Review Hamish 2021

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mattymac

Nicks guys finish last
Jul 9, 2009
17,615
30,741
Yes
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
No
By my calculations our Round 1 2021 team will field just 2 first round draft picks from the last 10 years.

Doedee and McHenry.

Now, not all of that is Hamish's fault. Rendell picked Brad Crouch in 2011 (mini draft but we'll call him first round). Also a couple of years of draft sanctions in 2012-13.

But come on, 2014 to 2020 out of 10 first round draft picks we have 2 players in our starting line up for Round 1 2021.

Milera is injured again, granted. But even if he was fit, 30% is a terrible strike rate for the first round.

Let's hear some excuses.
 

Scorpus

Only Way Is Up
Apr 16, 2014
42,558
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Well we could be playing more first round picks, but instead we are hell bent on selecting guys like Kelly, Seedsman, Lynch and Murphy

You could argue our first rounders aren't good enough to play, but I highly doubt (given their lack of experience) that they would be worse investments than those players mentioned
 

OldCrowBloke

Club Legend
May 3, 2010
2,172
1,080
Canberra
AFL Club
Adelaide
By my calculations our Round 1 2021 team will field just 2 first round draft picks from the last 10 years.

Doedee and McHenry.

Now, not all of that is Hamish's fault. Rendell picked Brad Crouch in 2011 (mini draft but we'll call him first round). Also a couple of years of draft sanctions in 2012-13.

But come on, 2014 to 2020 out of 10 first round draft picks we have 2 players in our starting line up for Round 1 2021.

Milera is injured again, granted. But even if he was fit, 30% is a terrible strike rate for the first round.

Let's hear some excuses.
And to make it worse, only one of those two has shown any real form.
 

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mattymac

Nicks guys finish last
Jul 9, 2009
17,615
30,741
Yes
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
No
Well we could be playing more first round picks, but instead we are hell bent on selecting guys like Kelly, Seedsman, Lynch and Murphy

You could argue our first rounders aren't good enough to play, but I highly doubt (given their lack of experience) that they would be worse investments than those players mentioned
This is the kind of thing I'm looking for. Do we have no faith in Hamish's selections?

Does he draft kids with injury troubles or other reasons why they can't bust into the bottom of 18 teams?

What gives?
 

Scorpus

Only Way Is Up
Apr 16, 2014
42,558
100,803
AFL Club
Adelaide
I guess I should also note we've actually had 11 first round draft picks in the last 10 years, plus Brad Crouch. We've also traded two first round picks for Gibbs.

2011 - B. Crouch
2012 -
2013 -
2014 - Lever
2015 - Milera, Doedee
2016 - Gallucci
2017 - Fogarty, (Gibbs), (Gibbs)
2018 - Jones, McHenry
2019 - McAsey
2020 - Thilthorpe, Pedlar, Cook
 

Southerntakeover

Hall of Famer
Feb 21, 2006
30,809
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At vB temple...
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Well we could be playing more first round picks, but instead we are hell bent on selecting guys like Kelly, Seedsman, Lynch and Murphy

You could argue our first rounders aren't good enough to play, but I highly doubt (given their lack of experience) that they would be worse investments than those players mentioned
Yeah, look: either our selections are rubbish or our drafting is rubbish or both.

The club behaves as if its neither.
 

Scorpus

Only Way Is Up
Apr 16, 2014
42,558
100,803
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Do we have no faith in Hamish's selections?
This is my best guess: we do the work twice.

We pay Hamish to do the work and draft the players. Then we pay our coaches to make sure a second time that they are good enough to play AFL. Usually this results in these players not playing very much for years, as we spend years to figure it out.

It's redundant. If Hamish is making the selection in the first round, he is deeming the player is AFL quality. There should be little to no reason to reevaluate this. The only reason the players should not immediately play AFL is if they receive guidance from Hamish (eg. this KPD might be too skinny to play for 1-2 years) or medical.

Cases in point:

Doedee - needed perhaps a year to get his body right. Beyond that, no excuses. We should have been playing him at the start of the 2017 season as a minimum. Instead we played Jake Kelly

Milera - played 8 games in his debut year as two blocks of four. Was contributing enough as a first year mid-forward not to be dropped. Instead we played Jarryd Lyons all year then traded him. Bizarre

Gallucci - played one game in his debut year, despite being fit for AFL immediately. Instead we gift 16 games to Hampton, Beech and Menzel, who beyond that season play a combined 3 games.

Fogarty - 14 games across two years when we finished 11th and 18th. Has never played more than 4 games in a row, despite obviously declining performances from players such as Lynch, Walker and Jenkins. Stupid

McHenry - injury troubles in his first year, but plays 0 games. We give Richard Douglas 9 games then "retire" (delist) him in a year we finished 11th.

---

In these instances, we should have deferred to Hamish. Now I'm not saying Hamish got the picks right, but we didn't back in his judgement. We wasted years giving games to mediocre plodders, which we often went on to delist or trade for peanuts. Instead, we could have made earlier calls that hey, these first round picks are talented and maybe it's worth investing games into them instead of players like Curtly ******* Hampton.
 

jackster83

Rat in a cage
Jul 31, 2007
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It's hard watching guys like Oscar Allen, Aaron Naughton and Noah Balta, while Fog (taken in the same draft) is looking more like being the next Darcy Hourigan. He might still be able to turn it around, but it's getting harder to see it happening.

