Review Hamish 2021

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Interloperer

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Good luck finding some, other than that 1 game against the Weagles.
There's more than that, he had a few solid contributions. But the problem with the "Fogarty is being held back by Walker/some other forward" theory is that all Fogarty's best games have come when there are other relatively big names in the forward line.

He's perfect for the Mitch McGovern role where he's way better than most 6th choice forwards, but falls away completely when more responsibility is placed on him.
 

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BRL121

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Fog just isn't good enough, and probably won't win the position if/when Walker does pull up stumps.

Berg & TT appear to be easily our best tall forward options for the future.

Fog was a Hamish blunder. He's just not an AFL footballer.
All of this board were desperate for us to recruit Fog. We drooled when he fell to us. Dunstall thought he was fabulous.
If we sack Hamish for this "blunder", then we need to sack the whole of this board. ;)
 

1970crow

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We have 4 players on the list with between 50-150 games experience.
Seed Kelly Milera & Crouch, how many A graders to build a list around there?

8 players with between 50-200 games.
Lynch Laird Brown Smith added to the above 4.

The stability selection policy has screwed the club over.
You have to laugh at the posters who believe you don't change a winning team but then also love backing in the losing 22 because you don't make changes for change sake. They lives their continuity and they are still totally ignorant to how we managed to arrive with this experience profile.
 

Ozzie

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There's only one person to blame for our list being this poor. Steven ******* TRIGG. He had the chance to trade Yippett to the Lions. Said no, wanted a higher pick. 1 good player and 1 decent pick were offered. No he was adamant. Next year pondscum walked for nothing. Sanctions applied. Sydney tried to trade us 2 players, rejected by the DIMWIT in VFL House. So we lost 2 players in a trade and then get sanctioned for 4 more. SIX ******* players gone just like that. To make matters worse he then bowed down and sacked Rendell for a true statement taken way out of context to appease Dimwit's lacky who reported a PRIVATE conversation. Piss ******* weak.
Now we have a list of kids and poor quality seniors. DIMWIT said, "I looked at the Crows list and they can whether it." Yeah sure we we could.

Now we had a group of posters on here who constantly blame anyone and everyone for anything that goes wrong. I bet they loved Trigg and Dimwit in the day.
 

Mr_Moogle

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Under normal circumstances, in years where we were contending, they would always pick the strongest possible team. That meant picking the best players, hence the concept of the pecking order. Yes, the pecking order is heavily weighted towards the more experienced players.

I have never said that it was fixed or immovable.
If this normal ebb and flow you're talking about actually happened at Adelaide, people wouldn't be complaining. The 2018 season was the signal the footy gods gave us to start rebuilding and prioritising youth and we're now in 2021 and we still look like a club that selects it's youth through gritted teeth.

The other day you were on the board lamenting how Adelaide didn't hit the draft hard enough when it was contending. Now you're saying that not prioristing the youth is just a part of the natural cycle of being in a premiership window. You seem to be trying to have it both ways on this issue.
 
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ABAB

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There's only one person to blame for our list being this poor. Steven ******* TRIGG. He had the chance to trade Yippett to the Lions. Said no, wanted a higher pick. 1 good player and 1 decent pick were offered. No he was adamant. Next year pondscum walked for nothing. Sanctions applied. Sydney tried to trade us 2 players, rejected by the DIMWIT in VFL House. So we lost 2 players in a trade and then get sanctioned for 4 more. SIX ******* players gone just like that. To make matters worse he then bowed down and sacked Rendell for a true statement taken way out of context to appease Dimwit's lacky who reported a PRIVATE conversation. Piss ******* weak.
Now we have a list of kids and poor quality seniors. DIMWIT said, "I looked at the Crows list and they can whether it." Yeah sure we we could.

