GWS is the AFL's biggest problem - not North, GC, or Tassie

[madmug]

I got them from the "average precipitation days" on those pretty Wiki climate charts, but only took them from March to September to focus on the footy season.

True though, as long as the roof extends over the fans, I'm okay watching wet weather footy.

As a matter of interest, how many wet footy matches have you seen either Hawthorn or NM play in Tassie?

Wind at Boot park is about the worst of it I'd suggest.

Even cold weather isn't an issue like Europe or North America.

Canberra & Launceston would be the toughest places for night games in Winter (apart from Ballarat maybe). Hobart would be usually 4-5c less cold but still chilly unless rugged up & under cover (plus the rum )

Best to stick to afternoon footy in most places anyway.

 

[BigVic]

Should drop the name GWS and go with "Giants" and play 4 home games in Canberra

 

[Walshawk]

Its not a silver bullet, but I reckon there's a case for taking the Illawarra and the Southern Highlands out of the Swans academy zone.

The Swans already have priority access to kids in most of a city of 4m as well as NSW's 2nd biggest city Newcastle.

They don't need the 3rd biggest city, Wollongong, too.

Between the Southern Highlands and the Illawarra you've essentially got the equivalent of the entire population of Tassie.

Give GWS Illawarra, S Highlands, and let them play a couple games in the Gong instead of Canberra. Get the players to do a couple outreach programs with the local kids each year.

Unlike Canberra, people in the Southern Highlands and the Illawarra are actually close enough to Sydney to attend home games at Olympic Park if they're motivated.

I know the current facilities are pretty limited but it would turn into a more beneficial arrangement for the AFL as a whole.

(apologies to any diehard GWS supporters in Canberra who currently make the journey on the regular)

I like it, but the zone change would be a big loss for GWS. Canberra has produced dozens and dozens of great AFL Players. And plenty more from Wagga, etc. Pretty sure that the Gong/Illawarra has produced only one player ever.

 

[Gigantor]

Its not a silver bullet, but I reckon there's a case for taking the Illawarra and the Southern Highlands out of the Swans academy zone.

I still remember when all the Victorian clubs jacked up about the Giants having the far Southern NSW (along the Murray River) as their zone, merely because they grabbed one decent player out of Albury. I can't even remember who it was now.
As we sit here, seems absolutely ridiculous that the AFL caved in to them.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Move them to Canberra full time and call them the Canberra Giants. Problem sorted

 

[RedV3x]

Should drop the name GWS and go with "Giants" and play 4 home games in Canberra

Should drop the name GWS and go with "Giants" and play all games in Sydney.

 

[RedV3x]

I still remember when all the Victorian clubs jacked up about the Giants having the far Southern NSW (along the Murray River) as their zone, merely because they grabbed one decent player out of Albury. I can't even remember who it was now.
As we sit here, seems absolutely ridiculous that the AFL caved in to them.

no, very predictable IMO.

 

[parano1a]

I bet the people in Leichardt, Drummoyne or even Ashfield don't see themselves as being 'West' or in GWS, certainly not 'Westies'.

Why do the Wests Tigers play games at Leichardt then?

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Didn't we have this same discussion 2 years ago about the Suns ?

GWS will be fine.

Tassie is not coming in (least for another 10 years minimum)

Reinstate their COLA and they will be okay.

Only mistake they made was not sacking Leon Cameron

Leon Cameron

Age

53

Ht

185cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.2

4star

K

12.4

5star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.9

3star

No current season stats available

D

20.8

5star

K

14.4

5star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.8

3star

2 years ago. They will be fine.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Should drop the name GWS and go with "Giants" and play 4 home games in Canberra

Their podcast mentions early on that they would attempt to lean more heavily on the Giants brand. Apparently Gil wanted to just call them Giants FC from the start.

Personally, I think that just puts off two bases. Canberra won't fully accept them while they're based out of Sydney, and you'll lose Sydneysiders with fewer games and less Sydney identity.