Think McHenry will surprise a few. He's behind where he should be (due to injuries mostly) but he seems to have improved.

Jones is a Kane Lucas style disaster. FFS even Gallucci was better.
 

mattymac

Nicks guys finish last
Jul 9, 2009
17,615
30,741
Yes
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
No
This is my best guess: we do the work twice.

We pay Hamish to do the work and draft the players. Then we pay our coaches to make sure a second time that they are good enough to play AFL. Usually this results in these players not playing very much for years, as we spend years to figure it out.

It's redundant. If Hamish is making the selection in the first round, he is deeming the player is AFL quality. There should be little to no reason to reevaluate this. The only reason the players should not immediately play AFL is if they receive guidance from Hamish (eg. this KPD might be too skinny to play for 1-2 years) or medical.

Cases in point:

Doedee - needed perhaps a year to get his body right. Beyond that, no excuses. We should have been playing him at the start of the 2017 season as a minimum. Instead we played Jake Kelly

Milera - played 8 games in his debut year as two blocks of four. Was contributing enough as a first year mid-forward not to be dropped. Instead we played Jarryd Lyons all year then traded him. Bizarre

Gallucci - played one game in his debut year, despite being fit for AFL immediately. Instead we gift 16 games to Hampton, Beech and Menzel, who beyond that season play a combined 3 games.

Fogarty - 14 games across two years when we finished 11th and 18th. Has never played more than 4 games in a row, despite obviously declining performances from players such as Lynch, Walker and Jenkins. Stupid

McHenry - injury troubles in his first year, but plays 0 games. We give Richard Douglas 9 games then "retire" (delist) him in a year we finished 11th.

---

In these instances, we should have deferred to Hamish. Now I'm not saying Hamish got the picks right, but we didn't back in his judgement. We wasted years giving games to mediocre plodders, which we often went on to delist or trade for peanuts. Instead, we could have made earlier calls that hey, these first round picks are talented and maybe it's worth investing games into them instead of players like Curtly ******* Hampton.
Good points. But why hasn't this changed despite a universal overhaul of the coaching panel?
 

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Scorpus

Only Way Is Up
Apr 16, 2014
42,558
100,803
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And I'll make my point clearer with this comparison

Since 2016

Milera - 62 games
Doedee - 30 games
Gallucci - 27 games
Fogarty - 24 games
Jones - 23 games
McAsey - 10 games
McHenry - 8 games

Total - 184 games

Lyons - 20 games the year we trade him
Henderson - 9 games the year we delist him
Van Berlo - 3 games in his final year
Hampton - 12 games total
Menzel - 4 games total
Beech - 3 games total
Gibson - 5 games total
Cheney - 8 games in year we delist him
Douglas - 9 games in year we delist him
Greenwood - 14 games in year we trade him after refusing to match his contract demands
Keath - 18 games in year we trade him after refusing to match his contract demands
Ellis-Yolmen - 10 games in year we let him walk as a free agent
Jacobs - 5 games in year we let him walk
Otten - 3 games in his final year
Jenkins - 11 games in the year we trade him
Gibbs - 3 games in year he retires
Crocker - 7 games then delisted
Hartigan - 12 games in the year we let him walk as a FA
Brad Crouch - 12 games in the year we push him out the door
Atkins - 4 games in the year we him walk as a FA
Betts - 21 games in year we sent him to Carlton

Total - 193 games

We have spent more games on players that we immediately got rid of than we have on long term first round draft pick prospects, since 2016

Seems like serious resource mismanagement to spend more games on players we deem aren't good enough, than on players someone at our club has already deemed to be AFL quality
 
Last edited:

mattymac

Nicks guys finish last
Jul 9, 2009
17,615
30,741
Yes
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
No
It's hard watching guys like Oscar Allen, Aaron Naughton and Noah Balta, while Fog (taken in the same draft) is looking more like being the next Darcy Hourigan. He might still be able to turn it around, but it's getting harder to see it happening.

Think McHenry will surprise a few. He's behind where he should be (due to injuries mostly) but he seems to have improved.

Jones is a Kane Lucas style disaster. FFS even Gallucci was better.
I just don't see it in McHenry. I don't see the smarts. Attacks everything at 100 mph but frequently just gets himself tangled up like a fish in a net. Would be better if he saw the net and went around it.

