Scape Goat Hampson Haters

[DustinsGuns]

Hampson is rubbish.

 

[cairo tiger]

hampson and grigg are rubbish

 

[nut]

Spot on - clearance numbers are meaningless, clearance differentials are more meaningful.

On the subject of a ruckman that is good at tap vs around the ground I don't really care. I want a ruckman that is useful at stoppages beyond the tap. When we played Collingwood and Macaffer was all over Cotchin the commentators were calling for a team mate to do something about it. If Macaffer was copping hits from a 200cm 100+kg man-beast every contest he would have had a much less fun time.

GWS's young mids looked so much more dangerous in the first few rounds when Mumford was blocking, creating space, and just generally putting the fear of god into the opposition. Maric does the same for us, and I think it's more important than taps, taps to advantage, or bloody marks. Hampson just stands still and watches after the ruck contest - it's embarrassing.

Nail on the head....

 

[tunksy]

With Hampson in the side, we have gone from:
Being ranked 14th in Hitouts per game in 2013 to currently 4th for Hitouts per game in 2014
Being ranked 8th in Clearances per game in 2013 to currently =1st in Clearances per game in 2014
Being ranked =7th in Centre Clearances per game in 2013 to 5th in Centre Clearances per game in 2014
Being ranked 9th in Stoppages per game in 2013 to 3rd in Stoppages per game in 2014.

But yeah you're right Hampson hasn't made us a better side at all.

find that really interesting actually. if only we could do better around the rest of the ground

 

[zimma]

find that really interesting actually. if only we could do better around the rest of the ground

Isn't that pretty much what every Carlton supporter told us already...

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

With Hampson in the side, we have gone from:
Being ranked 14th in Hitouts per game in 2013 to currently 4th for Hitouts per game in 2014
Being ranked 8th in Clearances per game in 2013 to currently =1st in Clearances per game in 2014
Being ranked =7th in Centre Clearances per game in 2013 to 5th in Centre Clearances per game in 2014
Being ranked 9th in Stoppages per game in 2013 to 3rd in Stoppages per game in 2014.

But yeah you're right Hampson hasn't made us a better side at all.

As you possibly already I pay less attention to them than you , which I have no issue with .
Do you have scores from clearances in 2013 versus 2014 ?
Both for and against RFC .
It appears from my naked eye that although often winning the tap his response time is poor and the opposition ruckman is a lot quicker to respond and create space for his players and pressure onto our players .

 

[KiwiTiger]

Great post mate.

The inflight entertainment from Korea can't have been good!

Haere Ra

 

[ibra]

I am enjoying the exercise of this thread, but I’d just like to make sure that everyone sees that Hampson really should only be compared with two others right now: Stephenson and Vickery.

I reckon I’d take Hampson for the first bounce against Geelong.

exactly!

We have three rucks at the present time
1. maric
2. hampson
3. orren

Maric is injured, orren is not far off a retirement village so the natural number one is hampson.

considering how hit and miss the big guys can be, he's the best of a bad situation.

i hated the thought of getting him, but it has proven to be an excellent acquisition given our current no.1 is out. without hampson, orren would be run into the ground and the situation we are now in could be drastically worse as we would rarely win first use of the ball (even though we regularly balls that up any). what turned out to be pick 32 is peanuts for a young ruckman who can't get any worse.

 

[_RT_]

Spot on - clearance numbers are meaningless, clearance differentials are more meaningful.

On the subject of a ruckman that is good at tap vs around the ground I don't really care. I want a ruckman that is useful at stoppages beyond the tap. When we played Collingwood and Macaffer was all over Cotchin the commentators were calling for a team mate to do something about it. If Macaffer was copping hits from a 200cm 100+kg man-beast every contest he would have had a much less fun time.

GWS's young mids looked so much more dangerous in the first few rounds when Mumford was blocking, creating space, and just generally putting the fear of god into the opposition. Maric does the same for us, and I think it's more important than taps, taps to advantage, or bloody marks. Hampson just stands still and watches after the ruck contest - it's embarrassing.

