Greg Williams is not unique - Brownlow votes myth

the croucher

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Once again over the weekend I heard a media commentator refer to a player's fine match with high 30s/low 40s disposal tally and then note that he might miss out on votes "like Greg Williams" as if that circumstance was unique.

I wish the media and supporters would put that myth to bed because there are dozens of similar instances to Williams as per the list below:

From 1984 when Brownlow votes in each game are individually identified until 2018 I believe the following players have had 40+ disposals
in a match yet received 0 Brownlow votes in that match:


Leon Baker (1986), Jimmy Bartel (2015), Craig Bradley (1994), Peter Burgoyne (2008), Paul Couch (1986) & (1989), Brad Crouch (2017), Tyson Edwards (2007), Greg Healy (1987), Luke Hodge (2011), Spiro Korkoumelis (1987), Richard Loveridge (1987), Steve Malaxos (1987), Chris McDermott (1992), Barry Mitchell (1988) & (1989), Sam Mitchell (2009), Tom Mitchell (2018 x 2), Lachie Neale (2016), John Platten (1988), Brett Ratten (1995), Tom Rockliff (2014), Seb Ross (2018), Tony Shaw (1991), Ken Sheldon (1985), Adam Simpson (2001), Scott Thompson [Adelaide] (2012), Adam Treloar (2018), Terry Wallace (1988), Greg Williams (1985 x 2) & (1990) & (1993)

There is also the case of Wayne Richardson who is known to have had eight games of 40+ disposals in the 1971 season,
but only received Brownlow votes in five of those eight matches.

If there is ever a full list of 3s, 2s and 1s identified for every season, no doubt there could be other instances found as well.
 

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RAPPA

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But wasn’t the relevance of Williams’ case that it cost him the Brownlow? 1993, loses by 1 vote and doesn’t poll in a game where Carlton won by a decent margin and he amassed 44 touches and 1 goal. Carlton’s next highest disposal winner had 29. Fair mare by the umpire I reckon considering they weren’t 44 rockliff-like touches
 

Scotland

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Greg Williams and then Scott West played in an era where it wasn't fashionable to handball more than kick.

Tom Mitchell runs at 12K 17H per game over his career, Clayton Oliver 9K 19H. Greg Williams was 12.5K 14.4H. People are more focused on clearance and disposal numbers now whereas in the 90s getting 20 kicks was rated higher than 5 kicks and 20 handballs.

Contested possessions and contested marks only started being recorded in 1999, clearances and inside 50s in 1998. Mitchell, Josh Kennedy, Cripps, Priddis, Tom Liberatore have all recorded 180+ clearances in a season. Brett Ratten got 265. Travis Cloke has the record for contested marks with 95, I reckon Wayne Carey in the mid 90s would have bettered that. If Diesel was playing in today's footy I reckon he would be a regular 20 vote per season player.
 

the croucher

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But wasn’t the relevance of Williams’ case that it cost him the Brownlow? 1993, loses by 1 vote and doesn’t poll in a game where Carlton won by a decent margin and he amassed 44 touches and 1 goal. Carlton’s next highest disposal winner had 29. Fair mare by the umpire I reckon considering they weren’t 44 rockliff-like touches
Again, Williams is not unique.
Scott Thompson (Adelaide) in 2012 might well be a Brownlow Medallist if he'd received votes in this game
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2012/010920120728.html
 

Belnakor

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tony__montana

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It was also widely accepted by the greater footballing public that Diesel made every touch count and was a brilliant user of the footy(his release handballs were a thing of beauty - no stat padding like you see today. I saw that 40+ possie game and it was a joke he didnt receive brownlow votes
 

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Teen Wolf

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Imagine if this forum (and booing) existed back in 1997...

Why the hate for Greg Williams?

"Um, maybe because he's a thug. No, it's because he chased a flag by riding the coattails of actual champions. Nah, it's because he accepted under-the-table payments. Actually, it's because he racially vilifies indigenous players. Or is it because he assaults umpires? Perhaps it's due to derailing a season with bogus court cases.

"Guys, you're all wrong. It's because he carries on like a pork chop for not getting enough Brownlow votes."

Shame on you, BigFooty.
 

Belnakor

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It’s also been admitted by an umpire that Williams didn’t get a vote in 1993 because the umpires hated him.

He should have 3 brownlow medals.
iirc the story was the junior umpire came in and said "obviously 3 votes Williams" and the senior umpire (who Williams had been abusing the entire game) said **** that that campaigner - no votes for him.
 