 

[madmug]

Why do the Wests Tigers play games at Leichardt then?

Because Wests Tigers are an amalgamated team of Balmain Tigers who's home ground was Leichhardt Oval, & Western Suburbs Magpies who's home ground was Lidcombe Oval.

So the new team plays at both Leichardt Oval & way out west at Campbelltown.

I lived for a while at Ashfield, & use to meet friends at the Ashfield Leagues Club, Western Suburbs leagues club. Now called Wests Ashfield Leagues Club.

My friends were NRL followers so one got an 'education' on such things.

 

[Gigantor]

Their podcast mentions early on that they would attempt to lean more heavily on the Giants brand. Apparently Gil wanted to just call them Giants FC from the start.

Personally, I think that just puts off two bases. Canberra won't fully accept them while they're based out of Sydney, and you'll lose Sydneysiders with fewer games and less Sydney identity.

The money from the ACT Government is pretty good money, can't really see a club like the Giants knocking that back on some sort of misguided principle.

Manuka Oval averages are better than the Showgrounds average, that will probably remain the case for a few years at least.

I doubt having a few games in Canberra per year really affects the Sydney attendances, not to mention that the Showgrounds are out of action for a few weeks every year, in weighing it all up, very, very hard to find fault in the current Canberra connection.

 

[Makeshift Park]

I like it, but the zone change would be a big loss for GWS. Canberra has produced dozens and dozens of great AFL Players. And plenty more from Wagga, etc. Pretty sure that the Gong/Illawarra has produced only one player ever.

Ha, I actually mean keep the division of GWS and the Swans zone maps the same (keep Canberra with GWS) but just add Wollongong and the highlands to the giants.

The point I was trying to make (probably poorly) is that GWS having West and southern NSW and Canberra as part of their zone may be good for player recruitment, but it’s pretty ordinary when it comes to building a reliable base of supporters that will attend home games. For the most part, the distances are just too big.

But there’s a whole legion of people who already commute from the southern highlands and Illawarra to Sydney for work and uni. My hypothesis is that if GWS was allowed to invest in those communities, it would pay dividends in terms of building new audiences.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

I still remember when all the Victorian clubs jacked up about the Giants having the far Southern NSW (along the Murray River) as their zone, merely because they grabbed one decent player out of Albury. I can't even remember who it was now.
As we sit here, seems absolutely ridiculous that the AFL caved in to them.

I think its pretty obvious why that area is football heartland that’s not what gws academy is supposed to be for is it. Yeah it might have only been one player but Wayne Carey came from that region it would have been an unfair advantage if gws got direct access to another player like him

 

[RedV3x]

Yeah it might have only been one player but Wayne Carey came from that region it would have been an unfair advantage if gws got direct access to another player like him

Why ?

 

[Canberra Pear]

The money from the ACT Government is pretty good money, can't really see a club like the Giants knocking that back on some sort of misguided principle.

Manuka Oval averages are better than the Showgrounds average, that will probably remain the case for a few years at least.

I doubt having a few games in Canberra per year really affects the Sydney attendances, not to mention that the Showgrounds are out of action for a few weeks every year, in weighing it all up, very, very hard to find fault in the current Canberra connection.

What's your position on how many Canberra games there are? I saw a few disgruntled posts from GWS fans this year about the extra game. From a Canberra perspective, I feel like three games is too few, but would Sydney fans actually be happy with fewer than eight?

I've already broken down how the Canberra deal isn't that financially beneficial to GWS. Of the $2.3m per year, $1.15m goes to the ACT academy, so only $1.15m goes to the Giants' coffers. The match fee is about $400k per AFL men's match. That's way lower than Tasmania (about $1m) or Cairns ($650k). Which means Canberra gets an annual preseason match, an annual AFLW match, and a prominent advertising spot on the guernsey all for free. Even selling just one game and the guernsey spot would cover the shortfall.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Why ?

