Game Day GWS Giants v Hawthorn, Round 21 - 19:50 AEST, Aug 09, 2019.

[skilts]

The channel 7 turds couldn't tongue Clarkson's nuts any harder.

What's wrong with that? I like to watch.

 

[skilts]

I know roaming Brian can be painful and often at times awkward, but there’s a pleasant human element to that cuts through the normal football talk that I don’t mind

He and channel 7 have created a great little persona for him

My son regularly works in the commentary box with Brian (he's a sound engineer), and holds him in high regard for being quite amusing, very personable and not at all up himself.

The only gripe he has about him is that he gets to see far more of him than he would like, when Brian strips off in front of him (in the commentary box), and gets changed into Channel 9 clobber before the game. Most peculiar, though I suppose Brian's used to doing that, having played footy for so long.

 

[skilts]

Still record low

The temperature? I lived in Canberra for three years. Tonight was a relative heat wave. The minus eight I experienced several times there certainly concentrates the mind. Brrr!

 

[hk89]

All season it has been shown that if you run against Hawthorn and move the ball forward at all costs they struggle.

Wet nasty conditions which suit that style.

We did the same thing to them last time in better conditions.

All teams struggle when they let the opposition move the ball forward at all costs. Hawthorn have been better than most sides this season at not letting the opposition do that to them - in all forms of weather. We've only had 100+ scored against us twice, and hasn't happened since round 5 (although with the lower scoring this year, not many are scoring over 100 now). The best defence in the competition according to the squiggle (in fact the best side in the competition overall according to the squiggle, because our defence was miles better than anyone elses by their metric, and so made up for our weak attack). Stopping 'move ball on at all costs' isn't why we are likely to miss finals, it is our inability to kick a score that puts us in front when our opposition does get a burst on.

 

[gutsroy]

GWS have significant outs, but it was still surprising that they copped an absolute touch-up.
Greene was fantastic for GWS, not too many others came along for the ride.
Worpel’s disposal wasn’t pristine, but he’s taken a huge step forward in Mitchell’s absence, was excellent.
Big result for the Hawks and well deserved.
The T-Shirt Clarko stuff is overegged, but by Christ the bloke can coach.

 

[HolyWars]

GWS have significant outs, but it was still surprising that they copped an absolute touch-up.
Greene was fantastic for GWS, not too many others came along for the ride.
Worpel’s disposal wasn’t pristine, but he’s taken a huge step forward in Mitchell’s absence, was excellent.
Big result for the Hawks and well deserved.
The T-Shirt Clarko stuff is overegged, but by Christ the bloke can coach.

If Worpel keeps it up we will effectively have two Tom Mitchells out there next season. He has really stepped up this season and I noticed last night he is starting to develop a little bit more on his opposite foot.

 

[Floppy]

Doesn't Worpel now statistically have the best second year of any player ever?? Like, better than Gablett and all.

 

[HolyWars]

Doesn't Worpel now statistically have the best second year of any player ever?? Like, better than Gablett and all.

He would be up there, but it's a bit hard to compare him to Gablett since he was primarily a forward at the same stage.

I did do a comparison with Judd at the same age since that is a little more fair and he has him covered. This does not mean he is better than Judd at the same age (he isn't), but he has him covered in most areas. However, we need to also remember it's a higher possession game these days.

 

[HairyO]

Take away the 2 ridiculous free kicks in front of goals and the Giants only kicked 2 goals for the entire game.

And for all their injuries we were missing a bunch of key players too.

I wonder how nervous WCE are.

 

[WWSD]

Take away the 2 ridiculous free kicks in front of goals and the Giants only kicked 2 goals for the entire game.

And for all their injuries we were missing a bunch of key players too.

I wonder how nervous WCE are.

Giants were missing 8-9 best 22 players. Nearly half of their team. Of course even with those key outs they still fielded a decent on paper. I think the biggest issue for the Giants is the ruck depth which could be exposed in the finals.

Kelly
Coniglio
Hopper
Ward
Patton
Taylor
Langdon
Himmelberg
Finlayson

 

[HairyO]

Giants were missing 8-9 best 22 players. Nearly half of their team. Of course even with those key outs they still fielded a decent on paper. I think the biggest issue for the Giants is the ruck depth which could be exposed in the finals.

Kelly
Coniglio
Hopper
Ward
Patton
Taylor
Langdon
Himmelberg
Finlayson

And we were missing 5 of our best 22.

