30, Joel Garner at #33, and Shaun Pollock at #50.

Mitchell Starc would be #1, however he's 23 balls short of the qualification criteria! Shouldn't be resting him tomorrow, records are on the line!

Didn't Zoysa take a wicket on the first ball of a test 3 times? All against Bangladesh and every time was Hannan Sarker? Something along those lines.

 

[Andrew Mc]

Mitchell Starc would be #1, however he's 23 balls short of the qualification criteria! Shouldn't be resting him tomorrow, records are on the line!

I think just remove the 3000 balls qualification - Starc comfortably satisfies the rest - not his fault he got them so quickly . He's the only one that gets excluded by that restriction, btw.

Some great partnerships come to mind too - Wasim and Waqar, McGrath and Lee (in both cases, one had the better economy, one the better strike rate - a deadly combination), Murali and Vaas, Garner and Holding.

 

[Damon_3388]

Didn't Zoysa take a wicket on the first ball of a test 3 times? All against Bangladesh and every time was Hannan Sarker? Something along those lines.

Zoysa never played a Test against Bangladesh, and played one wicketless ODI against them.

You got the batsman right though, but the bowler was Pedro Collins, in this Test, this Test and this Test. To do that three times, including two Tests in a row, fair to say that's something that is odds on never, ever be repeated.

 

[Damon_3388]

4.77 er ain't bad

It blew out a bit towards the end too, probably due to the changing nature of the game as much as anything else. Was as low as 4.63 in February 2006 (with a ridiculously good 21.73 average and 28.1 strike rate), and still at 4.70 as late as August 2011, but then going for 5.2-5.5 runs an over in his last 10-20 ODIs pushed it out to the 4.76 he finished at in July 2012.

 

[Dom PC]

4.77 er ain't bad

I remember watching the 2003 WC and the commentators talking about Lee's economy rate in ODI. It was at 4.66 and they were talking about that being expensive for a front line bowler (they did acknowledge his fantastic SR) and that you'd hope he can being that down.

Amazing to think that now, just over 10 years later a career economy rate of below 5 is good.

 

[Scotland]

4.77 er ain't bad

Pretty good, but when we're talking GOAT he's up against guys who were under 4.

Lee's real edge compared to others was strike rate. 1.7 wickets per ODI and a strike rate under 30 is amazing. Scores have risen over time but there are still only 10 wickets on offer per innings.

The GOAT ODI bowler should also be someone who can perform in different match scenarios. Bowling aggressively when you have 300 to defend is one thing, but taking the ball when there are 3 overs to go and your opponent needs 15 with 4 wickets in hand is another. Lee, McGrath, Waqar Younis, Wasim Akram - these guys had tricks. Short ball, yorker, slower ball, cutter. Being a good death bowler is a big part of being a great ODI bowler.

ODI is also a game for role players. Brad Hogg was an ODI star but wasn't a renowned death bowler. He'd come on once the 15 overs were up and get through his 10 overs as quickly as possible. If you could get 10 overs 0/30 or 1/35 out of Hogg between overs 15 and 40 you'd be stoked.

 

[Dayan Warna]

I remember watching the 2003 WC and the commentators talking about Lee's economy rate in ODI. It was at 4.66 and they were talking about that being expensive for a front line bowler (they did acknowledge his fantastic SR) and that you'd hope he can being that down.

Amazing to think that now, just over 10 years later a career economy rate of below 5 is good.

Scores of 200 were often defendable. He leaked runs by "yesterdays" standards, though his strike rate and average were solid.

 

[glenferry23]

Bond and Saqlain were the best for me.

 

[PhatBoy]

Bond was f***ing exceptional. Had a great record against the Aussies at that time too

 

[t_94]

I'd take Joel Garner spearing yorkers from 7 ft every time.

 

[JG22]

Mitchell Starc has always had an incredible odi record.
Could be one of the best of all time

120 odd wickets at 19 from 60 games.

 

[glenferry23]

Bond was f***ing exceptional. Had a great record against the Aussies at that time too

Ponting was his bunny. Had an incredible record against him.

One of the greatest displays of fast bowling I've ever seen was at the 2003 World Cup. He had the Aussies jumping around everywhere and took 6 wickets.

Amazingly, New Zealand still lost that game.

 

[The_Reaper]

We don't do that with batsmen, sorry, "batters".

Not many ODI bowlers getting around today with averages of 30 and economy rates under 5.

We should.

I mean look at Ponting. A dominant ODI player in three consecutive world cup wins.

But his strike rate wouldn't be impressive anymore

 

[STFU Donnie]

Scores of 200 were often defendable. He leaked runs by "yesterdays" standards, though his strike rate and average were solid.

I don't think I'm reactionary by nature, but does anybody else miss ODI matches with scores in the mid-200s where the chasing side just plays quality 'cricket' shots to achieve the target? Thursday night, for example.

As opposed to the modern Home Run Derby brand of cricket.