Last year we were +0.9 clearance differential, this year we're +0.3.

Last year we won an average of 37 clearances per game, this year it's 20.7. Now before everyone jumps in and says see Hampson has made us worse, the number 1 clearance team in the league averages only 21 clearances per game(last years number 1 clearance team averaged 40 a game), so clearance opportunities across the board are down not just with us, as the game changes due to umpires getting in quicker and getting the ball moving quickly rather than having stoppage after stoppage after stoppage.

As for Maric coming in, remember the plan all summer was to have Maric and Hampson rucking in combination, where Maric would do the crash and bash type of rucking to soften up the opposition, then have Hampson come in and jump over the top of them. At the moment we are asking Hampson to do the crash and bash type of work and he just isn't that type of ruckman. He is an athletic ruckman whose best attributes are his ability to jump over the top of the opposition and give our midfielders first crack at winning the contest, which they are doing. Unfortunately the team aren't using that dominance to put the score on the board.

 

[_RT_]

find that really interesting actually. if only we could do better around the rest of the ground

That's the crux of it as I see it. The ruck contest/stoppage play around the ground isn't a concern IMO, the major issue is the slow ass ball movement, but that's being discussed in other threads.

 

[_RT_]

Great post mate.

The inflight entertainment from Korea can't have been good!

Haere Ra

In flight entertainment was great on Singapore Airlines, it was the lack of english speaking TV in Korea that gave me the chance to think about things like this.

 

[_RT_]

As you possibly already I pay less attention to them than you , which I have no issue with .
Do you have scores from clearances in 2013 versus 2014 ?
Both for and against RFC .
It appears from my naked eye that although often winning the tap his response time is poor and the opposition ruckman is a lot quicker to respond and create space for his players and pressure onto our players .

I've tried to get hold of those stats but to no avail at the moment.

In regards to creating space and putting pressure on. Hampson averages more 1% acts than any of the 10 ruckmen in the poll. So I'd suggest that he is doing his fair share of the grunt work as well.

 

[Livonski]

E or F

Great thread _RT_

 

[TJTIGER]

exactly.... Two Hale Types are better than two Hampson types. The recruitment of Hampson is and will always be a mistake because he offer just the same as all the other goofy "tap out" rucks.

_RT_ use what ever stat you like but nothing will convince me we are a better side with Hampson in it.

I get what you are saying Nut but I think that Hampson will be improved by the presence of Ivvy on field and as a double I think this will be where they will both improve the squad. That does not mean he hasn't got areas of his game that need to be improved because he does. I'm hoping that with Ivvy by his side he can grow. But I guess time will tell though (fingers crossed).

 

[tigs2010]

I will reveal the players once the poll closes Saturday morning. FWIW Hampsons numbers aren't included in the poll as I asked specifically for posters to choose a player/s that they would take in his place.

Thank god now I can safely pick one knowing it's not him

 

[tigs2010]

As you possibly already I pay less attention to them than you , which I have no issue with .
Do you have scores from clearances in 2013 versus 2014 ?
Both for and against RFC .
It appears from my naked eye that although often winning the tap his response time is poor and the opposition ruckman is a lot quicker to respond and create space for his players and pressure onto our players .

Doesn't block for the mids like Maric either. Maric puts mids into space. Hammer taps it to a mid and they are under the pump.

 

[telsor]

Picked E, because he seems the best forward (important once Maric returns). Hitout stats would have swayed that greatly.

Not a hater at all...He's doing half of what we got him for (better standard of coverage for Maric as first ruck).

I do have doubts about the other half of why we got him...How he'll fit into the originally proposed plan of playing him and Maric rotating through the forward line (not sure if that plan is still there since Vickery got dropped because the 3 tall forward structure wasn't working).

 

[_RT_]

Picked E, because he seems the best forward (important once Maric returns). Hitout stats would have swayed that greatly.