Giants have incredible depth. We dont.

 

[M Malice]

The Giants are the Hawks bunnies like the Hawks are our bunnies.

 

[srobbo]

Haven't they won the same number as Essendon in the last 25 years? I'd find another point to have a go at them over.

Would you? I wouldn’t. My point in case....they’ve won the same as us in 25 years yet he thinks it’s ok to patronise. Yeah I can stand on my own two feet pal.

 

[Colonial]

Nothing good about it.

Good call

 

[WWSD]

The Giants are the Hawks bunnies like the Hawks are our bunnies.

Brisbane need to prove they can beat Hawthorn at the MCG first.

 

[gingernuts]

Clarkson is an actor playing the part of a magician. Unbelievable fooking coach

 

[Hawkforce]

Quite a few posters perhaps owe Clarko an apology for slagging his "no long sleeves" policy.

The bloke sets a standard. The bloke wins premierships.

He might just know what he's doing.

 

[Lsta062]

If the Lions and Tigers win this round the top 4 is virtually set, thank you Hawkers.

If Melbourne beats Collingwood and Brisbane wins against Gold Coast then Brisbane’s top 4 position is set. They cannot leave the top 4 as they’d be 3 games above 5th with 2 games remaining.

You can then tank Round 23 so we can lock in our spot

 

[Vindicater]

We did the same thing to them last time in better conditions.

All teams struggle when they let the opposition move the ball forward at all costs. Hawthorn have been better than most sides this season at not letting the opposition do that to them - in all forms of weather. We've only had 100+ scored against us twice, and hasn't happened since round 5 (although with the lower scoring this year, not many are scoring over 100 now). The best defence in the competition according to the squiggle (in fact the best side in the competition overall according to the squiggle, because our defence was miles better than anyone elses by their metric, and so made up for our weak attack). Stopping 'move ball on at all costs' isn't why we are likely to miss finals, it is our inability to kick a score that puts us in front when our opposition does get a burst on.

You did do the same thing to them so you would hope they would recognise that and change what they are doing.

Leon Cameron has got to go.

As for the movement thing. Second half of the season so far I have seen,

*North playing slow keepings off against you last week for a quarter and getting smacked. They opened the game up and then blew you away.

*Brisbane opened the game up after half and blew you away (This one you did kick yourself out of but once Brisbane opened up the game in the third quarter you looked toast)

*Essendon went full throttle from the start and handled you.

*I did not see the Sydney game so can't comment

It is why I think you are a really good chance of knocking West Coast off because they generally want to play slow which plays into your hands.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Surely Cameron under pressure. But he’s in NSW, So luckily can’t be targeted by Victorian media. Not gonna make top 4. The team underachieved under him.

Not sure what else you want Cameron to do bar go to CHB and try to boot it to himself 60m out?

I know GWS are struggling big time, but there was some worries, Mumford looks cooked and got beaten by Ceglar who had a shocker, They played some guys like Keeffe.Bonar.Stein who just looked average.

Bar Greene/Williams/Perryman a lot of guys didnt feel confident to run and take players on. I understand we clog the middle up pretty bad but we looked exposed with quick movement and that 40\50m bomb to a 2v2, Not sure if it was a lack of running from GWS or something. But it's not like we dont have some injuries to key players either.

We have looked exposed when teams are running hard and tackling harder. Simple work rate and daring football putting us under pressure, GWS did that only 15m all night and kicked about 4 goals in that time. Everything else was one way traffic.

 

[Back One Out]

Doesn't Worpel now statistically have the best second year of any player ever?? Like, better than Gablett and all.

Joel Selwood had a hell of a second year - 19 Brownlow votes and made the All Australian squad of 40

Worpel's 2019 shades Selwood's 2008 statistically, at least

26.5 disposals, 11.7 contested, 4.8 tackles, 0.3 goals
25.3 disposals, _8.8 contested, 3.3 tackles, 0.2 goals


The best second year that I can recall was Nat Fyfe's 2011 season when he was robbed by the All Australian selectors
Missed winning Freo's B&F by a bee's dick (by a couple of votes to Pav) but he was clearly Freo's best player.

 

[Colonial]

Not sure what else you want Cameron to do bar go to CHB and try to boot it to himself 60m out?

I know GWS are struggling big time, but there was some worries, Mumford looks cooked and got beaten by Ceglar who had a shocker, They played some guys like Keeffe.Bonar.Stein who just looked average.

