Opinion Half glass full? Half glass empty? Be careful the broken glass?

[ferrisb]

gee, that's a cynical exercise pretending they give a **** about your opinion.........outsourced no doubt......

He was convincing. Don't think it was outsourced, unless he had an excellent script and a lot of training...

I was really impressed with the phone call (until the end). Not because my opinion is important but because I thought the club was being proactive and trying to generate goodwill following the last fortnight.......aaaand then raffle tickets.....

 

[thylacine60]

I get they (we) need revenue..........just seems so underhand......

 

[bluebrew]

Some really good well considered posts in here. Most I agree with and some I don't but they all have merit. Enjoyable to read.

A genuine question for people that are disappointed with what has happened this year and I will preface it by saying I was disgusted with the effort on Sunday and was really disappointed with the loses against GCS & Hawthorn.

If people look at our list and analyse it properly for experience and having time to build an AFL body could we have expected much more?

On the weekend our side was like an Under 19 v a mature VFL side. First time without some senior players and IMO we sh1t ourselves
When our young players have good games we do well like SPS & McKay v Bulldogs but they are still inconsistent especially without help
We just need to get Walsh Dow LOB McKay Stocker Setterfield Kennedy Fisher etc etc as quickly as possible to 50 games plus along with 3 plus pre seasons. Until that happens we will be very inconsistent

There are things being done I question but overall I like what's happening. I will always focus on the bigger picture especially after bad days.

Important trade period coming up.

As for Bolton I can't judge him until he has the cattle. What I see at the moment is a coach purely coaching for the future and IMO that's gutsy especially in today's environment.

Great post but for mine, It was a given that once we cleared the decks and pursued youth we would be undersized.
That after 3 years the players from the first year are still undersized is even more of a concern.

I think the "rebuild" needs to encompass all of the club from medical to conditioning and line coaches.
So Far I have seen no real hunger to do 2 of those Although the Russell appointment partially addresses it I feel there are more to go.
For this iteration of CFC to be the best it can be we need to get more industry leaders into positions in our club.

 

[footyfan1978]

certainly longer term supporters know - often within 5 minutes - not sure if the newer group have been infected with that skill yet........

I knew within a minute last year v Fremantle there, we were gone. It is no fun so early in a game knowing you virtually certain to watch a loss that day.
The three clowns on Carlton podcast got their wish last round. No honourable losses was their stupid mantra last week. Be careful what you wish for....clowns..
Highlighted to me during that week that most Carlton fans are a bit torn in middle between what should be realistic expectations of a team with a lot of youth in side and just wanting wins via pure hope. I would have been frustrated with another honourable loss but totally disgusted with game virtually gone by quarter time. It was just stupid to expect us to win with so many guys we need missing. I hoped for a win but was concerned Simpson, Kreuezer and Newman out made it unrealistic to still be expecting a win. In contrast even though we playing a better team this win, I am realistic to think we will lose but my hopes for a surprise win are higher than last week as I think we will get back Kruezer and one or two more mature bodies to not have too many youngsters all out there at once. I WILL ACCEPT an honourable loss this week. I HOPE for something even better.
Go Blues!!

 

[Blue and Blue]

Great thread ferrisb

This rebuild is like no other

Off Field:

I think this speaks for itself, record membership on the back of 2 wins, securing better resources, more improved spending for talent identification and list management, AFL standard Fitness and High Performance, new Head of Football and while all boards have some form of fracture, this seems more united, but things can turn quickly

Recruiting & List Management

Finally after 30 odd years, since inception of the draft, we embraced a dedicated strategic rebuild, we were the last club by some years to follow this process where many have succeeded, yet others have stumbled. Never have I seen the quality/quantity of talented youth at our club at the one time. Tough decisions were made especially with most of the senior players, releasing the likes of Henderson, Bell, Menzel, Gibbs, Tuohy, Yarran, which allowed us to target talented draftees in the hope of creating a core group to evolve together.

