GWS is the AFL's biggest problem - not North, GC, or Tassie

How to fix GWS?

  • Relocate to Canberra?

    Votes: 39 22.5%
  • 11 games in Western Sydney? Name change to Western Sydney

    Votes: 44 25.4%
  • Merge with a Vic club?

    Votes: 5 2.9%
  • Just be patient?

    Votes: 85 49.1%

  • Total voters
    173

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RedV3x

It's about time some mods started being fair
Dec 14, 2015
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Doesn’t matter how anti Tasmania you might be you have to admit there no were near the risk involved for a tas team opposed to gws

I'm pro Tasmanian AFL team. I'm just giving you the facts. The AFL does not see Tasmania as expansion but as consolidation.
The GWS was brought in as expansion and a model was created to underwrite that expansion namely the added media rights.
Tasmania adds to the media rights if the new team produces a major upswing in AFL viewing.
If all goes well for the Tasmanian AFL team it will still be a boutique operation.
If all goes well for GWS the potential is unlimited.
If all goes pear-shaped for the Tasmanian AFL team it will need assistance.
It's already gone pear-shaped for the GWS and they seem to be rebounding.

You do realise that by constantly attacking GWS you are only weakening the case for a Tasmanian AFL team.
 
Apr 24, 2018
3,181
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I'm pro Tasmanian AFL team. I'm just giving you the facts. The AFL does not see Tasmania as expansion but as consolidation.
The GWS was brought in as expansion and a model was created to underwrite that expansion namely the added media rights.
Tasmania adds to the media rights if the new team produces a major upswing in AFL viewing.
If all goes well for the Tasmanian AFL team it will still be a boutique operation.
If all goes well for GWS the potential is unlimited.
If all goes pear-shaped for the Tasmanian AFL team it will need assistance.
It's already gone pear-shaped for the GWS and they seem to be rebounding.

You do realise that by constantly attacking GWS you are only weakening the case for a Tasmanian AFL team.
I'm pro Tasmanian AFL team. I'm just giving you the facts. The AFL does not see Tasmania as expansion but as consolidation.
The GWS was brought in as expansion and a model was created to underwrite that expansion namely the added media rights.
Tasmania adds to the media rights if the new team produces a major upswing in AFL viewing.
If all goes well for the Tasmanian AFL team it will still be a boutique operation.
If all goes well for GWS the potential is unlimited.
If all goes pear-shaped for the Tasmanian AFL team it will need assistance.
It's already gone pear-shaped for the GWS and they seem to be rebounding.

You do realise that by constantly attacking GWS you are only weakening the case for a Tasmanian AFL team.
I do find it funny when someone raises points about a Tasmanian team there facts. But if anybody does the same for gws there attacking them just a little bit of double standards there 👌
 

RedV3x

It's about time some mods started being fair
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I do find it funny when someone raises points about a Tasmanian team there facts. But if anybody does the same for gws there attacking them just a little bit of double standards there 👌

I find it crazy that someone wanting to establish a Tasmanian AFL team feels the need to denigrate another AFL team to get their way.
P.S. Note the use of "their".
 

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Bjo187

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Apr 30, 2020
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Tony Shepard was on sportsday stating they have a few ideas they are working on for marketing etc for next year to get crowds back. One of his ideas was selling travel packages to Melbourne based club supporters to fly up there to watch their teams play the giants. Wouldn't you wanna attract more of your own fans as opposed to people flying in to fill some seats?

Here is the exact problem with gws, you have old rich, private school raised white guys using their ideas as to how to attract crowds. I doubt they have much idea what appeals to kids of ethnic backgrounds from low to middle income communities, they should be getting their advice from people in the 15 to 30 age demographic that grew up in western sydney. These AFL suits are so out of touch it's not funny and shows why the club hasn't made many inroads in 10 years.
 
Apr 9, 2003
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Not a very convincing interview from the Giants chairman. Blaming Covid for the decline in their Sydney attendances when this affected all sporting teams there (and other cities) and stating they are considering playing the big Victorian clubs at the SCG doesn't inspire much confidence that he sees a bright future in western Sydney. .

Obviously, winning more will help but that's not a given especially given the advantages they had in their formation and early years of a plethora of high draft picks is now fading. The Swans have a great team again after just a couple of rebuilding years and I can't see the AFL too readily agreeing to giving the Sydney teams a substantial increase in their salary cap and soft cap.

