Grigg>Collins

[MightyTiger]

Re: questions re Grigg/collins trade

pppfffttt. taylor is another who is chronically undersized and way out of his depth because of it. like collins it could take 3 or 4 yrs before we start to even see regular games. but by then i suppose he to will be superfluous to needs.

anyway i find it laughable that people pidgeon hole collins as a forward.he played there for two reasons size, and our lack of any smalls or mediums capable of kicking goals.
we have just got andy to the stage with another 3 or 4 kg over the break where he can start to spend decent time in the midfield and we trade him away unneccesarily.

make no mistake we should have both grigg and collins at our club. but of course the blinkered ones who defend the club at all costs wont hear of it.

santa this is Taylors first season so you would expect him to be undersized (Weight not height) where as Collins was on the list for 4-5 years and hasn't really put on any body size at all.

Troy Taylor
189 CM 77 KG

Andrew Collins
187 CM 80KG

Taylor is taller more mobile better skilled (imho) his set shots have looked flaky at times but that is to be expected for a first year player only playing a handful of games.

If you were looking purely long term you would say Taylor as he has more scope for improvement due to his age and his size, Collins while being on our list for 4 years hasn't cemented a spot nor has he gained much muscle mass in that time.

 

[Bazzar]

I also think Taylor is chronically overrated. In fact i will make my call now, and put him in next years delist category

 

[santa claws]

How do you know that?

Do you have inside information?

what you cant use just a little bit of common sense and connect the dots.

some people are in denial.its usually the ones who defend the club at all costs.

i have no doubt that grigg should be at richmond along with houli and we still have any collins.

bur ya know what i could live with not getting either of grigg or houli its not as if they are must have proven very good players jeezus theres no guarantee that they will become that in fact after 4 seasons they are a risk.

people talk as though we had to do a deal we didnt.
it should have gone heres pick 46 take it or leave it. leave it and get nothing we will take our chances on getting him in the psd for nothing. end story.

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

Re: questions re Grigg/collins trade

I'd keep Collins before Hackson & Edwards any day of the week. The former is a smart footballer, a commodity we seriously lack, the latter two are dumb footballers, a commodity we have in excess.

 

[tugga]

tell me tugga why is it that its taken collins 4 yrs to start to get a regular game. it will be the same for taylor.

while im at it what i have seen of taylor collins is a better kick.

finally collins is a mid who wasnt played there but still did well enough in a role while his body slowly developed.

why is it we have pidgeon holed collins as a forward when nothing could be farther from the truth.

Collins is not and would never have been a mid.
We traded a tallish 3rd forward for a hardbodied mid, which is what we needed.
Taylor is on the list as a 3rd tall. May as well play him. For what it's worth, I think you are chronically underselling Troy. I have nothing to back this up by the way, apart from a few inside snippets and my own opinion.
I don't think we have lost anything in this trade and I think we have gained.

 

[santa claws]

Re: questions re Grigg/collins trade

What ???

Lids isn't even getting a game in our midfield.

Collins a midfielder - you must be joking. There are at least 8 players ahead of him Foley, Cotchin, Martin, Morton, Edwards, Jackson, Tuck, White, Nason and now Grigg.

now i know people are deluded. with natural progression and potential upside i would take collins in front of jackson white what an absolute hack nason here we are talking undersized bloody hell and i think edwards.

patience has always been the buzz word with collins he will play in carltons midfield and he will be better than those i mentioned.

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

what you cant use just a little bit of common sense and connect the dots.

Yeah we're talking about Bazzar here....

On the brightside though..he did just declare Taylor delist material....almost a guarantee he'll be a gun now.

 

[Ty German]

tell me tugga why is it that its taken collins 4 yrs to start to get a regular game. it will be the same for taylor.

while im at it what i have seen of taylor collins is a better kick.

finally collins is a mid who wasnt played there but still did well enough in a role while his body slowly developed.

why is it we have pidgeon holed collins as a forward when nothing could be farther from the truth.

Talyor is taller and much better marking forward option that Collins. You probably should compare Collins to Hicks and Nason. If you want to compare him as a mid, then he's really at the end of the queue with the crop we are assembling.

