Review Hamish 2021

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dude316 said:
dogs, I want you to build that machine and have it on my desk by this time Monday morning. No excuses.
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Bit beyond me and my programming skills. Been to plenty of seminars where machine learning is being applied to all sorts of data though and it would certainly be a feasible use of the methodology.
 
MRB37 said:
Dunno how true that is, we were one of the first teams in the league to invest in analytics and bring in dedicated resources in that area.
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Might not be true but we're definitely one of the biggest investors in analytics/innovation. There've been cuts to the industry left right and centre but I know we have at least two dedicated analytics guys in our football department (Binuk Kodituwakku and Dean Dagan).
 

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But can the machine wear a tweed cap?
 
dude316 said:
dogs, I want you to build that machine and have it on my desk by this time Monday morning. No excuses.
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draft-machine-gif.1164394
 
Mr_Moogle said:
I think the fact he's suggesting Nigel Smart had real power in the organisation is what really bothers me.
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Smart didn't have much influence on football side of things. He was off in his own world with esports, etc...
 
If ours isn't archaic then it's certainly broken.
Midfields win games and we been investing 5/8ths of f**k all into it.
When we do we give them less time in the centre than it takes a 14 y.o. Virgin to get off.
 
70lethal said:
The interview said Pyke asked for speed which is different to asking for Gallucci.
At the time there were plenty of melts, 1 year in and no-one knows the effects of the s**t show that followed for the next 2 years.
Good environments produce good footballers. Crap ones spit kids out very quickly.
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Good drafting creates good environments. A winning environment is always a good environment. Good clubs have competent people in the recruiting, list management depts. Unlike us who has Riccuito and his ex manager mate Reid who likely sit down at one of Riccuito's pubs sinking beers and working out our grand plan for premiership success. Sitting in the bottom 2 or 3 clubs with the worst list for 2 years straight isn't exactly a resounding endorsement of their skills.

Add in Ogilvie who clearly until recently hasn't valued kicking skills, height, athleticism, football smarts and has tried to reinvent the wheel in relation to the fundamentals for a successful player with some very odd picks over the last 5 or 6 years. If I have to hear "that they are from a great family" ever again I will be sick. I couldn't less about their family as that is purely luck whether your born into a good family or a bad one. What I care about is whether they football or not. Are we picking a team of saints that lose gracefully or a team that has ability with a killer instinct.

Fix these 3 positions and magically our culture will improve when we start bringing real talent into the club. In saying that we do have some good talent, we just don't have anywhere near enough of them in comparison to other clubs.
 
Murray2503 said:
Good drafting creates good environments. A winning environment is always a good environment. Good clubs have competent people in the recruiting, list management depts. Unlike us who has Riccuito and his ex manager mate Reid who likely sit down at one of Riccuito's pubs sinking beers and working out our grand plan for premiership success. Sitting in the bottom 2 or 3 clubs with the worst list for 2 years straight isn't exactly a resounding endorsement of their skills.

Add in Ogilvie who clearly until recently hasn't valued kicking skills, height, athleticism, football smarts and has tried to reinvent the wheel in relation to the fundamentals for a successful player with some very odd picks over the last 5 or 6 years. If I have to hear "that they are from a great family" ever again I will be sick. I couldn't less about their family as that is purely luck whether your born into a good family or a bad one. What I care about is whether they football or not. Are we picking a team of saints that lose gracefully or a team that has ability with a killer instinct.

Fix these 3 positions and magically our culture will improve when we start bringing real talent into the club. In saying that we do have some good talent, we just don't have anywhere near enough of them in comparison to other clubs.
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Obviously your reputation precedes you, but could you at least try to appreciate what Ricciuto’s role actually is? He isn’t involved in day to day decisions and workings, he’s a volunteer on the board.
 
Murray2503 said:
Good drafting creates good environments. A winning environment is always a good environment. Good clubs have competent people in the recruiting, list management depts. Unlike us who has Riccuito and his ex manager mate Reid who likely sit down at one of Riccuito's pubs sinking beers and working out our grand plan for premiership success. Sitting in the bottom 2 or 3 clubs with the worst list for 2 years straight isn't exactly a resounding endorsement of their skills.

Add in Ogilvie who clearly until recently hasn't valued kicking skills, height, athleticism, football smarts and has tried to reinvent the wheel in relation to the fundamentals for a successful player with some very odd picks over the last 5 or 6 years. If I have to hear "that they are from a great family" ever again I will be sick. I couldn't less about their family as that is purely luck whether your born into a good family or a bad one. What I care about is whether they football or not. Are we picking a team of saints that lose gracefully or a team that has ability with a killer instinct.

Fix these 3 positions and magically our culture will improve when we start bringing real talent into the club. In saying that we do have some good talent, we just don't have anywhere near enough of them in comparison to other clubs.
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And again, people overrate the impact drafting has.

