Gubby has lost the plot!

Danny88

Club Legend
Mar 21, 2014
2,032
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With today's trades absolutely baffling in terms of what we got from what we gave...... I'm calling it early! Gubby has lost it


Off to the retirement home
 

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captainMyCaptain

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 30, 2011
7,030
4,926
Wollongong
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Actually Gubby did his job very well by moving on players who won't get a game when we need to reduce our list and in process creating some cap room, improving our points to get our gun local kids this year and and securing 2016 draft which is full of very highly rated NSW kids.
 

Danny88

Club Legend
Mar 21, 2014
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I suppose I'm annoyed we were in a strong position with picks 7+8 and rather try to trade out players to improve that position we appear to have settled for the academy kids

It could have been different
 

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Andre the Giant

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 20, 2012
5,071
5,451
Melbourne, VIC
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With today's trades absolutely baffling in terms of what we got from what we gave...... I'm calling it early! Gubby has lost it


Off to the retirement home
This is an ignorant post.

None of us, regardless of how learned we think we are, will really be able to make a call on our trading this year for 4 or 5 years.

As Gubby has stated publicly we have done an outstanding job in retaining the bulk of the core group of players to stay with the club and buy into a wage scale designed to not only deliver long term success but also allow us to keep the group together. The players have done this largely at personal expense rejected far greater offers and the lure of family and friends.

To implement such a scale comes at a cost with our TPP right on it's limit as well as having pressure to get our overall player numbers down and accumulate the necessary points needed to secure our Academy priorities.

Leon and the team have clearly identified the players they want to go on with and the ones whom were expendable and necessary to be used for us to achieve greater goals.

If our major goal was to accumulate picks and players in this draft than we have failed but clearly our objectives are to get the Academy boys, nullify the current issues and put ourselves in a strong position in 2016.

Gubby and the team have worked well to maximise the value of Treloar, bring in a gun and potential coach in Johnson and reduced TPP and numbers.

Don't worry about what simpleton pundits think of what we are doing, they are not aware of the entire picture and frankly do not really care. We are right on track.
 

dlanod

Moderator
Sep 14, 2006
40,813
52,351
Sydney
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2014:

O'Rourke + 43 for 19 and 40. Verdict: Lose. Not much we could do here IMO.
Patfull for pick 21. Verdict: Win. Identified a need and addressed it. Barring some freak accidents, Patfull was very good this year.
Jaksch, Whiley and pick 19 for pick 7. Verdict: Win. Turning a bunch of less valuable assets into a high pick for a list that needs to reduce over time but also adds to our high end talent.
Frost, pick 40 and pick 53 for pick 23. Verdict: Win. Frost could easily have been a nothing trade, but we got a usable pick out of it.
Boyd for pick 6 and Griffen. Verdict: Huge win. Effectively a five pick downgrade for a top quality midfielder.

2015:

Hampton for Adelaide's 2016 second rounder. Verdict: Huge win. The coaching staff had moved on from Hampton in favour of Wilson, so getting a second rounder in a year where we look to have four decent academy prospects is great.
Townsend + 120 for pick 70. Verdict: Nothing trade. Probably was delisted. Goodwill trade IMO.
Johnson for 2016 fifth round pick. Verdict: Nothing trade. Was already delisted for pick worth nothing.
Lamb, Phillips, Plowman, Sumner, pick 8 for picks 28, 77, 95 and Geelong's 2016 first rounder. Verdict: Seems like a lose. There's a couple of reasons I can see to do this, but I'll add another post on that.
Treloar and pick 28 for pick 7, pick 65 and Collingwood's 2016 first rounder. Verdict: win. Bit of a bad hand turned into more top end talent this year and next.
Bugg and pick 7 for picks 10, 43 and 64. Verdict: draw. Basically Bugg for pick 53 given the academy points totals, and it looks like we'll only be taking academy picks this year. Pretty much as expected.

So IMO we have one dubious trade we didn't have to do, one dubious trade we were basically forced into, a whole lot of wins and a few nothing trades. I think we've got a whole lot of overreaction over a single trade, while choosing to ignore all the other good work done.
 

dlanod

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Sep 14, 2006
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Ok, on the Carlton trade:

Lamb, Phillips, Plowman, Sumner, pick 8 for picks 28, 77, 95 and Geelong's 2016 first rounder

IMO it's basically two separate trades, both not great at initial glance:
  1. Pick 28 for Lamb, Phillips, Plowman, Sumner
  2. Pick 8 for Geelong's 2016 first rounder
Trade 1 seems to be a salary dump. We've got a whole bunch of players coming off contract in 2016 and I think this is a clearing of the deck to making signing them as straightforward as possible.

Trade 2 seems to be banking left-over academy points from this year into next year, where we might really need them if all four of our academy prospects develop well.

In both cases we've paid a premium - we probably drop four or five places on trade 2, and throwing Plowman into trade 1 seems like distinct overs. I really don't like the trade as a whole, and Trade 1 when split into two, but I can kind of see the thinking behind it.
 