Plus TT has that X-factor. If you can't see that, then you haven't seen him play.

 

[santa claws]

Re: questions re Grigg/collins trade

santa this is Taylors first season so you would expect him to be undersized (Weight not height) where as Collins was on the list for 4-5 years and hasn't really put on any body size at all.

Troy Taylor
189 CM 77 KG

Andrew Collins
187 CM 80KG

Taylor is taller more mobile better skilled (imho) his set shots have looked flaky at times but that is to be expected for a first year player only playing a handful of games.

If you were looking purely long term you would say Taylor as he has more scope for improvement due to his age and his size, Collins while being on our list for 4 years hasn't cemented a spot nor has he gained much muscle mass in that time.

collins came to the club at 70 kg very skinny. given that a normal weight gain for a player is around 3 or 4 kg per yr. andy would need for his height and the way he goes about it another 5kg hes 2 yrs of that but with another pre season he should be ready to be a good part of rotations.

have a look at taylors frame hes in the same boat he will take time to put on the size and find a real core strength.
dont kid yourself that such a skinny kid like taylor is going to just step up and dominate it wont happen.

and i will reiterate taylors kicking is a concern what i have seen of it anyway.

finally collins is a mid playing forward while he develops in all areas to me taylor is a forward who may or may not be able to play mid field.

from what i have learnt over the yrs its easier to turn a mid into a forward than a forward into a mid.

 

[MightyTiger]

tell me tugga why is it that its taken collins 4 yrs to start to get a regular game. it will be the same for taylor.

while im at it what i have seen of taylor collins is a better kick.

finally collins is a mid who wasnt played there but still did well enough in a role while his body slowly developed.

why is it we have pidgeon holed collins as a forward when nothing could be farther from the truth.

If DH saw Collins as a midfielder don't you think he would of played him there permanently ? I mean we are crying out for a outside mid with skills even Nahas got a gig running through there towards the end of the year and he is a frekin midget compared to Collins who himself is very small for his age + time spent on the senior list yet you claim Collins was the man, now either you know more then DH or you have NFI and over-rate AC way too much.

Nahas averaged 14.0 Disposals a game and averaged 1.0 goals a game in 2009 for a total of 21 Goals.

Nahas in 2010 Averaged 12.5 Disposals and averaged 0.9 Goals per game for a total of 13 Goals.

Collins Averaged 14.0 Disposals per game with a average of 1.0 Goals per game for a total of 15 goals for 2010.

Oh and Nahas also averaged 4.6 tackles per game where as Collins averaged 3.7.

Now I'm a bit confused, many people are wanting Nahas to be delisted/traded yet when you compare his stats to the love child of ours in Collins his stats are quite the same if not a tad better for being on the list for a couple years less.

Over-rating much? I think so.

 

[Bazzar]

Yeah we're talking about Bazzar here....

On the brightside though..he did just declare Taylor delist material....almost a guarantee he'll be a gun now.

Your opinion/my opinion.... Lets bookmark it and revisit in 12 months time.

 

[tugga]

Re: questions re Grigg/collins trade

collins came to the club at 70 kg very skinny. given that a normal weight gain for a player is around 3 or 4 kg per yr. andy would need for his height and the way he goes about it another 5kg hes 2 yrs of that but with another pre season he should be ready to be a good part of rotations.

have a look at taylors frame hes in the same boat he will take time to put on the size and find a real core strength.
dont kid yourself that such a skinny kid like taylor is going to just step up and dominate it wont happen.

and i will reiterate taylors kicking is a concern what i have seen of it anyway.

finally collins is a mid playing forward while he develops in all areas to me taylor is a forward who may or may not be able to play mid field.

from what i have learnt over the yrs its easier to turn a mid into a forward than a forward into a mid.

lol
Collins is not a mid.

 

[blaisee]

This trade happened because Gc would of taken Grigg in the PSD, and they wont touch Houli, plain and simple. And because the tigers rate Grigg as a genuine midfielder who will play on the ball in round 1 next year while collins wont and cant. They rate Grigg>Collins and thats why they traded him. Its really Collins for Houli and Grigg, which is an excellent deal for the tigers.