 

Aussie in exile

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 21, 2013
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So I’m not allowed to state facts about the lack of support they have received in western Sydney
I'm pro Tasmanian AFL team. I'm just giving you the facts. The AFL does not see Tasmania as expansion but as consolidation.

I do find it funny when someone raises points about a Tasmanian team there facts. But if anybody does the same for gws there attacking them just a little bit of double standards there 👌
Some posters struggle with facts if it doesn't suit there agenda
 
Mar 24, 2017
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Not a very convincing interview from the Giants chairman. Blaming Covid for the decline in their Sydney attendances when this affected all sporting teams there (and other cities) and stating they are considering playing the big Victorian clubs at the SCG doesn't inspire much confidence that he sees a bright future in western Sydney. .

Obviously, winning more will help but that's not a given especially given the advantages they had in their formation and early years of a plethora of high draft picks is now fading. The Swans have a great team again after just a couple of rebuilding years and I can't see the AFL too readily agreeing to giving the Sydney teams a substantial increase in their salary cap and soft cap.

Wow. Swans and NRL crowds have held post cOVID. GWS are kidding themselves if they think that is the issue.

Before the Giants entered, the Swans were playing their big games in Western Sydney. So more people were attending games in Western Sydney before the AFL had a club in Western Sydney.

The only was playing big games @ SCG can work is if they dump Canberra and play 3 @ SCG, 8 @ Showgrounds. They would need a rebrand to West/Western Sydney as well.
 
Last edited:

Bjo187

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Apr 30, 2020
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Not a very convincing interview from the Giants chairman. Blaming Covid for the decline in their Sydney attendances when this affected all sporting teams there (and other cities) and stating they are considering playing the big Victorian clubs at the SCG doesn't inspire much confidence that he sees a bright future in western Sydney. .

Obviously, winning more will help but that's not a given especially given the advantages they had in their formation and early years of a plethora of high draft picks is now fading. The Swans have a great team again after just a couple of rebuilding years and I can't see the AFL too readily agreeing to giving the Sydney teams a substantial increase in their salary cap and soft cap.


I also don't get this whole narrative that Cola should apply to both the Swans and Lions as well. They have nowhere near the issues of retention as the new clubs. I would be happy for both the Giants and Suns to have a little bit more money in their salary cap until they are well-established, but the swans and lions are flying and have the advantage of their academy over most other clubs already. Players actually want to go play at those clubs if anything, it's about retention, only give advantages to those that struggle in that department.
 
Apr 9, 2003
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Wow. Swans and NRL crowds have held post cOVID. GWS are kidding themselves if they think that is the issue.

Before the Giants entered, the Swans were playing their big games in Western Sydney. So more people were attending games in Western Sydney before the AFL had a club in Western Sydney.

The only was playing big games @ SCG can work is if they dump Canberra and play 3 @ SCG, 8 @ Showgrounds. They would need a rebrand to West/Western Sydney as well.

Whilst they may get more supporters of the big Vic clubs coming to matches in Eastern Sydney you'd have to think it would be very marginal.

There are 20k more seats at the SCG and the ground would seem even more empty and devoid of atmosphere than the Showgrounds which would further discourage people from attending.

Aren't most of their fans supposed to be living in Western Sydney? Why would they be happy and prefer to travel cross-town to Moore Park? From what I see on TV few go to the SCG now for derby matches.

I doubt Healy thought this idea up himself which rather suggests it's being seriously considered.
 
Nov 26, 2016
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Whilst they may get more supporters of the big Vic clubs coming to matches in Eastern Sydney you'd have to think it would be very marginal.

There are 20k more seats at the SCG and the ground would seem even more empty and devoid of atmosphere than the Showgrounds which would further discourage people from attending.

Aren't most of their fans supposed to be living in Western Sydney? Why would they be happy and prefer to travel cross-town to Moore Park? From what I see on TV few go to the SCG now for derby matches.

I doubt Healy thought this idea up himself which rather suggests it's being seriously considered.

I cannot overstate how terrible of an idea home games at the SCG are.

It spits in the face of Western Sydney fans and muddies the identity even further. Especially if it's played at the expense of a game at Giants Stadium.