Drafting - While I am generally very satisfied with our early picks (1st & 2nd round), most of a later/rookie/list-filler selections seem to have produced average to poor results. Adding all of the likes of Mullet, Shaw and O'Shea in one off season was flawed, rather than adding some 19-23 year old players initially overlooked, such as Banfield, Mihocek, Baker, Murphy (all from 2017 off season), then disaster selections/trades, Palmer, Smedts. While these late picks are not make or break, they do allow for a change of tact for list management in future years, we have to improve this area

Trading - https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/soss-trade-history.1175850/#post-52168160 (The reason I have used what other recruiters have done with the draft picks we traded out, is to show a comparison of SOS versus the rest of the industry)

With trading, it is more of a mixed bag. While trading out some senior players allowed us to secure the likes of Curnow, McKay who have shown signs they could dominate in the future, others have under-performed/minimal output largely due to ongoing injuries, Cuningham, Macreadie, Pickett, Marchbank, Williamson, Lang, Kennedy. Yet I believe all have AFL qualities to still offer team improvement and continuity, we just need to get them on the park for longer. Then there are others that have already been moved on, or may not make it, again, nothing that is make or break considering what we gave up

Mature Players

Many of the senior players we traded out, were for a premium reward and while some are still in the game, they too will be gone in the next 2-3 years. Many others have now left the AFL, so the decision to trade away the majority of our experience for youth is sound. I feel a couple of players should have been retained. Touhy would have added that mature age/body we are desperate to acquire now. Lamb is another that I believe could have played a short term role, especially as a small defender. Trading out these players has left a short term hole in experience and mature bodies, but I feel the most crucial loss is the collective disposal efficiency.

Acquiring senior players was and will be difficult given our past results. While it is easy to say that we should target player X Y Z, we have seen even players we wanted, Rockliff, Shiel etc, decide to head to clubs that are on the verge of rising or finals bound. This is now the most crucial short term strategy, to acquire senior players, but it has to be the right players. North moved on, a number of talented youth, which I feel still had time to develop, to secure Hall, Polec, Tyson, Pittard, none of which are players that I consider able to stem the tide on a consistent basis

Adding senior players/bodies in Newman, Fasolo, McGovern, Bugg, Goddard, was the right strategy, even if used when other senior players were injured, unfortunately most have also succumb to injury, then the Bugg affair.

Coaching & Game-plan

I remember many posters stating that Bolton would not succeed given he had never played the game at the highest level. Rather than detailing how flawed I found these comments, all I will say is Chris Fagan. Alan Joyce did two stints at Hawthorn, winning over 72% of games and 2 flags. If Joyce and his game-plan was at a level to produce these results, why when he finished his stint at the Dogs, did he win only 44% of his games? You don't need the best coach, game-plan and players, but you do need total buy-in

I think Bolton was the right appointment, a teaching, educating coach that was to take over a young developing side. Over the course of his tenure, the list has been stripped of senior players, especially in that crucial 23-27 age range. This year is the youngest, most inexperience team we have fielded since the rebuild started, but our average losing margin over the first 7 games this year is better than the same period for the previous 3 years

If I was being critical of Bolton and the game-plan, it would be come the start of last year. I feel he and the coaches adding too many layers to quickly, even with the injuries. Even some match-ups this year were concerning, the defensive 6 against the Swans, although the Jones v Buddy was successful, others were questionable. At times I feel we should be more attacking in certain games/periods, while other times tempo/chip football would be more appropriate, but perhaps that should be more player driven, especially with the change to the runner rules.

Hopefully the debate about being to0 tall defensively and forward continues to diminish. It was a fad, not a trend and sides like the Dogs,Pies and Tigers are now taller groups, WC also showed why it was a mere short term phase

For me, the first 3 years was about acquiring a list that could develop and evolve together for sustained success, the next 3 years is to focus on continuity, cohesion and competitiveness. If this is achieved, consistently for longer, the wins will flow. So far this year, many of these pieces have shown signs of improvement and while we could still encounter large losses, what we saw against North was unacceptable, players taking ownership was the first part of the response, actions this week is the next.

No other rebuilding club is more advanced, yet nor are we more advanced, given similar time frames

Moving forward

Anyone that suggests that this group will win #17, is merely guessing, but I am confident that the core group will come through together and play finals in 2020/21, then it will be reassessed again

If Bolton continues to ensure that this group remains competitive for the rest of the year, despite whether we win less than 6 games, then I believe he should be retained for his final year, then reassess. The flow on effect could allow us to acquire a better quality of player, as the Lions did. Although, he needs to release more players a little more to play with their natural flair.