Determinant

Moderator
Jan 9, 2012
6,946
6,077
Baulkham Hills
AFL Club
GWS
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St Kilda, Dragons, Bucks
2014:

O'Rourke + 43 for 19 and 40. Verdict: Lose. Not much we could do here IMO.
Patfull for pick 21. Verdict: Win. Identified a need and addressed it. Barring some freak accidents, Patfull was very good this year.
Jaksch, Whiley and pick 19 for pick 7. Verdict: Win. Turning a bunch of less valuable assets into a high pick for a list that needs to reduce over time but also adds to our high end talent.
Frost, pick 40 and pick 53 for pick 23. Verdict: Win. Frost could easily have been a nothing trade, but we got a usable pick out of it.
Boyd for pick 6 and Griffen. Verdict: Huge win. Effectively a five pick downgrade for a top quality midfielder.

2015:

Hampton for Adelaide's 2016 second rounder. Verdict: Huge win. The coaching staff had moved on from Hampton in favour of Wilson, so getting a second rounder in a year where we look to have four decent academy prospects is great.
Townsend + 120 for pick 70. Verdict: Nothing trade. Probably was delisted. Goodwill trade IMO.
Johnson for 2016 fifth round pick. Verdict: Nothing trade. Was already delisted for pick worth nothing.
Lamb, Phillips, Plowman, Sumner, pick 8 for picks 28, 77, 95 and Geelong's 2016 first rounder. Verdict: Seems like a lose. There's a couple of reasons I can see to do this, but I'll add another post on that.
Treloar and pick 28 for pick 7, pick 65 and Collingwood's 2016 first rounder. Verdict: win. Bit of a bad hand turned into more top end talent this year and next.
Bugg and pick 7 for picks 10, 43 and 64. Verdict: draw. Basically Bugg for pick 53 given the academy points totals, and it looks like we'll only be taking academy picks this year. Pretty much as expected.

So IMO we have one dubious trade we didn't have to do, one dubious trade we were basically forced into, a whole lot of wins and a few nothing trades. I think we've got a whole lot of overreaction over a single trade, while choosing to ignore all the other good work done.
The Carlton trade is the one that has me stumped, what is the point of picks 77 and 95?
The only possible reason is we think we can land a couple of the less regarded academy guys in the zero point zone..
 

dlanod

Moderator
Sep 14, 2006
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The Carlton trade is the one that has me stumped, what is the point of picks 77 and 95?
The only possible reason is we think we can land a couple of the less regarded academy guys in the zero point zone..
Why did we send 120 as part of the Townsend trade? I'm yet to ever figure out the stupid games clubs play with late picks.
 

Danny88

Club Legend
Mar 21, 2014
2,032
1,347
AFL Club
GWS
This is an ignorant post.

None of us, regardless of how learned we think we are, will really be able to make a call on our trading this year for 4 or 5 years.

As Gubby has stated publicly we have done an outstanding job in retaining the bulk of the core group of players to stay with the club and buy into a wage scale designed to not only deliver long term success but also allow us to keep the group together. The players have done this largely at personal expense rejected far greater offers and the lure of family and friends.

To implement such a scale comes at a cost with our TPP right on it's limit as well as having pressure to get our overall player numbers down and accumulate the necessary points needed to secure our Academy priorities.

Leon and the team have clearly identified the players they want to go on with and the ones whom were expendable and necessary to be used for us to achieve greater goals.

If our major goal was to accumulate picks and players in this draft than we have failed but clearly our objectives are to get the Academy boys, nullify the current issues and put ourselves in a strong position in 2016.

Gubby and the team have worked well to maximise the value of Treloar, bring in a gun and potential coach in Johnson and reduced TPP and numbers.

Don't worry about what simpleton pundits think of what we are doing, they are not aware of the entire picture and frankly do not really care. We are right on track.
Mate I'm entitled to an opinion just as much a the next bloke. You have put a positive spin on what is otherwise a comedic trade period. You are right, if our intention was to secure hopper and Kennedy exclusively then we succeeded.... But we are the laughing stock of the league and I'm pi**ed we didn't push to maximize our gains this draft
 

Giants FC

Premiership Player
Aug 2, 2005
3,298
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One thing this debacle proves beyond doubt is that the AFL has developed a draft & trading system that is so complicated that it is too hard for the typical supporter to understand.
 

_GT_

Never Surrender
May 24, 2014
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This is not a debarcle. Gubby has worked strategically, and has shown courage in his foresight. History will judge the ultimate success or failure of his strategy, but he gets nothing but admiration from me. yes, the current system has been immensely complicated thanks to the VFL whingers, but you have to work the system you are faced with. Gubby has gone all in, while the rest are tip toeing meekly.
 

RLGriffin

Cancelled
Jul 3, 2013
1
6
This is not a debarcle. Gubby has worked strategically, and has shown courage in his foresight. History will judge the ultimate success or failure of his strategy, but he gets nothing but admiration from me. yes, the current system has been immensely complicated thanks to the VFL whingers, but you have to work the system you are faced with. Gubby has gone all in, while the rest are tip toeing meekly.
With today's trades absolutely baffling in terms of what we got from what we gave...... I'm calling it early! Gubby has lost it


Off to the retirement home
I couldn't disagree more.
 

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