Drafting is purely a response to where the club is at. A club that's cheaped out on its development pathways almost magically sees their draftees begin to be underwhelming, or stagnate. Much like a club which has gone toxic through off field decisions. The inverse is true. Clubs who hire capable coaches/GM almost magically see their drafting improve.

You want to create a winner? History has shown the single most important thing to get right is your GM, head and assistant coaches. Get that wrong, and it does not matter what anyone else does, the club is going downhill, fast.
 
Golumless said:
And again, people overrate the impact drafting has.

Drafting is purely a response to where the club is at. A club that's cheaped out on its development pathways almost magically sees their draftees begin to be underwhelming, or stagnate. Much like a club which has gone toxic through off field decisions. The inverse is true. Clubs who hire capable coaches/GM almost magically see their drafting improve.

You want to create a winner? History has shown the single most important thing to get right is your GM, head and assistant coaches. Get that wrong, and it does not matter what anyone else does, the club is going downhill, fast.
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Sounds like we're creating a narrative where Hamish is a saintly figure, not responsible for the outcomes of decisions he makes. He makes inspired choices, delivers the goods, only to see his good work come to nought due to the incompetence of admin and coaches.
 

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mattymac said:
Sounds like we're creating a narrative where Hamish is a saintly figure, not responsible for the outcomes of decisions he makes. He makes inspired choices, delivers the goods, only to see his good work come to nought due to the incompetence of admin and coaches.
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I wouldn't say a saintly figure. Just a person who is too low in the food chain to make an impact on a club fortunes when more important things break. It doesn't matter if your car has pristine wheels when the engine is blown.

I would also argue the inverse as well. Should we kick out of this rebuild and look stocked with young high end talent who look like they're going to deliver, Hamish deserves little to no credit for that either. Sure he showed competency, but ultimately why we look like that is on our development pathways developing who we pick into high end footballers.

Like every recruiter to exist, he is brought down or up by what's around him. If you're confident in your GM, assitiant coaches and head coach are right, then go your hardest in judging a recruiter if a large volume of players are capping out at a below average level under them. That's probably the only point you could get s genuine read on it.
 
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Golumless said:
I wouldn't say a saintly figure. Just a person who is too low in the food chain to make an impact on a club fortunes when more important things break. It doesn't matter if your car has pristine wheels when the engine is blown.

I would also argue the inverse as well. Should we kick out of this rebuild and look stocked with young high end talent who look like they're going to deliver, Hamish deserves little to no credit for that either. Sure he showed competency, but ultimately why we look like that is on our development pathways developing who we pick into high end footballers.

Like every recruiter to exist, he is brought down or up by what's around him. If you're confident in your GM, assitiant coaches and head coach are right, then go your hardest in judging a recruiter if a large volume of players are capping out at a below average level under them. That's probably the only point you could get s genuine read on it.
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Hamish has had way too many fails over the years. Jarryd Berry, Zac Bailey, Georgiades. I could go on for some time with Ogilvie analysing every one of his picks for the last 10 years. My major problem with him from day one is that he has never placed enough weight and importance on kicking skills. He has mentioned as much in numerous interviews. He has also overvalued character. Sure you pick players with character but they aren't your overarching determinant. He has also undervalued height, pace and athleticism. If he was such a good recruiting manager he would have poached some time ago. Our current state of our list is on two men's heads. Ogilvie and Riccuito. The fact they are still employed by the club is a dereliction in the duty of the board. I know Riccuito isn't paid by the club, well not directly anyway. That's one saving grace.

I will say that Ogilvie has had nothing to do with list management, mismanagement of our salary cap, our lack of player retention and inability to attract good players from other clubs. That's squarely on Riccuito and Reid.
 
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Sanders said:
Obviously your reputation precedes you, but could you at least try to appreciate what Ricciuto’s role actually is? He isn’t involved in day to day decisions and workings, he’s a volunteer on the board.
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Roo might not be involved in the day to day decision making but he's certainly involved in the season to season decision making and appointment of key staff within our club.
 
Murray2503 said:
Hamish has had way too many fails over the years. Jarryd Berry, Zac Bailey, Georgiades. I could go on for some time with Ogilvie analysing every one of his picks for the last 10 years. My major problem with him from day one is that he has never placed enough weight and importance on kicking skills. He has mentioned as much in numerous interviews. He has also overvalued character. Sure you pick players with character but they aren't your overarching determinant. He has also undervalued height, pace and athleticism. If he was such a good recruiting manager he would have poached some time ago. Our current state of our list is on two men's heads. Ogilvie and Riccuito. The fact they are still employed by the club is a dereliction in the duty of the board. I know Riccuito isn't paid by the club, well not directly anyway. That's one saving grace.

I will say that Ogilvie has had nothing to do with list management, mismanagement of our salary cap, our lack of player retention and inability to attract good players from other clubs. That's squarely on Riccuito and Reid.
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LOL

I don't recall you ever saying we should draft any of those players you mention prior to their drafts, you're an eggspurt hindsight kinda guy.
 