You're correct about most of their fans being western-based. Based on 2018 figures, five of the top six LGAs for GWS members are all west of Olympic Park. Fifth place was Canada Bay, east of Olympic Park, but still closer to Giants Stadium than the SCG.

The only way I could see a home game being okay at the SCG is if the Giants had retreated from Canberra and needed somewhere to play for over Easter. But even then I'd prefer my previously mentioned option of a blockbuster at Accor, or even Henson Park.
 

WagonBang

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They drew 7.7k v Essendon on weekend.

Why would they then move that game to the SCG? They couldn’t even half fill the 24,000 ground they call home.

If they want a bigger stadium and god knows why, there is a white elephant next door that holds 80k.

Such a huge brain fart from the Chairman. Moving games 20km east screams of failure.
 

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Bjo187

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I don't mind the idea of playing a game or two there per season. The reason being, I gather the Swans would have built up a lot of their supporter base by the SCG members (originally cricket fans) being able to attend for free and watch a game. Then they would have got hooked and adopted the Swans as their team.

I also think there is currently more AFL interest in those areas, so the Giants need to effectively be an 'all Sydney team' with their roots in Western Sydney, as I wouldn't be relying on just Western Sydney alone for supporters. I don't mind the idea if it is done correctly and that would be the SCG being utilised for Giants games during the showgrounds unavailability period.
 
Nov 26, 2016
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I just listened to the podcast, and in Tony Shepherd's defence, to me, he didn't sound that keen on the SCG idea.

Gerard Healy (I think) raised the question and Shepherd responded "yeah, look, that's something we're having a look at."

Interestingly, they also said that the Giants have also just recommenced school visits after 2.5 years, after they used to do them weekly. I wonder if that's had an effect on crowds. We used to get free tickets as kids when footy players came to visit, and be more inclined to watch as we'd just met them. I wonder if that lack of connection has contributed to lower crowds.
 
Mar 24, 2017
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I just listened to the podcast, and in Tony Shepherd's defence, to me, he didn't sound that keen on the SCG idea.

Gerard Healy (I think) raised the question and Shepherd responded "yeah, look, that's something we're having a look at."

Interestingly, they also said that the Giants have also just recommenced school visits after 2.5 years, after they used to do them weekly. I wonder if that's had an effect on crowds. We used to get free tickets as kids when footy players came to visit, and be more inclined to watch as we'd just met them. I wonder if that lack of connection has contributed to lower crowds.
It would be a factor. But NRL clubs and Swans have not been able to do promo either. There are lots factors here. They really need to do the research and get this right. Soon.
 
Nov 26, 2016
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It would be a factor. But NRL clubs and Swans have not been able to do promo either. There are lots factors here. They really need to do the research and get this right. Soon.

Agreed that they need to really address this, but I think community engagement and school visits may been been more important for the Giants. The Swans and NRL clubs already had a rusted-on base, the Giants need that visibility to remind people they're there.

Mostly, I think the pandemic just took the wind out of their sails. They barely played two home games across 2020/2021 and didn't have the rusted-on base to bounce back like the rest of Sydney clubs. I get it, the Giants haven't been overly watchable this year.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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I'm pro Tasmanian AFL team. I'm just giving you the facts. The AFL does not see Tasmania as expansion but as consolidation.
The GWS was brought in as expansion and a model was created to underwrite that expansion namely the added media rights.
Tasmania adds to the media rights if the new team produces a major upswing in AFL viewing.
If all goes well for the Tasmanian AFL team it will still be a boutique operation.
If all goes well for GWS the potential is unlimited.
If all goes pear-shaped for the Tasmanian AFL team it will need assistance.
It's already gone pear-shaped for the GWS and they seem to be rebounding.

You do realise that by constantly attacking GWS you are only weakening the case for a Tasmanian AFL team.
I'm not so sure its 'attacking' the club as such. People can be worried about the 'plan' for generational change to grow the club. Will it be enough? When will it be seen? Is Generational change a real thing?
How are these concerns weakening anything, let alone a case for Tasmania.
As pointed out, Western Sydney has NRL teams who don't get AFL type crowds after 100 years. so why will GWS get anything like the crowds the Swans do?
One hopes the sponsorship & memberships make the place viable.
Selling games surely isn't a vote of confidence by the club or AFL?
What comment here isn't legitimate?
I hope they grow substantially ASAP. It'd be good for the code & the AFL who've stumped up a heap of cash for this expansion. If not, it'll be a huge financial disaster & a hit to the game overall.
 