Now we had a group of posters on here who constantly blame anyone and everyone for anything that goes wrong. I bet they loved Trigg and Dimwit in the day.
Disagree there, most predict us to be as worst as Carlton since both lost 2 first rounders but we recovered very well due to excellent recruitment with the late draft picks. The issue was after CM with Pyke forced to play the senior players because he was still trying to get into finals in 2018-2019 but the CM had a more impact on the playing group than initially thought and here we are in 2021* after a very restricted 2020* season when we had significant change to coach and playing group.
 

1970crow

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There's more than that, he had a few solid contributions. But the problem with the "Fogarty is being held back by Walker/some other forward" theory is that all Fogarty's best games have come when there are other relatively big names in the forward line.

He's perfect for the Mitch McGovern role where he's way better than most 6th choice forwards, but falls away completely when more responsibility is placed on him.
Not true.
 

Vader

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We don't seem to be in a hurry to pick them either.

Frampton and Lynch were preferred.
Yeah, well... I don't understand why they're bothering to pick Frampton.

However, I thought this thread was supposed to be about Hamish & his inability to score a hit with a 1st round draft pick?
 

Vader

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Excluding players in their first or second years, we have a max of 6 players we could choose from.

Milera
Doedee
Jones
McHenry
Gallucci
Fog

Milera's injured leaving a max of 5. We're playing two. Wouldnt mind betting we end up with 4 before long.

Is our issue drafting or development? I'd place more blame on development than selection over the last few years.

Also, our gameplan places too much pressure on our players. Its sh*t. It screws their development.
Gallucci has been delisted, so there are/were only 5 to choose from.
 

Ozzie

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Disagree there, most predict us to be as worst as Carlton since both lost 2 first rounders but we recovered very well due to excellent recruitment with the late draft picks. The issue was after CM with Pyke forced to play the senior players because he was still trying to get into finals in 2018-2019 but the CM had a more impact on the playing group than initially thought and here we are in 2021* after a very restricted 2020* season when we had significant change to coach and playing group.
It goes back before Pyke and the bloody camp. 6 players we never got think about that. Great draft when you take Sam Siggins and Rory Atkins. when you miss a 1st and 2nd rounders.

The camp was a seperate thing. Tippettgate killed us. Then we took TRIGG back should have been sacked on the spot.
 

Vader

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If this normal ebb and flow you're talking about actually happened at Adelaide, people wouldn't be complaining. The 2018 season was the signal the footy gods gave us to start rebuilding and prioritising youth and we're now in 2021 and we still look like a club that selects it's youth through gritted teeth.

The other day you were on the board lamenting how Adelaide didn't hit the draft hard enough when it was contending. Now you're saying that not prioristing the youth is just a part of the natural cycle of being in a premiership window. You seem to be trying to have it both ways on this issue.
It's fair to say that the weighting given to experience has been too high at Adelaide, making it too hard for the younger players to move up the pecking order.

By the same token, our development failures arguably meant that these youngers simply weren't good enough to move up the pecking order, pushing the seniors out in the process.

We have a whole bunch of failures at play here...
  • Failure to draft enough youngsters, particularly from 2010-2015.
  • Failure to develop the youngsters we did have, particularly over the last 5 years.
  • Failure to provide sufficient opportunities to the youngsters who did show something at SANFL level.
These failures are most particularly notable with the midfield group.
 

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Doctor B

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You have to laugh at the posters who believe you don't change a winning team but then also love backing in the losing 22 because you don't make changes for change sake. They lives their continuity and they are still totally ignorant to how we managed to arrive with this experience profile.
Comparing our list experience profile with some less experienced teams.

Players played 50-150 games.

Adelaide 4
Essendon 11
North 11
Sydney 12
Gold Coast 18
 

ABAB

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It goes back before Pyke and the bloody camp. 6 players we never got think about that. Great draft when you take Sam Siggins and Rory Atkins. when you miss a 1st and 2nd rounders.

The camp was a seperate thing. Tippettgate killed us. Then we took TRIGG back should have been sacked on the spot.
We got M.Crouch, Cameron and Laird who easily covers those 1st and 2nd rounders we lost.
 