Bar Greene/Williams/Perryman a lot of guys didnt feel confident to run and take players on. I understand we clog the middle up pretty bad but we looked exposed with quick movement and that 40\50m bomb to a 2v2, Not sure if it was a lack of running from GWS or something. But it's not like we dont have some injuries to key players either.

We have looked exposed when teams are running hard and tackling harder. Simple work rate and daring football putting us under pressure, GWS did that only 15m all night and kicked about 4 goals in that time. Everything else was one way traffic.

Perryman was horrible.

Only Tobes and Haynes can hold their heads up.

 

[Gavin Excell]

The vision of Jeremy Cameron shivering and holding his hands to his body to keep warm while Hawthorn players laughed about the snow was telling.

The reverse image of Hawthorn v Brisbane late 1980s 3/4 time when hawks players sought shelter from the heat

 

[La Di Da]

Or hair. A few players rather be in the hot showers shampooing their long hairdos.

Oldmanyellsatcloud.jpeg

 

[hk89]

You did do the same thing to them so you would hope they would recognise that and change what they are doing.

Leon Cameron has got to go.

As for the movement thing. Second half of the season so far I have seen,

*North playing slow keepings off against you last week for a quarter and getting smacked. They opened the game up and then blew you away.

*Brisbane opened the game up after half and blew you away (This one you did kick yourself out of but once Brisbane opened up the game in the third quarter you looked toast)

*Essendon went full throttle from the start and handled you.

*I did not see the Sydney game so can't comment

It is why I think you are a really good chance of knocking West Coast off because they generally want to play slow which plays into your hands.

Those are reasonable assessments, but in lots of those cases it is not the opposition opening the game up, it is us opening the game up because we've not scored enough, and are behind, and need to open it up to try to win after getting behind. Brisbane was the best example of that. Because we kicked 1.11 from set shots, the game was still close leading up to 3qrt time, despite us having the better of things. Then Brisbane got a quick burst of goals at the end of the third quarter, and we suddenly found ourselves a long way behind. It is hard to control your opposition for 100% of the game, and momentum shifts and bursts like that happen all the time. We did control their run on game well for the majority of the game. If we'd converted, their brief period when their run on killed us wouldn't have been an issue. North definitely outplayed us after quarter time, and Essendon had the better of us for most of the game, but in the Essendon case I also think we opened things up after getting a few goals behind heading towards 3qrt time and there was a lot of goals scored by both sides after that. We had 5 more inside 50s than you for the game, so again, if we'd been better going forward, we might never have been in a position to be forced to allow things to open up.

It isn't so much that we play well against teams that like moving the ball slowly. We do - but we've also been pretty good at making teams move the ball slowly, and so allowing us to defend the way we want to. Geelong are clearly in a run of poor form right now, but that game was a good example of that. Listening to the commentary in some of our wins holds good clues to this, they are often asking "Why isn't team Y taking the game on, they are just playing into Hawthorn's hands". You think their coach has instructed them to play that way? We've just been good at making it difficult to move the ball quickly out of our backline.


In the first half of the season our midfield got spanked almost every week. O'Meara was trying to do everything himself, and was getting heavy attention. Our somewhat better form after about round 15 was largely the result of two things, Worpel going from decent to very good, and Wingard getting on the park fit enough to help in the midfield. Since then we've gone from a team that was close to last in the clearances, to being fairly competitive at the stoppages against sides with semi decent midfields, and that has allowed us to get the ball inside 50 enough to give ourselves chances of winning. Unfortunately our forward line has underperformed in several of those games, so we probably haven't got enough wins to make finals.

Next year, if we can fix the forward line, and get Mitchell back into the middle, we will not have to so regularly open games up when we'd rather not, because the scoreboard pressure will more often be in our favour instead of against us. It isn't like we don't have scope for forward line improvement either. Our two 2018 AA forwards have had close to their worst years for us up forward. This will likely be Breust's second fewest goals in his career since his debut year, and
the only year Gunston has averaged less goals since arriving at Hawthorn was when he played down back for a large chunk of the season in 2017. Those
two are 27 and 28 so should be in their prime. Gunston had an injury issue pre-season , and Breust just hasn't got going this year. Hopefully we get
more out of both of them in 2020, and having Mitchell back should see us move the ball inside 50 a bit more often that we have been too.