Opinion Half glass full? Half glass empty? Be careful the broken glass?

[therubbernub]

I was in nappies the last time the CFC did anything of real relevance

And will be in nappies the next time- according to some

 

[Bordertoon]

I’ll read all the other posts in this thread in the fullness of time, but at this point I don’t want my thoughts to be influenced too much by what others have written, so I’ll just shoot from the hip ... and then perhaps meekly retract 80% of what I’ve written later, or apologise profusely for repeating what scores of others have already said.

Anyway, despite the weekend, in terms of “where we’re at” as a club, I’m glass three-quarters full tbh. Providing that we hold on to it and develop it properly, then I’m convinced that we’ve amassed enough young talent to be a significant force when that talent has fully grown, in terms of its physical size, fitness base, AFL experience, footy IQ, psychological maturity, and team cohesion. Obviously though, that’s still several years away, and in the meantime we have a serious shortage of quality players in their mid 20s with 100+ games, which leaves us vulnerable to what happened against North. Moving forwards, imo we need to show enough improvement to attract those sort of players, which I think we can do, especially from next season onwards. However, at that point, when we’re more competitive in terms of wins and losses, and are emerging as a “destination club” for players and agents who can see beyond tomorrow, I think that we need to keep our eye firmly on the prize, which is a 17th flag won primarily through our current cohort of youth. In other words, I don’t think that we should be stocking up too much on mid-20s 100+ gamers - we just need enough to aid the development of our core group of young players, and to plug any glaring holes in our list, such as suitable coverage for Kreuz and some genuine small forwards.

The quarter of the glass that I fear - but definitely don’t know - might be empty, pertains to our coaches. I’m confident that we’ve put the right people into many important positions, including the likes of SOS, Liddle, Lloyd, Russell, and (even) Wallsy. However, my jury is still out on whether we have the right mix of coaches to take us beyond the development phase and into the phase where we have a full blown tilt at winning our 17th flag. Tbh, I don’t have anywhere near enough football knowledge to say whether our current coaches are up to that task, but hopefully key people at our club do. However, what I can say is that with all the incredibly hard yards that Bolts has put in over “The Journey”, I hope that we don’t pull the trigger on him prematurely, and that we give him a fair and decent chance to prove that he’s the man to lead us to our next premiership. I genuinely hope that he is, btw, as quite simply I like the guy, and I fully appreciate all of his efforts up to this point. For these reasons, it would annoy me big time to see us bow to typically ill-informed media pressure, by recruiting a proven Supercoach on megabucks (like Eddie’s generous nomination, or the likes of Roos), who would then ride in as the saviour, when in truth they might be mostly capitalising on the heavy lifting already done by Bolts.

In summary, I think that we’re living through a period of challenges and opportunities, but if as a club we play most our cards right (no club plays them all right imo), then I’m confident we can come out of this period with a platform for sustained success, one worthy of both our history and growing membership.

 

[Thehurdle]

If we beat the Pies on Saturday (highly unlikely) I’ll be thinking we’re on track and a bit stiff not to be 4-4, and above expectations. One week at this stage can change perspectives profoundly. Arguably the time to assess progress of a multi-year rebuild is not after a dreadful performance, which was the first of the year. It’s hard, but I’m giving them the rest of 2019 to show me what they’ve got.

 

[pinot]

Many of us already know the result before the ball is bounced. Anothing other than a loss is a surprise victory.

This is a pathetic situation that needs addressing as I feel the on field group is in an uncontrollable downward spiral

 

[Jabba73]

Many of us already know the result before the ball is bounced. Anothing other than a loss is a surprise victory.

This is a pathetic situation that needs addressing as I feel the on field group is in an uncontrollable downward spiral

If you are expecting a loss every time we play, the club has only let you down three times in the last 30 odd games, as the media keeps reminding everyone.

It surprises me that you get so upset with a club that almost always meets your expectations.

 

[RAPPA]

Two things are hurting the most with the team:
1. when the hope and expectation before each game is sapped so quickly when the team puts up poor first quarter/half efforts.
2. The fact that, aside from the doggies game, we have been generally producing 2 good quarters, 1 average quarter and 1 poor quarter. And it becomes a flip of the coin as to where each quarter fits into that algorithm.