Murray2503 said:
Hamish has had way too many fails over the years. Jarryd Berry, Zac Bailey, Georgiades. I could go on for some time with Ogilvie analysing every one of his picks for the last 10 years. My major problem with him from day one is that he has never placed enough weight and importance on kicking skills. He has mentioned as much in numerous interviews. He has also overvalued character. Sure you pick players with character but they aren't your overarching determinant. He has also undervalued height, pace and athleticism. If he was such a good recruiting manager he would have poached some time ago. Our current state of our list is on two men's heads. Ogilvie and Riccuito. The fact they are still employed by the club is a dereliction in the duty of the board. I know Riccuito isn't paid by the club, well not directly anyway. That's one saving grace.

I will say that Ogilvie has had nothing to do with list management, mismanagement of our salary cap, our lack of player retention and inability to attract good players from other clubs. That's squarely on Riccuito and Reid.
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I don't want to attack you personally, but you're clearly a clueless nuffy.

1) We know why we didn't take Jarrod Berry. Pyke wanted speed (Gallucci) and the recruiters wanted Tim English or Berry. Blame the coach.
2) Bailey was a reach at the time and Fogarty was a top 5 rated prospect in the draft. You would've melted if we took an unknown Zac Bailey over a proper SA prospect in Fogarty but guess you would never admit it.
3) We had Pick 6 in 2019 (McAsey) and then pick 24 (Schoenberg). Georgiades was Pick 18. Did you want us to take Georgiades at Pick 6 coming off a bunch of injury issues? Again, I know you would've melted if that happened.
4) You think height is important but character isn't? You realise 3 of our best players ever, Tyson Edwards, McLeod and Mark Bickley, were all 180cm or shorter? Do you think Caleb Daniel is too small? Lachie Neale is 177cm, Sam Mitchell 180cm, Jason Akermanis 177cm. All Brownlow Medalists. Tell me how many bad character players have been Brownlow Medalists recently?
5) Don't you realise that in our team review a couple of years ago that none of the list management/recruiting team were moved on? Clearly they're higher rated within the clubthan someone completely outside the 4 walls like you for a valid reason.
6) What mismanagement of the salary cap? We're one of the best managed clubs in that space. We were looking at ideas for getting picks for salary dumps because we HAD money in the cap.
7) Do you want us to trade in some 27 year old superstar right now and trade multiple 1st round picks in a rebuilding side? Or do you want to build the club up and then fill in the gaps when we have a solid foundation, like Hawthorn 2008-2016.
8) What's our issue with player retention? We've signed like 15 players so far this season and all our drafted/young guys are resigning rather than leaving back to their home states.
 
Crows 2024 Premiers said:
I don't want to attack you personally, but you're clearly a clueless nuffy.

1) We know why we didn't take Jarrod Berry. Pyke wanted speed (Gallucci) and the recruiters wanted Tim English or Berry. Blame the coach.
2) Bailey was a reach at the time and Fogarty was a top 5 rated prospect in the draft. You would've melted if we took an unknown Zac Bailey over a proper SA prospect in Fogarty but guess you would never admit it.
3) We had Pick 6 in 2019 (McAsey) and then pick 24 (Schoenberg). Georgiades was Pick 18. Did you want us to take Georgiades at Pick 6 coming off a bunch of injury issues? Again, I know you would've melted if that happened.
4) You think height is important but character isn't? You realise 3 of our best players ever, Tyson Edwards, McLeod and Mark Bickley, were all 180cm or shorter? Do you think Caleb Daniel is too small? Lachie Neale is 177cm, Sam Mitchell 180cm, Jason Akermanis 177cm. All Brownlow Medalists. Tell me how many bad character players have been Brownlow Medalists recently?
5) Don't you realise that in our team review a couple of years ago that none of the list management/recruiting team were moved on? Clearly they're higher rated within the clubthan someone completely outside the 4 walls like you for a valid reason.
6) What mismanagement of the salary cap? We're one of the best managed clubs in that space. We were looking at ideas for getting picks for salary dumps because we HAD money in the cap.
7) Do you want us to trade in some 27 year old superstar right now and trade multiple 1st round picks in a rebuilding side? Or do you want to build the club up and then fill in the gaps when we have a solid foundation, like Hawthorn 2008-2016.
8) What's our issue with player retention? We've signed like 15 players so far this season and all our drafted/young guys are resigning rather than leaving back to their home states.
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Sounds like you work at the club. Are you happy with where we sit? If you aren't you agree with everything I say so there's no point defending the indefensible. Your wasting your time.
 
mattymac said:
Sounds like we're creating a narrative where Hamish is a saintly figure, not responsible for the outcomes of decisions he makes. He makes inspired choices, delivers the goods, only to see his good work come to nought due to the incompetence of admin and coaches.
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I think we can say with reasonable confidence that guys like Gallucci and Poholke weren't good picks, but we also failed them a bit development wise as well.
 
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