PAFC_1870

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Not sure the relevance of listing 40 plus disposals since that incident as 40 touches today isn't as rare as it may have been.
 

btdg

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It’s also been admitted by an umpire that Williams didn’t get a vote in 1993 because the umpires hated him.

He should have 3 brownlow medals.
This. He was clearly BOG and one of the umpires later admitted that they lest him out of the votes for personal reasons - not malicious; just because they thought he was a jerk

What this thread has shown me though is Wayne Richardson’s stats. Why haven’t I heard more about this bloke? Some of his numbers are insane.

47 disposals (31 kicks) and 5 goals vs South Melbourne in 1970

46 and 4, 45 and 5, and a bunch of other 40+ multiple goal efforts in 1971

Never seemed to hit those heights in finals from what I can see, but even so, that’s phenomenal. I’ve heard more about a bunch of his team mates, but this one slipped under the radar for me
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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Once again over the weekend I heard a media commentator refer to a player's fine match with high 30s/low 40s disposal tally and then note that he might miss out on votes "like Greg Williams" as if that circumstance was unique.

I wish the media and supporters would put that myth to bed because there are dozens of similar instances to Williams as per the list below:

From 1984 when Brownlow votes in each game are individually identified until 2018 I believe the following players have had 40+ disposals
in a match yet received 0 Brownlow votes in that match:


Leon Baker (1986), Jimmy Bartel (2015), Craig Bradley (1994), Peter Burgoyne (2008), Paul Couch (1986) & (1989), Brad Crouch (2017), Tyson Edwards (2007), Greg Healy (1987), Luke Hodge (2011), Spiro Korkoumelis (1987), Richard Loveridge (1987), Steve Malaxos (1987), Chris McDermott (1992), Barry Mitchell (1988) & (1989), Sam Mitchell (2009), Tom Mitchell (2018 x 2), Lachie Neale (2016), John Platten (1988), Brett Ratten (1995), Tom Rockliff (2014), Seb Ross (2018), Tony Shaw (1991), Ken Sheldon (1985), Adam Simpson (2001), Scott Thompson [Adelaide] (2012), Adam Treloar (2018), Terry Wallace (1988), Greg Williams (1985 x 2) & (1990) & (1993)

There is also the case of Wayne Richardson who is known to have had eight games of 40+ disposals in the 1971 season,
but only received Brownlow votes in five of those eight matches.

If there is ever a full list of 3s, 2s and 1s identified for every season, no doubt there could be other instances found as well.
The list is no good unless you also put up who polled in those games and everyone else' stats.

A 40 possie game from Williams was a thing of beauty. I wished he had got it 100 times a game he was that good to watch using it.

It has been well documented in the case of Williams that the snr umpire overruled his less experienced colleagues because Diesel had been giving them lip during the game.

It's about as big a farce as Judd winning his 2nd after opening up Pav's face but it being deemed insufficient force.
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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Jimmy Bartel had 11 kicks took 6 marks and gave off 30 handballs, Geelong lost to North Melbourne by 41 points, all the votes went to North players.

3. Andrew Swallow 11 kicks, 2 marks, 13 handballs, 2 goals and 12 tackles.
2. Todd Goldstein 8 kicks, 5 marks, 11 handballs, 1 goal, 45 hitouts
1. Shaun Higgins 11 kicks, 8 marks, 8 handballs, 3 goals, 4 tackles
 

Fadge

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2003 when Buckley and Goodes tied with Riccuito.

Round 21, winner secures top 4 spot. Pies win a classic but Goodes was best on ground. Easily.

Bucks polls one vote, Goodes misses out.

Goodes is the outright Brownlow Medallist if the right votes were given for that game.
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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Barry Mitchell in 1991. Averaged 31 touches a game, kicked 30 goals for the season. 0 Brownlow votes for the season
I was just having a quick look at Diesel's stats. There were a couple of 4 goal, 39 disposal games in the same season and he didn't poll a vote in either.
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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2003 when Buckley and Goodes tied with Riccuito.

Round 21, winner secures top 4 spot. Pies win a classic but Goodes was best on ground. Easily.

Bucks polls one vote, Goodes misses out.

Goodes is the outright Brownlow Medallist if the right votes were given for that game.
There was famously a game against Geelong that Geelong won easily, Goodes was completely ineffectual and hardly got the ball, he polled 2 votes. Geelong won 16.18 - 114 to 10.12 - 72. Goodes had 9 kicks, 2 marks, 5 handballs, he kicked 4 behinds had 5 hit outs and laid 5 tackles.
 
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