I’ll keep turning up to each game in Melbourne but it has to (I hope) click at some point.

 

[VeinGlorious]

It's sometimes maybe good and sometimes maybe ****.

Perfect

Couldn’t agree more

 

[ferrisb]

peasant stand on hill long time before roast duck fly in mouth.........

Confucius say: Man wearing thy around neck been extinct long time.

 

[Alphonse_]

Wonder how the glass half empty Liverpool fan are feeling right now ?

No one can actually know for sure what the future holds, who can categorically say we won't beat the Pies this week ?

A great man once said, "life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get", our season and rebuild is rather like that.

 

[footyfan1978]

I’ll read all the other posts in this thread in the fullness of time, but at this point I don’t want my thoughts to be influenced too much by what others have written, so I’ll just shoot from the hip ... and then perhaps meekly retract 80% of what I’ve written later, or apologise profusely for repeating what scores of others have already said.

Anyway, despite the weekend, in terms of “where we’re at” as a club, I’m glass three-quarters full tbh. Providing that we hold on to it and develop it properly, then I’m convinced that we’ve amassed enough young talent to be a significant force when that talent has fully grown, in terms of its physical size, fitness base, AFL experience, footy IQ, psychological maturity, and team cohesion. Obviously though, that’s still several years away, and in the meantime we have a serious shortage of quality players in their mid 20s with 100+ games, which leaves us vulnerable to what happened against North. Moving forwards, imo we need to show enough improvement to attract those sort of players, which I think we can do, especially from next season onwards. However, at that point, when we’re more competitive in terms of wins and losses, and are emerging as a “destination club” for players and agents who can see beyond tomorrow, I think that we need to keep our eye firmly on the prize, which is a 17th flag won primarily through our current cohort of youth. In other words, I don’t think that we should be stocking up too much on mid-20s 100+ gamers - we just need enough to aid the development of our core group of young players, and to plug any glaring holes in our list, such as suitable coverage for Kreuz and some genuine small forwards.

The quarter of the glass that I fear - but definitely don’t know - might be empty, pertains to our coaches. I’m confident that we’ve put the right people into many important positions, including the likes of SOS, Liddle, Lloyd, Russell, and (even) Wallsy. However, my jury is still out on whether we have the right mix of coaches to take us beyond the development phase and into the phase where we have a full blown tilt at winning our 17th flag. Tbh, I don’t have anywhere near enough football knowledge to say whether our current coaches are up to that task, but hopefully key people at our club do. However, what I can say is that with all the incredibly hard yards that Bolts has put in over “The Journey”, I hope that we don’t pull the trigger on him prematurely, and that we give him a fair and decent chance to prove that he’s the man to lead us to our next premiership. I genuinely hope that he is, btw, as quite simply I like the guy, and I fully appreciate all of his efforts up to this point. For these reasons, it would annoy me big time to see us bow to typically ill-informed media pressure, by recruiting a proven Supercoach on megabucks (like Eddie’s generous nomination, or the likes of Roos), who would then ride in as the saviour, when in truth they might be mostly capitalising on the heavy lifting already done by Bolts.

In summary, I think that we’re living through a period of challenges and opportunities, but if as a club we play most our cards right (no club plays them all right imo), then I’m confident we can come out of this period with a platform for sustained success, one worthy of both our history and growing membership.

Excellent summation of where we are at right now and for not too distant future. Refreshing to read some clear calm thinking in a week we played very poorly.

 

[blue healer]

Simpson, an unproven coach, took the Eagles to a grand final in his second year. Beveridge, another unproven coach, took home the premiership in his second year. Lyon was poached and took Freo to their first grand final in his second year.

I'm not in a position to know if there's a better option for us than Bolton, or who that may be. What I do know is those teams above identifed better options, and improved their results because of it. I'd hope we look to do the same if it doesn't click before the end of the year, because I do not believe 1-6 type records is the best this team can achieve.

Would you have been saying the same thing about Fagan at Brisbane this time last year?

I'm a bit more concerned about the cards in the coaches hands ATM than I am about how he deals them.

 

[CFC18]

Would you have been saying the same thing about Fagan at Brisbane this time last year?

I'm a bit more concerned about the cards in the coaches hands ATM than I am about how he deals them.