 

[MightyTiger]

Re: questions re Grigg/collins trade

collins came to the club at 70 kg very skinny. given that a normal weight gain for a player is around 3 or 4 kg per yr. andy would need for his height and the way he goes about it another 5kg hes 2 yrs of that but with another pre season he should be ready to be a good part of rotations.

have a look at taylors frame hes in the same boat he will take time to put on the size and find a real core strength.
dont kid yourself that such a skinny kid like taylor is going to just step up and dominate it wont happen.

and i will reiterate taylors kicking is a concern what i have seen of it anyway.

finally collins is a mid playing forward while he develops in all areas to me taylor is a forward who may or may not be able to play mid field.

from what i have learnt over the yrs its easier to turn a mid into a forward than a forward into a mid.

That just doesn't make sense at all, you say Taylor is undersized yet you say Collins came to the club weighing only 70KG, now if my maths are correct Taylor is Taller 7kg heavier then Collins was when he first came to the club and yet you still say hes under-sized.

And finally if Collins was a mid playing forward I'm sure someone at the club far smarter then you or I would have noticed that and played him there don't you think?

santa I enjoy reading what you have to say most of the time but on this topic that is just dribble.

Taylors field kicking looked fine to me the only thing he struggled at was kicking for goal, which given the circumstances due to his lack of experience + nerves you can allow him a bit of leeway.

 

[jihg]

tell me tugga why is it that its taken collins 4 yrs to start to get a regular game. it will be the same for taylor.

while im at it what i have seen of taylor collins is a better kick.

finally collins is a mid who wasnt played there but still did well enough in a role while his body slowly developed.

why is it we have pidgeon holed collins as a forward when nothing could be farther from the truth.

Slowly developed his body I have seen glaciers develop faster.

 

[MightyTiger]

Re: questions re Grigg/collins trade

now i know people are deluded. with natural progression and potential upside i would take collins in front of jackson white what an absolute hack nason here we are talking undersized bloody hell and i think edwards.

patience has always been the buzz word with collins he will play in carltons midfield and he will be better than those i mentioned.

LOL you can't be serious can you?

 

[tugga]

This trade happened because Gc would of taken Grigg in the PSD, and they wont touch Houli, plain and simple. And because the tigers rate Grigg as a genuine midfielder who will play on the ball in round 1 next year while collins wont and cant. They rate Grigg>Collins and thats why they traded him. Its really Collins for Houli and Grigg, which is an excellent deal for the tigers.

GC don't have any PSD picks. That;s what their uncontracted picks for for.

 

[Mr Budda Bing]

Grigg is going to be a star.

Cousins made Collins look good.

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

Your opinion/my opinion.... Lets bookmark it and revisit in 12 months time.

Indeed I will.

He might well get delisted, but it won't be for lack of footballing ability as you've suggested.

 

[peejay]

Re: questions re Grigg/collins trade

now i know people are deluded. with natural progression and potential upside i would take collins in front of jackson white what an absolute hack nason here we are talking undersized bloody hell and i think edwards.

patience has always been the buzz word with collins he will play in carltons midfield and he will be better than those i mentioned.

Collins has no tank - therefore not a midfielder.

Its that simple.

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

Re: questions re Grigg/collins trade

He's not only serious but he's absolutely right.

Collins>Edwards>Jackson>White.

 

[Barnzy]

Re: questions re Grigg/collins trade

lol
Collins is not a mid.

Based off what?

 

[tugga]

Re: questions re Grigg/collins trade

Based off what?

lol
Based off every game he has played.

 

[tigs2010]

Collins is not and would never have been a mid.

i know someone involved in MC and they knew exactly this. cant play midfield to save himself.

also everyone claiming he is such a great kick need to look at some of his set shots for goal. he isnt a bad kick but he isnt as good as people make out.

has been massively over rated on this board.

 

[Barnzy]

Re: questions re Grigg/collins trade

lol
Based off every game he has played.

Given when he first broke into the team last year averaging 19 touches and a goal a game as a midfielder and looked right at home, I think you're mistaken.