RedV3x

It's about time some mods started being fair
Dec 14, 2015
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It's about time some mods started being fair
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I'm not so sure its 'attacking' the club as such.

I'm sure.

People can be worried about the 'plan' for generational change to grow the club.

I'm encouraged by the plan for generational change. it makes sense.

Will it be enough? When will it be seen? Is Generational change a real thing?

Well it was happening and then stalled.
It's all about onfield performance (and the off field performance that affects onfield performance.
How are these concerns weakening anything, let alone a case for Tasmania.

You're adding doublt to new enterprises.

As pointed out, Western Sydney has NRL teams who don't get AFL type crowds after 100 years. so why will GWS get anything like the crowds the Swans do?

I think you answered your own question.
What is stopping GWS getting Swan's attendances - onfield performances.
In sydney, everyone loves a winner babe.

One hopes the sponsorship & memberships make the place viable.

The plan was for the expanded media rights to underwrite the expansion.
So the constant talk of "cost" is a true misrepresentation.

Selling games surely isn't a vote of confidence by the club or AFL?

Or any other club - right. So why are people attacking GWS ?

I hope they grow substantially ASAP. It'd be good for the code & the AFL

It's a catch 22 situation.
A successful GWS would significantly de-Victorianise the AFL
but for that to happen you would have to firstly De-Victorianise the AFL.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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I'm sure.



I'm encouraged by the plan for generational change. it makes sense.



Well it was happening and then stalled.
It's all about onfield performance (and the off field performance that affects onfield performance.


You're adding doublt to new enterprises.



I think you answered your own question.
What is stopping GWS getting Swan's attendances - onfield performances.
In sydney, everyone loves a winner babe.



The plan was for the expanded media rights to underwrite the expansion.
So the constant talk of "cost" is a true misrepresentation.



Or any other club - right. So why are people attacking GWS ?



It's a catch 22 situation.
A successful GWS would significantly de-Victorianise the AFL
but for that to happen you would have to firstly De-Victorianise the AFL.

Answering questions with questions doesn't make for very useful discussion.

I said in another post Sydney Swans would have attracted the bulk of AFL supporters in the city many years ago. That, & the historic attendance at sports events in West Sydney will limit theGWS crowd potential. ie Penrith are a powerhouse NRL team with 15k home ground crowds.

So WHERE will big GWS crowds come from? Its a legitimate concern. Did the AFL ever answer that?
 
Mar 24, 2017
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Answering questions with questions doesn't make for very useful discussion.

I said in another post Sydney Swans would have attracted the bulk of AFL supporters in the city many years ago. That, & the historic attendance at sports events in West Sydney will limit theGWS crowd potential. ie Penrith are a powerhouse NRL team with 15k home ground crowds.

So WHERE will big GWS crowds come from? Its a legitimate concern. Did the AFL ever answer that?
Penrith holds 22,500 and has a few sellouts. They are getting a brand new 25k stadium.
 

RedV3x

It's about time some mods started being fair
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I said in another post Sydney Swans would have attracted the bulk of AFL supporters in the city many years ago.

Yes, just like the Eagles, Crows, Lions and the founding VFL clubs.

That, & the historic attendance at sports events in West Sydney will limit the GWS crowd potential.

No, because the Swans drew little support from out west so the potential for a team in western Sydney, the geographical heart of Sydney,
with a population of just under 3 million is enormous.

ie Penrith are a powerhouse NRL team with 15k home ground crowds.

Yes, because the chocolate solders have an inferior product - simple.
The people of western Sydney are not generically different from the rest of Australia
so there is no reason why the people of western Sydney cannot become GWS fans.

So WHERE will big GWS crowds come from?

The potential for a team in western Sydney, the geographical heart of Sydney,
with a population of just under 3 million is enormous.

Its a legitimate concern.

Only for you.
Did the AFL ever answer that?

Yes, from the very beginning the AFL have said something like "
the potential for a team in western Sydney, the geographical heart of Sydney,
with a population of just under 3 million is enormous."
 
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