People keep pointing to the Lions as though nothing changed and it just randomly clicked for them. It didn't. Their results stem from bringing in a new coach.

Their inability to win in the first half of last year is likely the result of them learning a new game plan.

Their 10 wins since the second half of last season is likely the result of them having had time to adjust to those changes.

Those are tangible reasons to point to - new coach, effective game plan, adjustment period, results.

Meanwhile we're hanging our hat on it having occured due to hitting some arbitrary period after starting a rebuild, and expecting the same will happen for us, despite not changing what has produced a 4-35 record.

 

[Arr0w]

People keep pointing to the Lions as though nothing changed and it just randomly clicked for them. It didn't. Their results stem from bringing in a new coach.

Their inability to win in the first half of last year is likely the result of them learning a new game plan.

Their 10 wins since the second half of last season is likely the result of them having had time to adjust to those changes.

Those are tangible reasons to point to - new coach, effective game plan, adjustment period, results.

Meanwhile we're hanging our hat on it having occured due to hitting some arbitrary period after starting a rebuild, and expecting the same will happen for us, despite not changing what has produced a 4-35 record.

Again this is only an opinion

"Their results stem from bringing in a new coach." You are doing a disservice to when they started the rebuild and the players they selected, prior to Fagan taking control. One person is never the factor for success or failure.

 

[pinot]

Wonder how the glass half empty Liverpool fan are feeling right now ?

No one can actually know for sure what the future holds, who can categorically say we won't beat the Pies this week ?

A great man once said, "life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get", our season and rebuild is rather like that.

Thats what its all about except Anfield knew it was going to be a win. An emphatic win probably not.

 

[Bordertoon]

Excellent summation of where we are at right now and for not too distant future. Refreshing to read some clear calm thinking in a week we played very poorly.

Thanks FF78. Tbh, I’m just relieved that I haven’t been inundated with comments like “what are you smoking?” or “open your eyes, we’ve won 4 in 39 games ffs”, because I know that not all on this forum share my optimism. I find it reassuring to know that some do though, including posters whose views I find the most considered and well thought through on BF.

 

[El Topo]

No one would be pulling their hair out over the Norf game had the team not shat the bed against GC, Hawks and to a lesser extent Sydney/Port. There's a long way to go but it's imperative that the boys convert their opportunities to WINS from this point.

 

[Soapy V]

Some really good well considered posts in here. Most I agree with and some I don't but they all have merit. Enjoyable to read.

A genuine question for people that are disappointed with what has happened this year and I will preface it by saying I was disgusted with the effort on Sunday and was really disappointed with the loses against GCS & Hawthorn.

If people look at our list and analyse it properly for experience and having time to build an AFL body could we have expected much more?

On the weekend our side was like an Under 19 v a mature VFL side. First time without some senior players and IMO we sh1t ourselves
When our young players have good games we do well like SPS & McKay v Bulldogs but they are still inconsistent especially without help
We just need to get Walsh Dow LOB McKay Stocker Setterfield Kennedy Fisher etc etc as quickly as possible to 50 games plus along with 3 plus pre seasons. Until that happens we will be very inconsistent

There are things being done I question but overall I like what's happening. I will always focus on the bigger picture especially after bad days.

Important trade period coming up.

As for Bolton I can't judge him until he has the cattle. What I see at the moment is a coach purely coaching for the future and IMO that's gutsy especially in today's environment.

 

[Bordertoon]

No one would be pulling their hair out over the Norf game had the team not shat the bed against GC, Hawks and to a lesser extent Sydney/Port. There's a long way to go but it's imperative that the boys convert their opportunities to WINS from this point.

I agree FTR, and on that score I thought Sellers (on 360) had a valid point a few weeks ago, when he said that if our boys want Bolts to stay around (which he was very confident they did), then it would help if they started to win a few games for him. That might be a bit much to expect over the next couple of weeks - although especially if Kreuz comes back in, I have a feeling we’ll give a good account of ourselves against the Pies - but hopefully in the not too distant future we can start to bring our win-loss ratio into alignment with the quality of footy that we’ve produced over the majority of this season.

 

[Soapy V]

Many of us already know the result before the ball is bounced. Anothing other than a loss is a surprise victory.