The idea of the gws academy is to convert people that wouldn’t normally be playing Aussie rules those southern areas are already afl heartland hence why gws shouldn’t have access

 

[Gigantor]

I think its pretty obvious why that area is football heartland that’s not what gws academy is supposed to be for is it. Yeah it might have only been one player but Wayne Carey came from that region it would have been an unfair advantage if gws got direct access to another player like him

As it happens, the region where Carey came from still remains in the GWS zone.
In the end, it was still a knee jerk reaction over nothing.

 

[Walshawk]

What's your position on how many Canberra games there are? I saw a few disgruntled posts from GWS fans this year about the extra game. From a Canberra perspective, I feel like three games is too few, but would Sydney fans actually be happy with fewer than eight?

I've already broken down how the Canberra deal isn't that financially beneficial to GWS. Of the $2.3m per year, $1.15m goes to the ACT academy, so only $1.15m goes to the Giants' coffers. The match fee is about $400k per AFL men's match. That's way lower than Tasmania (about $1m) or Cairns ($650k). Which means Canberra gets an annual preseason match, an annual AFLW match, and a prominent advertising spot on the guernsey all for free. Even selling just one game and the guernsey spot would cover the shortfall.

Sure, but 5K at Showgrounds another three times a year is a lot worse for GWS.

 

[tandino]

It's a 30 year project, at least.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Sure, but 5K at Showgrounds another three times a year is a lot worse for GWS.

It's a bit ironic, but longer term, Western Sydney crowds will be better with fewer Canberra games. Other than the previously mentioned apathy of a part-time team with one foot in another market, you need to build up a consistent routine of attendance, which is hard to do with only seven or eight games.

It's frustrating from a Canberra perspective. We're holding up our end of the bargain, we bring in the crowds, we're a massive market compared to Darwin, we even have more AFL fans than Hobart. But a perceived reliance on Canberra from GWS often precludes us as an expansion option. I honestly wish GWS the best, but I wish they'd hurry up with the off-field improvements so everybody doesn't think they need Canberra so much.

 

[RedV3x]

The idea of the gws academy is to convert people that wouldn’t normally be playing Aussie rules those southern areas are already afl heartland

Yes

hence why gws shouldn’t have access

Why ?

 

[Tackle Bag]

Should stop playing games in Canberra right away. Commit to western Sydney and play as many games at home as possible. It’ll take a generation and you need to be playing locally as much as the fixture allows.

Find another solution for Canberra. At some point someone in the media will realise Canberra Kangaroos has a nice ring to it and the push will be on.

 

[Gigantor]

Should stop playing games in Canberra right away. Commit to western Sydney and play as many games at home as possible. It’ll take a generation and you need to be playing locally as much as the fixture allows.

Find another solution for Canberra. At some point someone in the media will realise Canberra Kangaroos has a nice ring to it and the push will be on.

North Melbourne played 3 games per season at Manuka Oval from 2001 to 2006 (six seasons).

This was at the very end of the roos' golden era, so were still a very strong team, I think Carey was still in the team at that point.

First game at Manuka in 2001 against St Kilda attracted 11k. The 2nd game against Port attracted 10k. Then the 3rd game was actually the final round of the season, and they played the pies in front of 13k. Eddie famously declared that the pies would never again return to Manuka. And they haven't.

 

[RedV3x]

North Melbourne played 3 games per season at Manuka Oval from 2001 to 2006 (six seasons).

This was at the very end of the roos' golden era, so were still a very strong team, I think Carey was still in the team at that point.

First game at Manuka in 2001 against St Kilda attracted 11k. The 2nd game against Port attracted 10k. Then the 3rd game was actually the final round of the season, and they played the pies in front of 13k. Eddie famously declared that the pies would never again return to Manuka. And they haven't.

Canberra seems a much much better fit than Tasmania for North Melbourne in any game-playing.