I left the hitout stats out as it a) would make it a lot easier to identify the players and I didn't want names influencing posters choices and b) most of the complaints about Hampson aren't about his ruckwork, but more his impact after the contest.

 

[living_in_syd]

Lol should be a spoil other teammates marking stat

 

[TheProwler]

Considering a decent ruck only averages 12 or so disposals per game it proves to me that these numbers are little more than that, a number. Hit outs and deft touches directly to your mids advantage are what is a true reflection on a rucks value to a team. Hampson for example has been doing okay stat wise for his hit outs won but how many drop into our mids lap?

FWIW I reckon Hampson would be averaging close to 30 taps a game (which is good) but it's more his lack of presence around the ground that I think is his biggest flaw. Providing a target out of the back line is another crucial requirement of your #1 ruck and they don't even need to take the mark but bring it down to advantage. I don't se Hampson doing this a lot unfortunately or we are to dumb to kick it to him?

For the purpose of the exercise I will take C

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

With Hampson in the side, we have gone from:
Being ranked 14th in Hitouts per game in 2013 to currently 4th for Hitouts per game in 2014
Being ranked 8th in Clearances per game in 2013 to currently =1st in Clearances per game in 2014
Being ranked =7th in Centre Clearances per game in 2013 to 5th in Centre Clearances per game in 2014
Being ranked 9th in Stoppages per game in 2013 to 3rd in Stoppages per game in 2014.

But yeah you're right Hampson hasn't made us a better side at all.

We aren't the best clearance team in the league. We are 8th on differential. The only reason our clearance numbers are higher is because the slower game plan generates more stoppages, and hence more clearances.

We win 20.7 clearances per game but our opponent gets 20.3 per game (3rd highest in the AFL).

 

[_RT_]

We aren't the best clearance team in the league. We are 8th on differential. The only reason our clearance numbers are higher is because the slower game plan generates more stoppages, and hence more clearances.

We win 20.7 clearances per game but our opponent gets 20.3 per game (3rd highest in the AFL).

Never said that we are the best clearance side in the league. What I've suggested is that our ability to win the clearance has improved as a result of having a ruckman who we can plan around winning the hitout and also hitting it to advantage rather than having to go out and shark the oppositions hitouts. That is no slight on Maric either as he just isn't athletic enough to be able to jump over the top of other rucks. Last year we were ranked 10th in the league for hitout differential with -2.4 per game, this year we're ranked 4th in the league for hitout differential with +5.7 per game.

As for generating more stoppages and therefore having higher clearance numbers, we are actually -16.2 clearances per game on last years average. That is because the game is actually moving quicker as umpires come in and throw the ball up straight away to stop the repeat stoppages that occurred last year. This is shown when looking at last year, then the Dogs were the number 1 clearance team with an average of 40 per game, this year the number 1 ranked team averages around 21 per game.

 

[nut]

We aren't the best clearance team in the league. We are 8th on differential. The only reason our clearance numbers are higher is because the slower game plan generates more stoppages, and hence more clearances.

We win 20.7 clearances per game but our opponent gets 20.3 per game (3rd highest in the AFL).

yer dont let facts get in way of a good story.... and its very dangerous comparing stats from years gone by because the definitions change yearly.... you only have to look at contested possessions and what constitutes one to see how stupid some stats are.

I'm still waiting for Hammer to provide a marking option from a kick out... infact a marking option any where around the ground.

 

[cairo tiger]

Hampson may hit the ball but to who? If we dont have the nous to shark his hits what use is it?
A ruck these days is an all round player that provides options around the ground and from from kicks outs. Hampson is a monkey around the ground and falls over his feet. You cannot deny he has turned the ball over on many occasions so we avoid him. As a one trick pony he may be fine but unless we improve his all round play he is in fact a liability in many areas.

 

[sante]

hampson and grigg are rubbish

Hampson, Grigg and Petterd are rubbish