Encouraging to read that most are now on-board with targeting a more appropriate ruckman, this should have been the focus 18 months ago. That ruckman, does not have to be elite, but must be competitive, mobile and competent when resting forward, players with similar styles to a Lycett, Ryder, Sinclair, Stanley. I know I differ from most, if not all when it comes to our other needs. Rather than specifically targeting a position, I feel we need to target attributes. IMHO, we need to target speed/better disposal efficiency players. As I mentioned earlier, not only did we trade out senior players, but we traded out better users of the pill

Mongrel/Hardness, hard to recall a time where we have lacked so many of this type of player. This also needs to be addressed quickly, either from within the group, but most likely through trades/drafting. Again they don't have to be elite, as we have seen with guys like Maynard from the Pies, who attacks each contest with intent, you know he is coming and will make you earn a possession. I would even forego elite disposal for some of these type of players

As we all know and recognize, like other rebuilding clubs, we have made mistakes and continue to do so, but we are on the right path

I read this and enjoyed it.
Two questions.
Are you doing book signings and is there a sequel in the works........?......

 

[ferrisb]

I get they (we) need revenue..........just seems so underhand......

So underhanded the Kiwis threatened to recall their ambassador...

 

[thylacine60]

quit it!

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

I read this and enjoyed it.
Two questions.
Are you doing book signings and is there a sequel in the works........?......

Arr0w can you provide a blurb also

 

[Jabba73]

He was convincing. Don't think it was outsourced, unless he had an excellent script and a lot of training...

I was really impressed with the phone call (until the end). Not because my opinion is important but because I thought the club was being proactive and trying to generate goodwill following the last fortnight.......aaaand then raffle tickets.....

So, did you buy tickets and what was the prize?

 

[Blue and Blue]

So underhanded the Kiwis threatened to recall their ambassador...

The club needs to repent and attend Chappell.

 

[Blue and Blue]

So, did you buy tickets and what was the prize?

Arr0w's book.....

 

[Jabba73]

Arr0w's book.....

Signed copy or GTFO

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

The club needs to repent and attend Chappell.

Which brother?

 

[Dadda Dave]

Key point that keeps giving me hope. Club and people in charge have not budged one bit. They are sticking to the process and know it's a "long term" rebuild. Everyone is on the same page. Bolton is coaching for the future and they all know it and support it.

The outside noise is just that, noise.

My only beef with Bolts at the moment is playing Ed out of position!! 4fs Bolts play him as a run with on the opposition's best mid ..

 

[Blue and Blue]

Which brother?

All three. They're like the three headed knight.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

All three. They're like the three headed knight.

Aaaahh brave sir Robin!

 

[macca_74]

HA! Just got a call from the club.

Hi ferris* this is John* from the Carlton footy club. I just wanted to see what you thought of our season so far?

What do I think? I think you're a day late (and a buck short^). I asked the mob this question yesterday. Get your own material, ffs!

Anyway, we had a quick chat; results disappointing, but seeing improvement, still a young list, big picture rebuild still on track etc.

^ and that's when he hit me with it.... The club IS a buck short and is running a raffle!

GOOD GRIEF! You're trying to squeeze more money out of members THIS WEEK?

That's worse timing than finishing Y2K preparations.... in 2019.... Worse timing than donating money to One Nation the day before the NRA story broke... Worse timing than investing millions of dollars into Princes Park right before suburban grounds stopped hosting AFL matches. Worse than... You get the point.... Let's just say it doesn't seem to be particularly good timing by the club.





*names have been changed to protect the guilty.

Lol I got this call last week after the Hawks game. For some strange reason I thought that the club was actually calling members for their thoughts. Had a pretty lengthy in depth conversation with the guy before he hit me with “well anyway I could talk footy all day but really calling about the raffle” at which time I felt a bit deflated and quite embarrassed.

 

[ferrisb]

Lol I got this call last week after the Hawks game. For some strange reason I thought that the club was actually calling members for their thoughts. Had a pretty lengthy in depth conversation with the guy before he hit me with “well anyway I could talk footy all day but really calling about the raffle” at which time I felt a bit deflated and quite embarrassed.

Carlton: we treat you like a number, not a member...

 

[JustaBattler]

My only beef with Bolts at the moment is playing Ed out of position!! 4fs Bolts play him as a run with on the opposition's best mid ..

I'm more concerned with in game changes to fix uneven match-ups or injury. Against Norfs and Hawfs - Ed could have been swung into on ball role and arguably should have been in order to stop the rot. Bolton has spoken about versatility required from players - I would have though any of SPS/Dow/Fisher or (dare I say it) Murphy could have been rotated onto HFF to replace Ed.