Ozzie

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We got M.Crouch, Cameron and Laird who easily covers those 1st and 2nd rounders we lost.
They should have been cream. We had to trade Bernie Vince to get Matt Crouch. Cameron was a damn rookie pick, as was Laird. How many rooks actually make it.
 

ABAB

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They should have been cream. We had to trade Bernie Vince to get Matt Crouch. Cameron was a damn rookie pick, as was Laird. How many rooks actually make it.
No, there is no guarantee the 1st or 2nd rounders would be a success. If M.Crouch, Cameron and Laird didn't get the opportunity because of the 1st and 2nd rounders draftee would they have developed into better player. Very doubtful hence why I said we recovered very well due to excellent development with the late picks and this isn't the cause of the list issue right now.
 

Ozzie

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No, there is no guarantee the 1st or 2nd rounders would be a success. If M.Crouch, Cameron and Laird didn't get the opportunity because of the 1st and 2nd rounders draftee would they have developed into better player. Very doubtful hence why I said we recovered very well due to excellent development with the late picks and this isn't the cause of the list issue right now.
Out of 6 players, I of them proven(Lions) 3 first round picks and 2 2nd round picks you're saying they ALL would have been spuds. Then you say we developed the 3 we did get. Your logic is flawed. Those 3 especially Crouch wouldn't been taken by us because we would have kept Vince. Rookie picks generally don't make it.
 

ABAB

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Out of 6 players, I of them proven(Lions) 3 first round picks and 2 2nd round picks you're saying they ALL would have been spuds. Then you say we developed the 3 we did get. Your logic is flawed. Those 3 especially Crouch wouldn't been taken by us because we would have kept Vince. Rookie picks generally don't make it.
Hence why I said our late picks saved us from having a list like Carlton, we played in finals and a Grand Final didn't we so our list isn't in the position right now due to the draft sanction.
 

Ozzie

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Hence why I said our late picks saved us from having a list like Carlton, we played in finals and a Grand Final didn't we so our list isn't in the position right now due to the draft sanction.
I give up... we HAVE A LIST LIKE CARLTON DID. I'm done, Basic math is beyond you. Blame it all on the camp if you want. I don't care.
 

Vader

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Out of 6 players, I of them proven(Lions) 3 first round picks and 2 2nd round picks you're saying they ALL would have been spuds. Then you say we developed the 3 we did get. Your logic is flawed. Those 3 especially Crouch wouldn't been taken by us because we would have kept Vince. Rookie picks generally don't make it.
I doubt we were ever keeping Vince. Yes, he made himself expendable when they wanted to get back into the 1st round to get Crouch - but he was already well & truly on the outer before that decision was made.

You're right that Trigg & Reid cost us 6x picks in the 1-2 round range. How many of those would have succeeded is anyone's guess, and it's a hypothetical discussion to be having. Any of those who did succeed though would be filling gaps in our own version of the stolen generation.
 

Vader

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Hence why I said our late picks saved us from having a list like Carlton, we played in finals and a Grand Final didn't we so our list isn't in the position right now due to the draft sanction.
Ummm.... we do have a list like Carlton & Melbourne had.

We're not awful because our late draft picks have been decent, and haven't sucked - but none of them, other than Laird, are genuine guns. It's elite talent we're lacking, and our success with late draft picks hasn't gone close to filling that void.
 

ABAB

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I give up... we HAVE A LIST LIKE CARLTON DID. I'm done, Basic math is beyond you. Blame it all on the camp if you want. I don't care.
If we had a list like Carlton we wouldn't have played in finals and made a Grand Final after the draft sanctions with both M.Crouch, Laird and Cameron all playing important roles.
 

ABAB

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Ummm.... we do have a list like Carlton & Melbourne had.

We're not awful because our late draft picks have been decent, and haven't sucked - but none of them, other than Laird, are genuine guns. It's elite talent we're lacking, and our success with late draft picks hasn't gone close to filling that void.
Cameron is a gun and M.Crouch is as well, won B&F and AA during the Grand Final years but has been poor the last few years along with a lot of players.
 

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