Greg Williams is not unique - Brownlow votes myth

Herne Hill Hammer

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Greg Williams and then Scott West played in an era where it wasn't fashionable to handball more than kick.

Tom Mitchell runs at 12K 17H per game over his career, Clayton Oliver 9K 19H. Greg Williams was 12.5K 14.4H. People are more focused on clearance and disposal numbers now whereas in the 90s getting 20 kicks was rated higher than 5 kicks and 20 handballs.

Contested possessions and contested marks only started being recorded in 1999, clearances and inside 50s in 1998. Mitchell, Josh Kennedy, Cripps, Priddis, Tom Liberatore have all recorded 180+ clearances in a season. Brett Ratten got 265. Travis Cloke has the record for contested marks with 95, I reckon Wayne Carey in the mid 90s would have bettered that. If Diesel was playing in today's footy I reckon he would be a regular 20 vote per season player.
Except in William's case, he was renowned for his handballing so he was an exception to the rule, it's what got him a guernsey in the AFL Team of the Century. Lying on the couch on a Sunday afternoon, nursing a hangover, watching the Swans and watching Williams slicing sides up with his laser like handballs was awesome.
 

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Fadge

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There was famously a game against Geelong that Geelong won easily, Goodes was completely ineffectual and hardly got the ball, he polled 2 votes. Geelong won 16.18 - 114 to 10.12 - 72. Goodes had 9 kicks, 2 marks, 5 handballs, he kicked 4 behinds had 5 hit outs and laid 5 tackles.
Yeah, swings and roundabouts.

I do recall Goodes not having to do a heap to be noticed by the umpires, which is why I was astounded that he was overlooked in the Pies game in 2003.
 

Blues177

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Yeah, swings and roundabouts.

I do recall Goodes not having to do a heap to be noticed by the umpires, which is why I was astounded that he was overlooked in the Pies game in 2003.
The game at ANZ stadium?

Goodes 28 disposals, 20 hitouts 1 goal

Votes
3 Licuria (27 disposals 1 goal)
2 Maxfield (18 disposals 5 tackles)
1 Bucks (17 disposals 11 tackles)

Bucks, Riccuito & Goodes tied for medal.
 

Fadge

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The game at ANZ stadium?

Goodes 28 disposals, 20 hitouts 1 goal

Votes
3 Licuria (27 disposals 1 goal)
2 Maxfield (18 disposals 5 tackles)
1 Bucks (17 disposals 11 tackles)

Bucks, Riccuito & Goodes tied for medal.
Yep, that's the one.

Goodes clear best and throw a blanket over the rest of the players for the 2 and 1 votes.
 

mocamagic

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Those pointing to one particular game to support the contention that a player was robbed off the
Brownlow never consider other games in the year where the player may have actually been fortunate to poll.
 

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It was also widely accepted by the greater footballing public that Diesel made every touch count and was a brilliant user of the footy(his release handballs were a thing of beauty - no stat padding like you see today. I saw that 40+ possie game and it was a joke he didnt receive brownlow votes
Perfect.

Diesel didn't waste his disposals. He released players, his handballs were an attacking weapon. He was the sort of player where you'd rather 20 of his disposals than 35 of someone else's, but he had 40 of them.
 

footyfan78

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Why do people get upset over individual achievements not being acknowledged?

It’s a team game

Thank Christ it’s not like cricket with the focus on the individuals record
Not going to lie, as a Carlton supporter did not give a **** about Diesel not winning the Brownlow that season. Do not get me wrong, was an awesome player but could not give a **** about her personal accolades or his desire to add them to his personal record. All that matters in team sport is winning the premiership. On Grand Final day 1995 he finally reached his potential as far as I was concerned.

On same note, any talk of Cripps Brownlow chances for this season kind of give me the ****s. Team game, pretty hollow if team not going well and fans barrack for individuals to win awards. Premierships medallions are what counts. Cannot wait to see Cripps do that sometime next decade with our other youngsters we building our team up from ground zero.
 

Black JuJu

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He won 2....despite being one of the dirtiest players in the game and by most reports not actually that popular with the umpires.

Pretty good return for Diesel really, all things considered.
 

asanque

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So what we have established is that throughout history (and even now), we have umpires giving votes that have absolutely no idea.

:cool:
 

Captain_Bender

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2003 when Buckley and Goodes tied with Riccuito.

Round 21, winner secures top 4 spot. Pies win a classic but Goodes was best on ground. Easily.

Bucks polls one vote, Goodes misses out.

Goodes is the outright Brownlow Medallist if the right votes were given for that game.
Buckley only has 17 disposals too, surely he didn't deserve the 1 vote
 

Shane Heard

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12 odd years on this forum and I can remember a few epic threads about diesel on this very subject.

As others have mentioned, he had a bad habit of yelling, abusing and complaining to umpires during games.
He was belted from pillar to post every week and used to get extremely frustrated from the lack of interest that umpires had in his treatment.

Legend of a player. Sublime skills.

Thug, mercenary, dirty little king hitter were some of his other descriptions.
 

Wallaby

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Geoff Raines was Brownlow favorite in 1980. He was centreman for the best team in the comp, had the 2nd most disposals for the season (behind Garry Wilson). He didn't poll a vote.

He won 3XB&Fs for Richmond over 4 years (and was 2nd in the other) - Richmond made GFs in 2 of those seasons. Made the Brownlow Top 10 once - only once reached double figures in votes.

I think we should call it out whenever a player receives votes ahead of the obvious outstanding player on the field. It should be called a 'Klomp'. As in 'Greg Williams was totally Klomped in that game'.

(For young kiddies - ask your dad about Robert Klomp).
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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It’s entertaining re Diesel because he was such a fierce individual competitor that he outwardly expressed how much he desired winning the Brownlow

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.heraldsun.com.au/sport/ump-backs-diesel-in-fight/news-story/57b989806d321c70143ec26fabcc6faa
Let's face it, who are the triple Brownlow Medallists?

Hayden Bunton Snr
Bobby Skilton
Ian Stewart

I'd have him 2nd in that list if he'd won the third and elevate him to legend status in the HoF.
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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Geoff Raines was Brownlow favorite in 1980. He was centreman for the best team in the comp, had the 2nd most disposals for the season (behind Garry Wilson). He didn't poll a vote.

He won 3XB&Fs for Richmond over 4 years (and was 2nd in the other) - Richmond made GFs in 2 of those seasons. Made the Brownlow Top 10 once - only once reached double figures in votes.

I think we should call it out whenever a player receives votes ahead of the obvious outstanding player on the field. It should be called a 'Klomp'. As in 'Greg Williams was totally Klomped in that game'.

(For young kiddies - ask your dad about Robert Klomp).
Raines is a strange one. Such a beautiful mover on the field and a penetrating kick and as you posted, he never had any trouble finding it. You'd think he'd have been a natural for catching the umpire's eye.

Being such a pretty boy, maybe he was slaying all the umpire's wives.
 
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