Looking forward - clearly there are questions around Setterfield's ability to run out 4 quarters- but they also have to try and pump games into him - Kennedy/Lang are probably rated below Setterfield and Murphy/Gibbons as two examples of redundancy based on form and output. Understandable if they too are coming back from their injury concerns and incapable of even matching Setterfield's run. Stocker needs to be played and from what I saw - he is looking like a player who will force the issue re his own inclusion.

 

[Blue and Blue]

I'm more concerned with in game changes to fix uneven match-ups or injury. Against Norfs and Hawfs - Ed could have been swung into on ball role and arguably should have been in order to stop the rot. Bolton has spoken about versatility required from players - I would have though any of SPS/Dow/Fisher or (dare I say it) Murphy could have been rotated onto HFF to replace Ed.

Looking forward - clearly there are questions around Setterfield's ability to run out 4 quarters- but they also have to try and pump games into him - Kennedy/Lang are probably rated below Setterfield and Murphy/Gibbons as two examples of redundancy based on form and output. Understandable if they too are coming back from their injury concerns and incapable of even matching Setterfield's run. Stocker needs to be played and from what I saw - he is looking like a player who will force the issue re his own inclusion.

I don't mind Setterfield having a year in the 2's. We saw what he can do. Just needs to get stamina and get that knee super good.

 

[JustaBattler]

I don't mind Setterfield having a year in the 2's. We saw what he can do. Just needs to get stamina and get that knee super good.

I reckon they want games into him ASAP but know that they will need to manage him - the two week break they probably took gladly - don't know why they bothered playing him in VFL tbh.

Kennedy/Lang/Polson have a lot of work to do to break into the side - Polson had his chances.

The problem Bolton has got is that his preferred starting on ball squad -SPS/Fisher/Dow along with Cripps and Kreuzer is not the biggest bodied combination in the game add Murphy/LoB to the mix and the rag doll potential increases - Cuningham/Gibbons are at most very part time rotators - shown nothing as on ballers really - whilst Kennedy/Lang are probably considered as depth players atm.

Right now the preferred midfield performance is extremely unreliable - hindering both forward and backs ability to perform optimally - if it comes down to needing Kreuzer working with Cripps and being competitive or no Kreuzer then repeats of Norfs - is the fair question to ask and only time will tell.

Boils down to SPS/Fisher/Dow's ability to play 4 quarters and really start to lift- a bit hard on Dow as a second year player - but he will have more AFL games under his belt than Kennedy pretty soon. Setterfield is a long long way back in game time so they need to play him.

 

[Blue and Blue]

I reckon they want games into him ASAP but know that they will need to manage him - the two week break they probably took gladly - don't know why they bothered playing him in VFL tbh.

Kennedy/Lang/Polson have a lot of work to do to break into the side - Polson had his chances.

The problem Bolton has got is that his preferred starting on ball squad -SPS/Fisher/Dow along with Cripps and Kreuzer is not the biggest bodied combination in the game add Murphy/LoB to the mix and the rag doll potential increases - Cuningham/Gibbons are at most very part time rotators - shown nothing as on ballers really - whilst Kennedy/Lang are probably considered as depth players atm.

Right now the preferred midfield performance is extremely unreliable - hindering both forward and backs ability to perform optimally - if it comes down to needing Kreuzer working with Cripps and being competitive or no Kreuzer then repeats of Norfs - is the fair question to ask and only time will tell.

Boils down to SPS/Fisher/Dow's ability to play 4 quarters and really start to lift- a bit hard on Dow as a second year player - but he will have more AFL games under his belt than Kennedy pretty soon. Setterfield is a long long way back in game time so they need to play him.

Seems that way as they picked him. Well thats good. Still a bit of juggling to see who wants it enough. This time next year I expect to see a really hard side stepping out and every spot earned on form.

 

[thylacine60]

Carlton: we treat you like 16 numbers, not a member...

 

[JustaBattler]

Seems that way as they picked him. Well thats good. Still a bit of juggling to see who wants it enough. This time next year I expect to see a really hard side stepping out and every spot earned on form.

I'm pretty confident this team is on the improve at least the Club now has a very good idea of what roles need to be filled with upgrades.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

Reckon C.Curnow could also spend 5-10 mins a qtr in the midfield !!