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Greg Swan - "Essendon Cheated" Source SEN

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KennyHunter9 said:
You have an issue mate. You should care what the players think because you are concerned about their health and well-being. Doesn't really matter whether drugs were pumped into good, bad of in between players. Wow.
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My bad for not clarifying my answer better there. You had a double edged question, do I care what the players think and do I care if they leave because of it.

I care what ANY player thinks in relation to this scandal.

I do NOT care if a fringe player uses it as an excuse to leave the club.
 
Cronos said:
A question for the Essendon Supporters in here. When (not if, when) the infractions finally come out, and all the things people are saying are PROVEN true exactly the same way we are pointing out the links between all of this evidence, and a large number of players and officials are banned from the AFL, how long will you argue that it's all an AFL conspiracy before finally realising that you've been wrong all this time?
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You're reduced to dealing in hypotheticals once again I see
 
TheGreatBarryB said:
Carlton deliberately cheated though and it was proved. None of the charges pertaining to drug cheating were sustained by the AFL. That is a fact. So on that basis Carlton's penalties should be greater.

If it's proved down the track that we did cheat then no doubt our penalties will surpass Carlton's.

Until then stupid farks such as Swann should keep their mouths shut.
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A few key differences:

1. Swann was not at the club. His record is impeccable.

2. CFC paid extra money to players, it didn't inject them thousands of times with Hird knows what.

3. CFC members booted out the culprits. EFC gave one of the biggest culprits a 2-year extension.

EFC has no shame. They have no respect. They won't even be able to earn it on the field. This will live for the club while it and its supporters show no shame.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
You're reduced to dealing in hypotheticals once again I see
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And you're reduced to ignoring the questions again I see.

Unfortunately, the leaks have gone quiet since the EFC copped their penalties for rule 1.6, so there isn't any new information to process (except for the public comments from other club presidents of course).
 

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Cronos said:
And you're reduced to ignoring the questions again I see.

Unfortunately, the leaks have gone quiet since the EFC copped their penalties for rule 1.6, so there isn't any new information to process (except for the public comments from other club presidents of course).
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Yet here you are, wildly hypothesising. Again. Lets deal in reality shall we? No?
 
Lance Uppercut said:
Yet here you are, wildly hypothesising. Again. Lets deal in reality shall we? No?
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As I've said, I don't make anything up. I have the same information everyone else does. Every argument I've put forward I've linked back to released or leaked information. I'm not a sheep, and judge each piece of information on it's merit. If I'm given 10 pieces of information, and 9 of them support one theory that is confirmed by the other 8, and 1 supports something completely different and contradicts the rest, guess which way I'm going.

We keep hearing that the real story will come out. I believe it already has.
 
Cronos said:
As I've said, I don't make anything up. I have the same information everyone else does. Every argument I've put forward I've linked back to released or leaked information. I'm not a sheep, and judge each piece of information on it's merit. If I'm given 10 pieces of information, and 9 of them support one theory that is confirmed by the other 8, and 1 supports something completely different and contradicts the rest, guess which way I'm going.

We keep hearing that the real story will come out. I believe it already has.
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Excellent, so you are in agreement that Essendon are not drug cheats?
 
Jade said:
Have been known to be a bit sauced after some games, but I'd be interested to see if you could find a post from myself claiming we've done nothing wrong.
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Haha, not directing it specifically at you, merely generalising. Alcohol and footy don't go well with me. Barracking for Carlton is heart-attack worthy as it is.
 
Cronos said:
As I've said, I don't make anything up. I have the same information everyone else does. Every argument I've put forward I've linked back to released or leaked information. I'm not a sheep, and judge each piece of information on it's merit. If I'm given 10 pieces of information, and 9 of them support one theory that is confirmed by the other 8, and 1 supports something completely different and contradicts the rest, guess which way I'm going.

We keep hearing that the real story will come out. I believe it already has.
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Which part. There have been numerous contradictions. Seems youre cherry picking your leaks to suite your agenda
 
Jade said:
It's a fair point; and as such I'll re-word my statement:

I respect the opinions of those that deserve that respect (which is most people). However untrue, slanderous or idiotic comments should be ignored and disregarded. Case in point, Swann - "Essendon Cheated".
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How do you know for a fact that it is untrue?

You don't seem too happy that other people are allowed to share their opinions. When they do share their opinions you accuse them of stuff like having low IQ's, not being able to read and making idiotic comments.

Even you agreed to the fact that Essendon don't know what they have taken. So therefore it is not unreasonable for someone to sit on the other side of the fence and be of the opinion that Essendon used performance enhancing substances.

You act like each comment we make has to be approved by you.