This is a pathetic situation that needs addressing as I feel the on field group is in an uncontrollable downward spiral

It's being addressed. Unfortunately in this game under this system it takes time.

As SOS said he can build a finals side quickly but to build a side for long term success takes time. In that case I am happy to wait. I couldn't think of anything worse than being an average side stuck around the middle of the ladder

 

[JustaBattler]

It seems that general opinion is that the disappointment with losing a few games when we were in a position to win them was made much worse by the way the side seemed to capitulate to Norfs ie it was the way the team was beaten rather than the loss. I agree with this - and to be frank, I don't think the outs on the day can be used as an excuse for the way the side rolled over like a puppy - again.

I keep harping on this - but the #1 missing ingredient is consistent mongrel- any player can show appetite for tackling- probably the most obvious example has always been young Jack - last year too small to be effective but always trying - this year increased size sees his efforts more often than not halving contests -next year he will start winning them - but only because he cares for the contest. Too many obviously don't.

Fix the mongrel factor and maintain the intent for 4 quarters across the park and results will come - because there is a fair amount of class in the side- but continue to play blokes not up to the basic requirement - and I don't expect to see sustainable improvement. Continue top play senior players who wont tackle and dont have the intestinal fortitude to cop it when it is their turn - and the kids will copy same.

Bolton has to grow some fangs if he really wants to stay in the job and he can leave off the "I love my players" BS didn't like that one iota.

 

[CFC18]

If people look at our list and analyse it properly for experience and having time to build an AFL body could we have expected much more?

You're asking a loaded question. We've had four off-seasons to put the list together, so we shouldn't be in a position to send out a team unable to compete.

We had Lobbe, Fasolo, Kennedy, Lang, Setterfield and Garlett available as players that have been in the system for several years. We shouldn't have players on our list that cannot be called upon when needed.

Could we have expected more than the worse record I've ever seen a team achieve? Yes I think that is a reasonable expectation.

 

[Soapy V]

I keep harping on this - but the #1 missing ingredient is consistent mongrel- any player can show appetite for tackling- probably the most obvious example has always been young Jack - last year too small to be effective but always trying - this year increased size sees his efforts more often than not halving contests -next year he will start winning them - but only because he cares for the contest. Too many obviously don't.

Agree 100%. We lack the attack on the ball needed and "tackling" really is an issue. We miss too many. Part of this is youth BUT we miss too many for that to be the only issue

 

[Soapy V]

You're asking a loaded question. We've had four off-seasons to put the list together, so we shouldn't be in a position to send out a team unable to compete.

Maybe it's some peoples expectations vs reality? We are just into our 4th year. Our list is younger than ever. Have we really been unable to compete? My assessment re this year we have been good overall.

I said in my season preview I expect much more consistent performances but we will have some good days and some bad days. Still on track IMO

 

[Broadside]

As SOS said he can build a finals side quickly but to build a side for long term success takes time.

I totally get where SOS is coming from but I would suggest based on the last 3 years' evidence that a top 8 side and form at the right time trumps pure list talent. Otherwise GWS would have 3 in a row.

 

[therubbernub]

Some really good well considered posts in here. Most I agree with and some I don't but they all have merit. Enjoyable to read.

A genuine question for people that are disappointed with what has happened this year and I will preface it by saying I was disgusted with the effort on Sunday and was really disappointed with the loses against GCS & Hawthorn.

If people look at our list and analyse it properly for experience and having time to build an AFL body could we have expected much more?

On the weekend our side was like an Under 19 v a mature VFL side. First time without some senior players and IMO we sh1t ourselves
When our young players have good games we do well like SPS & McKay v Bulldogs but they are still inconsistent especially without help
We just need to get Walsh Dow LOB McKay Stocker Setterfield Kennedy Fisher etc etc as quickly as possible to 50 games plus along with 3 plus pre seasons. Until that happens we will be very inconsistent

There are things being done I question but overall I like what's happening. I will always focus on the bigger picture especially after bad days.

Important trade period coming up.

As for Bolton I can't judge him until he has the cattle. What I see at the moment is a coach purely coaching for the future and IMO that's gutsy especially in today's environment.

All the rhetoric coming out of the club has been supportive of BB and his coaching for the future. It would be very dissappointing if that has changed seemingly overnight