Would like to see some poise/ good decision making.
 

mattymac

Nicks guys finish last
Jul 9, 2009
17,615
30,741
Yes
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
No
And I'll make my point clearer with this comparison

Since 2016

Milera - 62 games
Doedee - 30 games
Gallucci - 27 games
Fogarty - 24 games
Jones - 23 games
McAsey - 10 games
McHenry - 8 games

Total - 184 games

Lyons - 20 games the year we trade him
Henderson - 9 games the year we delist him
Van Berlo - 3 games in his final year
Hampton - 12 games total
Menzel - 4 games total
Beech - 3 games total
Gibson - 5 games total
Cheney - 8 games in year we delist him
Douglas - 9 games in year we delist him
Greenwood - 14 games in year we trade him after refusing to match his contract demands
Keath - 18 games in year we trade him after refusing to match his contract demands
Ellis-Yolmen - 10 games in year we let him walk as a free agent
Jacobs - 5 games in year we let him walk
Otten - 3 games in his final year
Jenkins - 11 games in the year we trade him
Gibbs - 3 games in year he retires
Crocker - 7 games then delisted
Hartigan - 12 games in the year we let him walk as a FA
Brad Crouch - 12 games in the year we push him out the door
Atkins - 4 games in the year we him walk as a FA
Betts - 21 games in year before we sent him to Carlton

Total - 193 games

We have spent more games on players that we immediately got rid of than we have on long term first round draft pick prospects, since 2016
Nice.

Seems totally messed up.

Then I look at that list of 1st round draftees again and I'm only really sold on Doedee.

Pyke gave a lot of games to Milera but he actually seemed to get worse (have less impact) over time.
 

Scorpus

Only Way Is Up
Apr 16, 2014
42,558
100,803
AFL Club
Adelaide
Nice.

Seems totally messed up.

Then I look at that list of 1st round draftees again and I'm only really sold on Doedee.

Pyke gave a lot of games to Milera but he actually seemed to get worse (have less impact) over time.
Even if you're not sold on those first round players, the guys we actually played are even worse

For example why the fu** did we give Richard Douglas 9 games in his final year right before we delisted him when we didn't make finals, which is more than we gave our two first round draft picks in that year combined.

Makes you pull your hair out with that level of mismanagement.
 

jackster83

Rat in a cage
Jul 31, 2007
18,887
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ANNISOKAY
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Adelaide
Other Teams
Sin City Swamprats, Dethklok
And I'll make my point clearer with this comparison

Since 2016

Milera - 62 games
Doedee - 30 games
Gallucci - 27 games
Fogarty - 24 games
Jones - 23 games
McAsey - 10 games
McHenry - 8 games

Total - 184 games

Lyons - 20 games the year we trade him
Henderson - 9 games the year we delist him
Van Berlo - 3 games in his final year
Hampton - 12 games total
Menzel - 4 games total
Beech - 3 games total
Gibson - 5 games total
Cheney - 8 games in year we delist him
Douglas - 9 games in year we delist him
Greenwood - 14 games in year we trade him after refusing to match his contract demands
Keath - 18 games in year we trade him after refusing to match his contract demands
Ellis-Yolmen - 10 games in year we let him walk as a free agent
Jacobs - 5 games in year we let him walk
Otten - 3 games in his final year
Jenkins - 11 games in the year we trade him
Gibbs - 3 games in year he retires
Crocker - 7 games then delisted
Hartigan - 12 games in the year we let him walk as a FA
Brad Crouch - 12 games in the year we push him out the door
Atkins - 4 games in the year we him walk as a FA
Betts - 21 games in year we sent him to Carlton

Total - 193 games

We have spent more games on players that we immediately got rid of than we have on long term first round draft pick prospects, since 2016

Seems like serious resource mismanagement to spend more games on players we deem aren't good enough, than on players someone at our club has already deemed to be AFL quality
Jesus Christ.
 

mattymac

Nicks guys finish last
Jul 9, 2009
17,615
30,741
Yes
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
No
Mutineer why you going around disliking a post that wishes McHenry played smarter?

Genuine question.

Some say he's too small/slight but for mine it's more he plays dumb football. Frequently tries to take on more than he can handle. IMO would do himself a service by still going hard at it but also thinking about stage 2 of the operation i.e. how to use the footy if he wins it.
 

Mutineer

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Mutineer why you going around disliking a post that wishes McHenry played smarter?

Genuine question.

Some say he's too small/slight but for mine it's more he plays dumb football. Frequently tries to take on more than he can handle. IMO would do himself a service by still going hard at it but also thinking about stage 2 of the operation i.e. how to use the footy if he wins it.
Maybe wait until he's played 30 or 40 games at the level, he's hardly had a fair crack since joining us with injuries, a lot of his injury problems (back) stemming from a car accident where some tool over there ran up his ginger at traffic lights through no fault of his own. You're passing judgement way to early off of a very limited viewing. If you watched his last trial game without any bias he played quite well and delivered the ball with quite reasonable precision on most occasions hence he was a no brainer to be selected against Geelong. He's played the grand tally of 8 AFL games to date.
 

SellarStardom

Club Legend
Jul 2, 2008
1,360
1,246
Perth
AFL Club
Adelaide
I just watched the first quarter of Hawks game from last year. 15:40 in and FOG is there for a ball up, receives the tap, skips around and looks just like the midfield beast he was on debut in the SANFL.

Our coaching group......never play FOG in the middle.

Another part of that game reinforced how dangerous Jones, McAdam and now Rowe could be as deep forwards. Quick, zippy, marking small forwards, with Tex/Lynch/Berg types played up higher.

Our coaching group......never change our forward structure we have played with since 2012.

The regimented approach to our players definitely doesn't help the younger guys
 

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