You can't prove that Essendon didn't cheat, and we can't prove that they did. So you can stop implying that we are all idiots for sharing our opinion on a discussion forum.
 
mxett said:
Which part. There have been numerous contradictions. Seems youre cherry picking your leaks to suite your agenda
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If you haven't got it yet, then you never will.

I am saying that the most likely story is that Hird, Dank, Robinson set out to create a supplement program to improve performance. They thought they were being smart, but screwed up, then attempted to cover their tracks (which they again screwed up). I believe the Charge sheet originally given by the AFL gives an accurate view of what's happened, and I expect it to get worse.
 
Cronos said:
As I've said, I don't make anything up. I have the same information everyone else does. Every argument I've put forward I've linked back to released or leaked information. I'm not a sheep, and judge each piece of information on it's merit. If I'm given 10 pieces of information, and 9 of them support one theory that is confirmed by the other 8, and 1 supports something completely different and contradicts the rest, guess which way I'm going.

We keep hearing that the real story will come out. I believe it already has.
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So stop dealing in hypotheticals. If infractions occur, as they could, it will be dealt with then. Until then, they haven't and you are guessing as much as anyone, no matter what you think ;)
 
Cronos said:
If you haven't got it yet, then you never will.

I am saying that the most likely story is that Hird, Dank, Robinson set out to create a supplement program to improve performance. They thought they were being smart, but screwed up, then attempted to cover their tracks (which they again screwed up). I believe the Charge sheet originally given by the AFL gives an accurate view of what's happened, and I expect it to get worse.
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The charge sheet is merely a list of charges. Assuming it is entirely correct is denying natural justice. Its like saying everyone who is accused of a crime is automatically guilty without letting them defend themselves.
 

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Lance Uppercut said:
So stop dealing in hypotheticals. If infractions occur, as they could, it will be dealt with then. Until then, they haven't and you are guessing as much as anyone, no matter what you think ;)
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Well that would make a discussion forum pretty boring wouldn't it. We're all here to discuss what we know and what we speculate. If you only want to hear good stories and Kum-ba-yah around the fire for Hirdy, try the Essendon board.

The information looks damning - no matter what you think.
 
Cronos said:
Well that would make a discussion forum pretty boring wouldn't it. We're all here to discuss what we know and what we speculate. If you only want to hear good stories and Kum-ba-yah around the fire for Hirdy, try the Essendon board.

The information looks damning - no matter what you think.
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Oh you can say what you like, I don't care. Just don't expect Essendon supporters to give any respect to stupid hypothetical questions you ask merely to make yourself feel better.
 
mxett said:
The charge sheet is merely a list of charges. Assuming it is entirely correct is denying natural justice. Its like saying everyone who is accused is automatically guilty without letting them defend themselves.
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We're not a court of law. This is a discussion forum to talk about the information we have. So far the information suggesting that Essendon are filthy drug cheats seems to be the most likely. The information suggesting that Essendon are innocent seems to revolve around people saying "we don't know, but we're sure it's ok" a lot.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
Oh you can say what you like, I don't care. Just don't expect Essendon supporters to give any respect to stupid hypothetical questions you ask merely to make yourself feel better.
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I'll feel better when it's no longer hypothetical, and you're wondering whether your new superstar came from Division 3 or Division 4 of your local amateur league.
 

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Cronos said:
We're not a court of law. This is a discussion forum to talk about the information we have. So far the information suggesting that Essendon are filthy drug cheats seems to be the most likely. The information suggesting that Essendon are innocent seems to revolve around people saying "we don't know, but we're sure it's ok" a lot.
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The information in the charge sheet is being taken as fact which is unfair. Example, people are claiming Reid was present during player injections. This was claimed in the charge sheet and was probably stated by a few players. However Reid may have a perfectly reasonable explanation for this. Such as he wasnt aware what was being given, he was told it was another substance etc.
 
mxett said:
The information in the charge sheet is being taken as fact which is unfair. Example, people are claiming Reid was present during player injections. This was claimed in the charge sheet and was probably stated by a few players. However Reid may have a perfectly reasonable explanation for this. Such as he wasnt aware what was being given, he was told it was another substance etc.
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So his defence is that Hird kept him away from the doping. Got it.
 
mxett said:
The information in the charge sheet is being taken as fact which is unfair. Example, people are claiming Reid was present during player injections. This was claimed in the charge sheet and was probably stated by a few players. However Reid may have a perfectly reasonable explanation for this. Such as he wasnt aware what was being given, he was told it was another substance etc.
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Even if this was remotely true the good Doctor failed to record the injections which agin makes him guilty. Next?
 
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